Forum home Road cycling forum Training, fitness and health

FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

dan.cavecpdan.cavecp Posts: 2,259
edited December 2018 in Training, fitness and health
Regarding Training.

I'm starting off this post as I think we all have some really useful information to give to this forum.

If you have any papers/documents/training plans which fall into and distinctive topics please email me and I'll ad it to THIS post.

Also intended for Newbies who are after some definitive advice.

My first topic is :

1. Doing base mileage training/LSD/Aerobic Conditioning.
[url=mailto:[email protected]?Subject=LSDDOC]Click Here to send me an email[/url] for a copy of it.

100 Miles on a roadbike for Cancer Research.

If anyone has any other questions which happen to fall into this area, please post here to ask.
you just don\'t want to know what I had for tea last night..
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  • There will be a links page on the new website but file storage is not something we will be offering for the time being (for various reasons including security and server space)
  • dan.cavecpdan.cavecp Posts: 2,259
    i can upload the documents on my webserver space on demon. no problem.

    steve, email me with your ideas! (and anyone else to boot!)

    100 Miles on a roadbike for Cancer Research.

    Visit the NEW Website!!
    http://www.rideforcancer.co.uk/news.html
    you just don\'t want to know what I had for tea last night..
  • road-runnerroad-runner Posts: 8,630
    I've just answered a question about riding with no hands in the Know How section and it's been suggested I copy and paste my comments here, so ... voila!
    http://www.cyclingplus.co.uk/forum/topi ... hichpage=2

    So far we've learnt who can and who can't (ride no-handed), and which bikes are easy or difficult (to go no-handed on). If you can't but want to, it will take time to master.

    CONDITIONS:
    1) Only practice on a traffic free smooth road.
    2) Don't start at too slow a speed as the bike will be harder to control.
    3) Avoid learning on windy days!

    HERE WE GO:
    1) Riding at a comfortable speed, change up a gear (ie cadence will be slower).
    2) If you have drop handlebars, put your hands on the top (knuckles up).
    3) Gently release your grip and lift your hands so that you're steering the bike with just a finger or two.
    4) Practice keeping the bike going in a straight line by steering with your bottom.
    5) One you're confident you can do 3 and 4 ok, let go with your fingers but keep your hands ready to grab the handlebars (like learning to ride, ice skate, etc., there will be a few wobbly moments!)

    Peeling bananas is an advanced technique, as are junctions and roundabouts. We'll cover those another time.
  • On a similar thought, how do you trackstand? I can quite happily peel a banana out on the clubrun but always end up unclipping at junctions/traffic lights (i'm one of those who stop (most of the time)when they go red).


    "Craggy Island Parochial House, Father Ted Crilly speaking..."

    "The survival of everyone on board depends on just one thing: finding someone on board who can not only fly this plane, but who didn\'t have fish for dinner."
  • TerrycpTerrycp Posts: 6,332
    I can trackstand but don't do it often, that'll be coz i'm not as good as it as i think i am though!!! [:D]

    Oh, and i don't want to look like a complete censored when i hit the floor! [:D]

    Win a bike in my raffle by sponsoring me on the Guide Dogs Tour de France challenge 2004: Just donate online and for every pound donated you will be allocated a ticket for the raffle.
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  • Steve TcpSteve Tcp Posts: 7,350
    quote:Originally posted by Terry

    I can trackstand but don't do it often, that'll be coz i'm not as good as it as i think i am though!!! [:D]

    Oh, and i don't want to look like a complete censored when i hit the floor! [:D]

    Does that mean you do it with both cleats engaged? [:0]

    Take care,

    Steve.
    Take care,

    Steve.
  • silkypedalssilkypedals Posts: 214
    http://www.cptips.com/toc.htm#table

    For training advice, nutrition, handling, and some medical tips, this site is an excellent resource

    Scott
  • RE: trackstand, cleats are a new thing to me, but i find that 8/10 i get away with the ts, by reading the traffic/junction from a distance, its the other 2/10 that worry me

    marty left 3
    marty left 3
  • GonzocpGonzocp Posts: 6,104
    Climbing

    There are several tips that I have discovered which should help you with your climbing technique. When you hit the bottom of a hill that is going to last longer than 30 seconds;

    1) Relax the upper body, don't grip the handlebars, just wrap your hands around them. Move your hands to the middle bars and bend the elbows slightly, if you need to you can move the hands out to open up the chest.

    2) Don't get worked up by the hill, just relax, chill, mentally picture yourself on the decent afterwards. If you are concerned by the amount of tarmac at your eye level then don't look forwards, look just in front of your front wheel (but not in a group).

    3) Use all of your lungs, make sure that you concentrate on exhaling and you will breath in naturally.

    4) Shift into a gear which allows a cadence about 5-10 rpm lower than usual.

    5) Pedal proper circles, your cadence should be sufficiently high that you can do it quite easily. If you pedal mash, you will keep on decelerating and then have to accelerate with each down stroke, which will waste lots of energy. A smooth pedalling action should see you gliding (only slightly less gracefully) up a hill.

    6) Never stand up*(see note)

    7) Once you hit the top don't slow down the tempo until you are at cruising speed past the top, otherwise you will slow down to a crawl and have to accelerate again.

    8) On the decent after a long climb, make sure that you keep on turning the legs round, you don't need resistance, but it does help clear the legs of lactic acid.

    *The only notable exceptions to this rule are i) stretching, ii) breaking away and iii) stopping falling off.

    i) In this country, you shouldn't need to stand to stretch on climbs at all, this is only really intended for climbs that are 2 or more miles long. Alpine ascents are a good example of when to do this.

    ii) You can accelerate when you stand up, but bear the following in mind; As soon as you stand up, your HR (heart rate) will increase by about 5 bpm (beats per minute). You will also start using your upper body. Therefore some of the energy that you would have used to turn the pedals goes into levering on the handlebars. When you sit back down you will also need to recover which will drop your speed considerably. Short gaps can be bridged on the drops, but larger gaps require use of the hoods.

    iii) This is reserved for really steep climbs or moderate climbs with luggage. With a triple you should be able to manage anything (I will excuse people who go up Church Hill in Wales - 33%, not a typo and yes it can be done!), with a double, gradients of above 15% are worthy causes. I have been up a 20%er sitting down though, so it can be done.

    If you do decide to stand though, make sure that you shift up a gear or two so that your cadence is about 20 rpm lower than normal cadence.

    Further to point 6. strengthening arms and core can improve your ability to climb out the saddle, and hold the bike steadier to apply power to the pedals most efficiently. Some cyclists do upper body weights (like bench pressing) and core exercises (like pilates - One of the great things about Pilates is improved flexibility and core strength without increasing muscle mass) to allow them to do this better, although this has to be balanced with the weight of extra muscle mass gained to the upper body.

    If you are doing a particularly long hill, you can shift position to accentuate different muscle groups. Moving forwards in the saddle and pointing the toes down uses the calf muscles more, moving back in the saddle and cycling with the heel pointing slightly down (or a level foot) will use the quads more. Mentally you can also pick a point to reach that is achievable, get there and pick another point. Don't focus on the whole hill, just bits at a time. Makes it a lot easier psychologically.

    The way to improve climbing ability is either
    - lose weight
    - increase power
    - increase ability to ride at threshold (perceived effort, "hard")

    Losing weight can best be achieved from the body first, and then the bike next.

    Increasing power can be achieved on the bike with strength exercises (big gear work) or gym work (e.g. leg presses, squats, leg curls)

    Increasing your ability to ride at threshold can be achieved by climbing of course, or simply riding time trials. In such a controlled setting, TTs over 10 or 25 miles, you can become more aware of your limits before "blowing". This awareness of your aerobic limits can then be applied to your climbing. This is also good for people living in areas without long hills.

    With thanks to everyone that helped from the C+ forum (especially Silky Pedals who wrote a large chunk!)

    If you are thinking of getting team kit then go here
    for the forum relay go here
    So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, good night
  • V.G.V.G. Posts: 10
    i was wondering what the lore is on cadence, i find 90-100 comfortable, 85 when tired but is it something i should work on? My legs are not immensely powerful (yet) and i have trouble with some hills sitting down on my double. Should i just rough it until i build up the power? Should i be concentrating on maintaining a lower cadenceto increase power?
    Who\'s that going around richmond park on a yellow and red Lemond with a red and white specialized S1?
  • PaulSBPaulSB Posts: 821
    What is cadence? Please. As a fit, 50, regular rider of 50-60 miles at 15-16mph should I worry about it?

    Paul
  • road-runnerroad-runner Posts: 8,630
    Cadence is the rate your legs turn, measured in rpm (revolutions per minute) for one leg.
  • (I can trackstand but don't do it often, that'll be coz i'm not as good as it as i think i am though)
    I`ve watched you guys do this at traffic lights its truly amazing. Wish I could do it, have the odd problem with one foot on the deck. Having said that watched a rider on the London to Brighton attempt a track stand had a wobble fell off and took a stream of riders with him, wasnt very popluar when they all got untangled. I rode off with a smile on my face and through what a plunker.

    where theres a hill some may have to walk
    where theres a hill some may have to walk
  • road-runnerroad-runner Posts: 8,630
    A plunker?
  • Good advice on climbing.

    I'd add that the more you climb the easier it gets. Find a hill that's tough and ride it whenever you can. There's nothing quite like the feeling of getting to the top of a hill that you once considered tough and saying to yourself, "I think I'll go back down and do that again."
  • GonzocpGonzocp Posts: 6,104
    And that I why I would beat you up hills every time chisa!

    If you are thinking of getting team kit then go here
    for the forum relay go here
    So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, good night
  • dan.cavecpdan.cavecp Posts: 2,259
    Now now, calm down gonzo.. don't be scarring off newbies with your fighting talk.

    Chisa, s'ok mate, he gets like that sometimes [:D]

    Can we keep this stick post on TOPIC please!!!
    you just don\'t want to know what I had for tea last night..
  • hey dan u still got that info on base miles etc. would like a copy please
  • quote:Originally posted by chisa
    don't wanna sound like a ***** but once i have got to the top of a hill there is NO WAY i would even consider going back down and doing it again.

    I've just come back from a cycling hoiday in the French Alps. The usual photographer was on L'Alpe d'Huez and we got talking to him. He said that Jan Ullrich came up the alp once before the TdF. On one day alone, Lance went up and down it 5 times. I think that explains a lot.
  • Good advice on the hills, been on a ride this morning some one stole my lungs and beat me with them. Scary part was the hill was only a minnow, god how my pride hurts.
  • Originally posted by Gonzo

    Climbing

    Read this with intereset. I am 49 and not started serious riding till last year.(although relatively fit - I think) Got into it and have decided to do some long competitive rides with serious hill climbs next year. I'm looking for a training program that can bring me to whatever my max limit is by next June.Any suggestions of how to put something together without invoking premature death?

    amateur
    amateur
  • quote:Originally posted by TonkaTom

    Good advice on climbing.

    I'd add that the more you climb the easier it gets. Find a hill that's tough and ride it whenever you can. There's nothing quite like the feeling of getting to the top of a hill that you once considered tough and saying to yourself, "I think I'll go back down and do that again."


    I took an HRM on a 4 week tour this summer to keep things nice and easy. It said I was using half the calories to climb at the end of the tour that I had needed at the start. Climbing makes you better at climbing.
  • quote:Originally posted by amateur
    Originally posted by Gonzo

    Climbing

    Read this with intereset. I am 49 and not started serious riding till last year.(although relatively fit - I think) Got into it and have decided to do some long competitive rides with serious hill climbs next year. I'm looking for a training program that can bring me to whatever my max limit is by next June.Any suggestions of how to put something together without invoking premature death?

    amateur


    Some beautiful cycling country round Chichester. Any loops through South Harting will be providing good climbing workouts.

    Last year, when I was 49, I tried the Lance Armstrong Performance Plan. Derision followed whenever I admitted to using it, but it works well. Definitely a train, don't strain system, and that means you can train for longer each week. But you'll spend more time cycling through Pagham than through Goodwood!
  • docsquiddocsquid Posts: 813
    I'm a beginner, so please be nice to me...I'd like some advice about climbing, and in particular about using the granny ring (on my road bike).

    First of all please see my post http://www.cyclingplus.co.uk/forum/topi ... C_ID=45446 for an explanation of why I use a granny ring. I am limited by my respiratory condition, but have improved quite a lot over the course of the last few months.

    What I have found about climbing is
    a) If I go onto the granny ring early, but into a fairly high (i.e small) rear gear, then it gives me the confidence to get up the hill, knowing I won't have to make a horrible clunky front change halfway up if my legs/lungs give out. I usually complete the climb in a gear broadly similar to the lowest on the middle ring, but knowing there are two or three more available is mentally comforting.
    b) I much prefer sitting down and keeping a high cadence than standing up. My husband sets off out of the saddle in a high gear, and I tend to catch him up by the top or soon after, as he is too worn out to pedal away from the top and I'm not. So although I'm slower on the climb itself, I'm faster near the top and coming off it. And I stay aerobic, which is important, because I can't recover from anaerobic exercise as fast as others. My average speeds certainly seem to be better when I keep it aerobic and use the granny ring.
    c) Lots of people tell me I shouldn't use the granny ring. But then I'd be trying to climb in a higher gear than the lowest on a double because my middle ring is 42, not 39.

    The question is, am I doing it right? Or should I do as some people have advised me - use a higher gear, get up out of the saddle and make myself hurt? I'm not seeking to be competitive or anything, just get the most out of my cycling in terms of fitness, and perhaps increase my average speed so I can ride better with groups.

    Cheers
    ____________________
    I need a great granny ring...
  • TLDNMCLTLDNMCL Posts: 2,779
    Docsquid,

    From what you say, you appear to be climbing fairly efficiently; nothing wrong with the granny gear if that's what you need to make the climbs achievable.

    It's getting up there and enjoying the ride that matters, not beating yourself to a standstill; If you want to become quicker up the hills, or have more puff left at the top, then regular climbing is the way to do it (Gonzo gives some good tips earlier in the thread - the breathing out bit I have found particularly useful; it encourages you to use maximum lung capacity instead of breathing shallow & rapidly, therefore there is more oxygen intake with each breath). It also goes someway to ease the 'burn' if you are really working your socks off.

    The other basic thing is to feel comfy with your position on the bike - if you are not comfortable, you'll waste effort fidgeting and probably losing your rhythm in the process

    Oh, by the way, regular climbs doesn't have to mean hideously steep ones either, some of the long steady climbs require as much overall effort as the sharp rises. When it comes to long and steep climbs, if the road is quiet, I know some people who like to "weave" - an uphill version of traversing a ski slope if you know what I mean, but it won't make you popular in a group!

    Good luck and keep at it.

    Mac
    Mac
  • quote:Originally posted by John N Davis

    quote:Originally posted by amateur
    Originally posted by Gonzo

    Climbing

    Read this with intereset. I am 49 and not started serious riding till last year.(although relatively fit - I think) Got into it and have decided to do some long competitive rides with serious hill climbs next year. I'm looking for a training program that can bring me to whatever my max limit is by next June.Any suggestions of how to put something together without invoking premature death?

    amateur


    Some beautiful cycling country round Chichester. Any loops through South Harting will be providing good climbing workouts.

    Last year, when I was 49, I tried the Lance Armstrong Performance Plan. Derision followed whenever I admitted to using it, but it works well. Definitely a train, don't strain system, and that means you can train for longer each week. But you'll spend more time cycling through Pagham than through Goodwood!



    Thanks for that. Next question where do I get a copy of the Lance Armstrong Performance Plan. South Hartng is on the regular circuit. The hill coming out past Uppark is tough (although I met a chap of 72 yesterday at the top who rides it regularly - if slowly) but to prepare for Letape presumeably I need much longer hills but not with the severity of incline?

    amateur
    amateur
  • GonzocpGonzocp Posts: 6,104
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... 51-4710822

    This Romeo is bleedin'
    For the forum relay go here, if you are thinking of getting team kit then go here
    So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, good night
  • kenbaxterkenbaxter Posts: 1,251
    quote:Originally posted by Gonzo

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... 51-4710822


    Be warned - although the training part of this book is OK, the other 90% is patronising junk - unless you really need to know how to mend a puncture, that Lance likes chicken for breakfast, how to put your helmet on, or that roads get slippery when they are wet. Poorly written, lousy picutres, not engaging - how's that for a top review!
  • quote:Originally posted by kenbaxter

    quote:Originally posted by Gonzo

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... 51-4710822


    Be warned - although the training part of this book is OK, the other 90% is patronising junk - unless you really need to know how to mend a puncture, that Lance likes chicken for breakfast, how to put your helmet on, or that roads get slippery when they are wet. Poorly written, lousy picutres, not engaging - how's that for a top review!




    A very poor, inaccurate and excessively negative review, I'd have said. You won't make money at it.

    Some bits of the book deal with things we already know. There is too much repetition. It says on the front 7 weeks to your perfect ride, talks up the 7 week program, delivers one, but then goes on to 4 and 9 week programs. Consistency would be nice. The point is, however, that the recommendations work. And work within the limitations posed by holding down a job.

    You could get to the same place by detailed study of Ed Burke's Serious Cycling, and Chris Carmichael undoubtedly owes a debt to Dr Burke, but this book is far easier to digest, despite its short-comings.
  • LloydycpLloydycp Posts: 184
    I really wish athletes stopped reading training books. They are ALL contradictory and full of "rocket science". Cyclists read them and get so many conflicting ideas their heads fall off !!
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