Football stuff
Comments
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Average England fan:
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I only watched a few minutes, saw England being surprised by wing play. Maybe someone should try that in the premier league.
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My opinion is that Southgate "understood" the thing that so many "supporters" don't.
International management is only about tournaments (and qualifying for tournaments). This is fundamentally different to club management.
If you're in a tournament, DON'T LOSE. There is no inherent responsibility to entertain.
Yes there was "balance", there was development of players (and in more than a purely football sense) but there were "moments" (English football has, for all my life been about "moments") but this understanding that one mustn't lose and Southgate's intransigence in deviating from it is the reason why he has the best record. The entertainment comes from the moments and the longer you stay in a tournament, the more moments you'll have.
Wilier Izoard XP1 -
If Southgate could have figured out how to avoid dropping deep against the better teams as games progressed, the exact same set of results would be more fondly remembered.
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I agree to an extent, if you take the four major losses in WC and Euros then I would argue Croatia 2018 and Italy in 2021 were the two games where this happened. France in 2022 was probably our best single performance under Southgate, we were just edged in a tight game and in the summer we were just outplayed second half by an excellent Spain side.
Of the four, I would say Italy was the match we should really have won, we were a superior team. Mancini did change things around at half time which changed the momentum, but yes Southgate could have done more to counter that perhaps.
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I would certainly agree on this. Southgate also knew the biggest factor in being able to give the players the platform to do well was to change the culture and perception of the team and the relationship to media and supporters. I think post tournament once Southgate knew he had lost the majority of the fans support (I do not count myself amongst them), he was intelligent enough to know his time was done.
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And the new England manager is.....
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Thomas Tuchel
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Man United pipped to the post again.
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Look, you never know what may happen. I can see the logic, Southgate was FA through and through and came up through the U21 system but couldn't get us over the line. The FA obviously think a guy with a big international coaching profile and trophy success is what's needed. However, Tuchel has fallen out with most clubs he has managed and the FA are notorious for favouring 'company men' which he quite cleary is not. I do no see this ending well.
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Seemed pretty clear last Friday that Carsley had either been told he wasn’t getting it or, more likely IMO, decided it wasn’t worth the aggro.
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Who's it going to be next year?
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Boris probably
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Ze futbol ist coming home...
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
They were wrong. Who was asking to play Palmer as CM and no striker? Most think Trent can't defend well enough and I didn't see the clamour for Lewis at LB. The selection was a horror show but at least it has forced the FA to see sense and appoint a coach with a track record competing against other top coaches in senior football.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I'm not making an original point here, but given the conspicuous lack of success using overseas managers to date, WTF has the FA been doing since 2016, when Southgate took over, in respect of succession planning? OK, I see the problem: "Planning".
But anyway, isn't the whole point of international sport that one uses people from the country concerned in the team, for good or bad? It's kind of the point of international sport, really.
But good luck to TT. History suggests he'll need it, and very quickly.
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I'd cut the FA a small amount of slack with regards succession planning. They are to a degree hampered by the lack of English Manager's in top flight football. They only really had Howe and Potter as serious options at present.
One option is to bring someone through the international youth system with little or no league football mgmt experience as with Carsley, but that is a risk as we have seen.
You could identify a young lower league Manager who has potential and try and bring them into the fold at U21, guys like Liam Rosenior, Tom Cleverley, Michael Carrick. Problem though again is will they leave a Championship club Manager role to join England, particularly as I expect their long term plan is a top PL job. I guess this is closer to the Southgate pathway and a good option, it is just finding the right person who ultimately sees the national role as their top job.
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The succession planning model of promoting from U21 level is rarely going to work, because you need to have a top level coach willing to fester for years coaching at U21 level.
I think Southgate was a bit of a lucky find, because he was and still is widely underestimated.
Carsley is clearly not of the same calibre. Perhaps he is technically, but he otherwise looks out of his depth and I could not see him persuading the top players of his tactics if he's in a pinch.
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I would agree with Southgate, which is why I mentioned the right person. He was happy to work for the U21 and learn tournament football as the top job was clearly his main ambition.
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Surely the inability of the English system to develop decent potential national team managers is a feature of "English Football" that should be reflected in the national team. When the English system failed to produce any genuine international-standard left-footed fullbacks circa 25 years ago, a series of right-footed fullbacks were used on the left, with varying degrees of success. If you can ship in a foreign manager because your system for manager development is cr*p, then why not ship in a natural left back if your system doesn't produce those, either?
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Is this an England should have an English manager comment?
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It will be interesting to see what the reaction is to Tuchel if he fails to get England to at least a semi-final at the World Cup and, if he isn't successful, whether those who wanted Southgate out will accept that maybe they were wrong.
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Yes, but not from a nationalistic viewpoint. It's a natural extension of England can only field an English-qualified left back rather than a German one.
If TT wants to become a UK citizen and renounce his German citizenship then he's welcome to join the party!
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It will also be interesting to see what Tuchels reaction would be. If there's one thing Southgate had it was a sense of duty to his national team. A foreign coach is less likely to put up with the abuse.
Basically, I see this appointment as a roll of the dice to get the best out of a team that the FA think should be winning things.
Let's take bets on how long he will be in post.
2 1/2 years.
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My reading of Twitter after the Euros was that England has a God-given right to win every tournament, playing like the highlights reel of the Brazil 1970 World Cup campaign. Falling short of this is obviously a national disgrace, and the sole responsibility of the fool in charge who clearly knows nothing about tactics, selection, man-management or timing of substitutions.
So I'd say that TT is set up for a glorious, stress-free career leading Die Drei Lowen.
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22 months.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I'm actually stunned that there is any need for foreign managers anywhere in the English game. There are literally thousands of people on the internet and radio phone in shows who seem to believe they know more about the sport than the top managers. Surely all we need is a development pathway that allows them to do it for a living? Maybe a football manager equivalent of the Zwift academy, have an online tournament of Football Manager with the best performer getting the England job and the next 92 get allocated to a club. It's amazing how the people doing it all their adult lives don't know as much as the fans.
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You looked up the date of the next world cup finals didn't you.
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Speaking of Zwift Academy, I did my first race of that "genre" at the weekend. I was dropped on the lead in to the main circuit! (As was over half the field.) Don't think that elusive pro contract will be coming my way...
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Of course I did! 😂
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
What about the expert pundits? Surely they should be able to manage a team on the side.
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