Euro 2024 thread

Scotland 0

(You can put that in one half of their group gave scores now)

Put it this way, if I was Scottish, I would front load my celebrations before kick off. As I'm English, I'll fall into the trap of "hope" at some stage.

Not sure, just have a sneaking feeling that we'll balls it up at some point. We have form for doing that.

They'll get found out again, basically, because Southgate has an attacking team with a poor defence that he will play defensively. So he is minimising their strengths and maximizing their weaknesses.

I would agree with Rick, I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest that based on the past 3 tournaments, the squad and results in general, that England are certainly top 5 current international teams ( I would say we are actually top 3). That doesn't mean we will win anything but if we get it right tactically and our best players perform near their top level then we will be very difficult to beat, and I only see 1 or 2 teams in this tournament being capable of beating England at their best, France and probably Germany.

Looks as though Maddison has already been cut from the 33 man squad, unfortunate for him but correct decision.

Southgate gets a lot of stick for his "tactics"

I've lost count of the number of times I've heard/read something along the lines of ". . . England will never win anything with Southgate in charge as he is too defensive/not positive enough/doesn't promote proper attacking football . . . " etc.

I guess as England manager (or manager of any international team), you ultimately have two "jobs"

1) Win the Euros

2) Win the World Cup.

Both of these are essentially knock-out situations.

Like any knock-out competition, the objective (by definition) is do not lose. I therefore have some difficulty in understanding the "too defensive" or "too negative" or "not attacking enough" comments or opinions because, as much as I want to see free flowing, positive, billions of goals footy, there has to be a greater degree of pragmatism applied if an international team is to win the major competitions.

Apart from that and the obvious improvement in results over Southgate's tenure, I have to say, I very much like what Southgate has done to/with the national side in terms of their work ethic, principles, media managment and humility and suspect and hope that this will form as much of his legacy as any on-field success.

I do have my fingers very firmly crossed for England's defence though.

The squad:

Henderson, Pickford, Ramsdale; Dunk, Gomez, Guehi, Konsa, Shaw, Stones, Trippier, Walker; Alexander-Arnold, Gallagher, Mainoo, Rice, Wharton; Bellingham, Bowen, Eze, Foden, Gordon, Kane, Palmer, Saka, Toney, Watkins

No Mcguire or Grealish

Southgate's football is dull as ditchwater - that has something to do with him not being popular. He's sucked a lot of the enjoyment out of watching the team.

Yes he's got a decentish record in tournaments but against that is he failed to win what was effectively a home tournament - he also had a ridiculously fortunate run to his first semi final which it is reasonable to argue his negativity cost us having gone 1-0 up. I think he's done ok but with this group of players he's not over achieved.

This "dull as ditchwater" comment interests me. Given the fact that Southgate has taken England to a Semi final and a final in two of the last three tournaments, as an England fan, it's a strange definition of "dull".

At 59 years old, I can probably say that England beating the Dutch in Euro 96 was probably the best time I ever had watching England play. It's been a bloody long time since we have come anywhere close to that until Southgate arrived and, apart from beating Germany (a) 5-1 unders Sven, it's been dull, dull, dull from England anyway.

In major international tournaments, victorious is rarely dull.

The "he's not won a tournament" argument again. Since he took over, only 3 manager's in international football have won a tournament. The idea he should have won a home tournament is also a bit idealistic. Did Venables win Euro 96 or even make the final? Yet everyone eulogises over him. That is not to knock Terry, he was a top Manager, it is more to point out the double standards applied to Southgate.

As for dull and defensive, we trounce the smaller nations in major tournaments under southgate (remember 0-0 against Algeria in 2010, scraping by Trinidad & Tobago), beat Germany and Ukraine last Euros, 3-2 away win in Spain in the Nations cup, battered Senegal in last WC and outplayed France for large parts in the qtr final. I would concede that in the 2018 semi and Euros final that when we went 1 up we did go too defensive, but a lot of Manager's would have done the same.

I think my point is that anyone being truly objective cannot claim Southgate is dull and defensive or has a poor or even on par record. When you look at results, style of play, team ethos, he is the best England Manager for 50 years by an absolute mile.

How did the 2016 vibe go again? Out of the Euros by Iceland, out of the EU by those who shop in Iceland? 😊

In fact let's take tonight. We all saw the space was wide - Iceland playing very narrow - the ball out to Gordon was on a lot. Yet we play 2 inverted wide forwards , a right footed left back and a right back who never seemed to overlap. So we end up coming back inside where they have numbers or Gordon trying to cross on his unfavoured foot.

As I say I get that he has created a nice environment, he's professional, he sets standards etc and I do credit him for that but tactically we are so basic and then his rigid positional play doesn't allow the talent to just express themselves either - the end result is we look slow and stodgy albeit generally defensively solid - hopefully tonight's defensive display was a aberration.

>= 1

Think this might be a tough watch, c.f. Wales at the world cup.