2024 Election thread
Comments
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UK is low tax by international comparisons, I think. It's higher tax than it was, but that's a function of demographics, higher debt service costs (*) and - curiously very rarely mentioned - the lingering impact of the damage caused by the GFC.
(*) Crudely speaking, the recent increases in tax (%-wise; not the absolute amounts driven by inflation) are going straight out of the door to pay higher interest on recent borrowings / re-financings.
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It’s roughly in line with rest of Europe tbh. A little less perhaps but because it’s got a socialist health system a bigger chunk of tax spending goes on that than on the continent.
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That goes back to one of Rick’s (many) hobby horses of poor economic growth though doesn’t it? We are fast approaching the point where funding for public services is going to have to go up or everything will be so broken it will be even more expensive to put right. The state of the country’s roads is a very visible sign of this - not enough spent on minor maintenance and many are now moving into full reconstruction territory as a result.
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Why is it always at election time the bribe money being thrown around is going to come from clamping down on tax dodging? If it’s that easy to get more money this way why hasn’t it be done over the last 14 years (and before because it is something all Governments seem to promise).
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Yes, have just seen that this is also going to be paid for by clamping down on tax avoidance. 🤡
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Imagine what they could have done with the money clawed back from tax avoidance if they’d started doing it in 2010. So far they’ve accepted there’s at least £5 billion per year they can easily chase down as it has been pledged to the national service scheme and the pension tax break. With a bit of effort there must be much more.
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There are a hell of a lot more business leaders than that, so the large majority haven't signed it 🙂
Also on the basis of which specific business friendly policies are they supporting Labour? Some could engine for a nasty surprise...
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Blair is hated by the Labour left nearly as much as Mrs. T. and unless you know better, never said that he was a socialist. If he was, he was clever enough to keep it quiet, but then again 'clever' and 'socialist' are two words you don't often see in the same sentence.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Blair said he was a socialist in his maiden speech in the commons, and a "democratic socialist" in 1995.
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Not treating Brexit like it's some sort of religion would go some way to being business friendly
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Not as smart as I thought then.
And there is still good reason to expect this lot to be more left wing than than the last lot.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Be getting the Starmer devil eyes out next
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I pointed out on various threads many month ago that Starmer is a staunch Socialist, I don't think he has ever hidden this.
It is also possible to hold a certain political view but govern with a more centrist approach that benefits more people.
As is probably obvious from my posting history, I am far more interested in a govt. and policy making that benefits the masses, not the few. Even if I was inclined to prioritise my own personal fortune though, the Tory party over that last decade has done nothing for me. I co-own a small business, we get absolutely nothing from the govt. no tax breaks, business support, and never have. The Tories have no interest in SME's, they are all about incentives for the 0.00000001% to enable them to cream off even more cash. I am also personally worse off like many people, less real term wage increases, higher taxes, a mortgage rise in line with catastrophic inflation.
The Tories have always played the card of being the only safe pair of hands for the economy, this is a complete fallacy. If you are obscenely wealthy, then yes you will benefit, but otherwise they have held back economic growth for a generation.
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Who does that? Brexit has happened so if it was a religion, the sect has been disbanded.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Old Labour, Old Danger.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
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I don't know what would open your eyes to the dearth of talent in your team Stevo. The country will literally run better without a government at all.
The greater good is served by a good clear out and a "New Conservative" movement that is distinct from the frankly lunatic racist wing that is currently infecting the Tories.
Whilst balanced politics is best, in the short term a complete electoral spanking is needed to eliminate these dangerous people.
I don't see that balance being restored without a catastrophic election this time around and, most likely, at least one more attempt to use far right populism to get back into power, followed by another bad defeat.
Polling among the younger cohorts already tells me this populism will fail, but I do predict that they will still try.
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I guess "high" and "low" are subjective terms, but the IFS (no obvious agenda, I think) seems to view the UK as being lower re tax than other developed countries.
"...the level of overall taxation in the UK – while high by historical standards – is fairly middling when compared with other developed countries. Given the scale of the tax rises announced in recent years, the UK may well climb some way up the rankings – though this of course also depends on what happens to tax revenues in other countries."
(IFS doc doesn't account for recent NI reductions.)
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This is patently not true, the ERG are definitely not disbanded and still hold significant sway over the Tory party. For example the recent rejection of freedom of movement for under 30s.
We've started the long road back to sensible relations by rejoining Horizon, and I expect one of the first things Labour will do will be a stream of small alignments that just make things better like vetinary certification and relaxation of import certification requirements for small businesses.
Won't be as good as being a member, won't be as bad as being as isolationist as we are now.
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As in dig in hang on to their last few pensioner votes. They're clearly not trying to win the election any more: just not lose to Reform.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
They will eventually get forced out but I think it may take two elections to finally rid us of them.
Us brits have never really been swayed by populism, except for a small minority. I would agree that younger generations are pretty much immune to it and have no interest in falling for its rhetoric. This isn't America and the same political rules that Trump applies just don't apply here.
This is a genuine point, I think Tory voters like Stevo don't actually like any of the current lot and do see the need for the Tories to return to being a sensible party (even if they don't like to admit it will take a Labour govt to force their hand). I think more people need to make a stand and get rid of the likes of Braverman, Hayes, Kruger, Cates, Patel et al and finally kill off the populist wing for good.
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Agree with most of this. Most of our European peers have slightly higher overall tax takes - somehow businesses still continue. Equally, having a lower rate hasn't been the massive advantage for the UK that some would like. In any case, with our population, debt interest, the need for increased military spending and the massive hole all public services are in there any fool can see that taxes are only going in one direction for the foreseeable.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
The current Labour lot hardly qualify as the 'A Team' do they?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
One Labour policy already having an impact:
An expected influx of over 200,000 private school pupils into a state sector that does not appear to have the capacity to take them. Brilliant...
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
No. Stop. It's too much
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
My favourite thing about the quadruple lock is the admission they've raised taxes by freezing the personal allowance
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Everyone bar a few die hard Remaniacs and few die hard purist leavers are getting on with their post Brexit lives.
Will be interesting to see if Labour do go back on their promises and try Europe by the back door. Sadly for them, the EU has moved on as well and will drive a hard bargain on anything.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Define "expected"
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