Today's discussion about the news
Comments
-
But the trouble wouldn’t have been by his mere presence would it? There were lots of other Jews present holding banners proclaiming they were Jews. That’s everyone else’s point. It was his antagonistic behaviour that the police were concerned would cause trouble.
0 -
No, none of that would have happened if he'd just stood there.
But had be not been Jewish and behaved as he did, trying to provoke a reaction from the police and marchers, the police would still have stopped him. Can you really not see that it was all a ruse either to get arrested or to cause trouble. The police constantly tried to de-escalate, and he wanted to escalate. If you've read the transcript, there really is no other interpretation of his actions.
0 -
It obviously wasn't his presence alone, it was his behaviour! Had he not been acting like a dick he wouldn't have had any bother. This has been pointed out to you time and time again, but once again you believe you are right and everyone else is wrong.
0 -
No one can be honest about why this conflict garners the attention.
Sudan was a British colony more recently and is an order of magnitude worse in terms of sufferings the brits were more heavily involved in Yemen. There’s no oil, there’s no resources at play (Sudan is rich with minerals needed for batteries). We send more aid to Ukraine.
This is only of interest to people because it’s Israel and it’s Jews. That’s it. That’s why it gets protests all over the West.
I can’t see why this isn’t obvious?
of course the man is behaving like a dick, but the point remains.
The protest is there not because of humanitarian reasons, as else they’d be more concerned with bigger humanitarian problems elsewhere, but because they’re Jews and they don’t want Jews in Jerusalem.
That’s it. Our annoying man got the police to basically say as much “openly Jewish” and now we’re talking about it.
0 -
There could be numerous reasons that isreal is forefront in people's minds:
- perhaps we're all racists and don't care what happens to Sudanese people
- isreal/Palestine is very asymmetrical, a powerful country with an openly western supported army is repeatedly dropping bombs on civilians to the extent that the country is rapidly becoming a rubble pile
- it's been in the news quite a bit
- there has long been a relatively small movement in support of Palestine, obviously that has grown with isreals recent actions.
- The history may be complex but the current day to day is simple, civilians being bombed by an army. Sudan is a civil war and to my uneducated eye, more difficult to follow.
0 -
I think your post is antisemitic.
0 -
The news argument is the wrong way around. It’s on the news people that’s what people care about. News reflects, not the other way around.
I mean, very recently we’ve had the former leader of the Labour Party, a key member in the UK pro Palestine movement, thrown out of his own party for anti semitism.
The “existing movement for Palestine” is a tautological argument and doesn’t explain why it garners more attention In the first place.
0 -
You seem to keep changing your argument. Are you arguing the protests shouldn’t happen and that they are anti-Semitic or that someone being stopped from deliberately trying to antagonise a protest in the hope of a reaction is evidence that British Jews are at risk from these protests?
For what it’s worth I agree that the obsession, not just of individuals but public organisations, with taking sides on the issue (overwhelmingly that Israel is bad / Palestine good) is very odd and simplistic. Both sides are behaving badly it’s just that Palestinian civilians are the ones that take the brunt.
0 -
Anyway, the most pointless ever Bill has finally past after who knows how many hours of parliamentary time. How many flights will they send before the GE when they will all stop? I wonder if Labour will scrap the legislation or simply not use it to avoid Tories accusing them of encouraging illegal immigration.
0 -
It wasn't his mere presence. He was baiting people and trying to set up the Met. If it was his mere presence he wouldn't have had a film crew and security with him and would have followed the instructions of the police like everyone else wanting to find a way to the other side of a large march. The whole thing is so obviously confected as to be unhelpful to the cause he seeks to highlight.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Where have I argued protest “shouldn’t happen”? I’m highlighting what I think the real motive is behind, the protests and the naivety with which people treat them. They are not interested in helping Gazans. The protests here do sweet fuck all to help. Nor do local councils getting their knickers in a twist about what their position on it ought to be. That position does send a “message” however to Jews who seem to always be considered Israeli representatives
I am also arguing the wind up merchant proved exactly what he set out to. Contrived or not.
0 -
What do you think he was trying to prove, and what evidence is there that he was correct?
0 -
His knowledge of the laws around protesting seems a bit lacking. He also seems to think that pushing a police office is not an offence.
0 -
That an element of the pro-palestine protest is anti semitic.
Hence him walking around, through the protest with his yamaka on. So for him, success is one of two things. Either someone lashes out at him for being Jewish or a policeman prevents him from doing what he's doing in case someone lashes out at him for being Jewish.
That's what he's trying to do.
The policeman seems to think to think that him walking around through the protest with the yamaka on will eventually lead to some trouble.
0 -
Why is he so special he gets to counter protest away from all the other counter protesters?
0 -
He's not, particularly. He's not counter protesting. You realise this right? Just because he's Jewish, doesn't mean we can know he's against the protest, unless he states it otherwise. This is the kind of racism I'm talking about. He's not a representative of Israel, nor does he immediately support it because he's Jewish.
He's not counter protesting. He's trying to highlight something domestic. Nothing to do with Gaza. Can't you see that?
0 -
He has stated he is against the protests and if you bothered to read the transcript you will see he was protesting by walking against the marchers. He just thinks he is special and protest rules don't apply to him.
The officer said:....."I have already seen you deliberately leave the pavement and walk against this march. You chose to do that." He added: "You decided to walk out into the road... and deliberately walk against the flow of people. This is quite clearly a pro-Palestinian demonstration. My concern is that your behaviour changed. You were at first on the footway, you were not causing any issues. You then decided to move into the road, not to cross it but walk against the flow of people."
The officer said: "You deliberately tried to walk through the group. I watched what you did, you were walking through them in a straight line." Pointing away from the march, the officer added: "When you have a route here that offers you no resistance whatsoever it is an antagonistic action to take."
0 -
That is not a counter protest. A counter protest is taking the opposing view of the protest. He's not making a point about israel gaza, is he? He's making a point about anti-semitism in the UK.
0 -
Obviously some people hold antisemitic views. There have been some pretty clear examples of individuals holding placards on earlier marches. That's quite a way from the implication that the entire protest is predominantly anti-Semitic.
How do you propose identifying which individuals will commit a crime before they have done so? If they wait for someone to thump him they've already failed to keep the peace. He wasn't just trying to cross the street as he claimed. He'd been observed repeatedly trying to walk against the flow of the protest.Turning up with some heavies suggests he has no intention of actually getting roughed up himself and just wants to bait the Met into doing something that would 'prove' his point.
The Met's restriction of his route doesn't appear very different from the way they keep opposing groups of protesters apart on other occasions.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Yes, it is a counter protest. He is protesting against the protests.
0 -
OMG no he isn't. He's not protesting. He's agitating to make a point. You all said it yourself. He's a wind up merchant. He's not protesting. He's trying to get a rise our of either the police or the actual protesters.
Where does he talk about his own protest? He's talking about his "right to walk"
Why can't people realise that being Jewish doesn't mean you automatically oppose pro-Palestine movements unless explicitly stated otherwise.
0 -
This seems to be the bit you are struggling with. The police were not struggling with it.
0 -
You compared him to Rosa Parks earlier. What qualifies as a protest now?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
lol the premise is the same. She got herself arrested to make a point. He got into beef with the rozzers for the same reason.
Believe it or not, the Campaign Against Antisemitism is about anti-semitism, it's not about Israel Gaza.
0 -
It's still a protest.
0 -
-
He is protesting about the protests. He believes they shouldn't take place due to antisemitism . That's fine and he has a right to do that. He just needs to do so in the appropriate place as directed by the police. I just find it a staggering level of entitlement that he thinks he should be able to protest without all the rules that apply to everyone else.
Next weekend he is organising a walk which apparently is not a protest. If only just stop oil thought of that, so many arrests could have been avoided by just walking instead of protesting.
0 -
I just 100% disagree. He's trying to get a rise out of them to show the problem. Hence the cameras etc.
That does not sound like a protest to me.
I think the fact that most people in the discussion conflate a Campaign Against Antisemitism as automatically opposing the pro-Palestine protests (aka taking a pro-Israel line) very revealing and indicative of the issue Jews face.
Either people implicitly know the anti-semitic element of the pro-palestine movement, or they're making assumption on what British Jews think because of their race (or both).
0 -
They paid for billboards with pictures of hostages on, so clearly believe it is valid for views on the situation in Gaza to be publicly expressed in the UK.
0 -
Of course it's a protest, and he is protesting the protests, he has said he thinks the protests shouldn't be allowed. The fact that he's trying to make an additional point because he knows he can get more traction out of it doesn't take away from the fact. You've clearly fallen for it hook line and sinker.
0
