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2030 is pretty soon after the end of the next parliament, so it's very much labour's problem.
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We can use the Brexit benefits to pay for it then.
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I did think about just cremating everyone as soon as they get to 65, but apparently it's not so good for emissions.
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2050 is the target, so 25 years.
Whilst I think that decarbonising the grid by 2030 is impossible, I haven't given up on 2050. Covid had a really damaging impact.
On the plus side, battery deployment is booming.
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Well quite. So why is Labour promising to decarbonise the grid in 6 years at a fraction of the cost that independent estimates say it will take? They must be either 'economical with the truth', financially incompetent, or both. Which do you think it is?
Which takes us back to my original point - does that really not bother you? (regardless of how noble a case you think it is)
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Of course somehow this has to happen as fossil fuels reserves are finite.
However your faith in the state - especially a Labour government to make the right bets on how to do it, is quite touching. If you think that just diving in rather than looking and learning from elsewhere is not a good idea then you are being a bit naive.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It's way more than a few billions, unless you believe Labour's cost estimates. Hence the need to take a bit of time, not just to spread the cost and make it affordable for people, but also to increase the chances of getting it right.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
We're talking about Aurora's estimates not Labour's. The report that you linked to.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
We've already missed the boat on being a leader. There are others doing it already.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I think there's a key difference in that even during Corbyn's time as leader, there was still a prominent centre left part of the party. At times probably to the detriment of the overall party performance.
There doesn't seem to be a single sensible moderate voice within the Conservatives now. It's all just nutters infighting.
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I already said whose estimates I find more credible, and it's not Labour's estimates.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Worth noting that the Tories are pushing to have zonal pricing as part of their energy solution. This means that prices where it is really windy may collapse whilst prices in London go up. The Tories think it will encourage generation near where it is used, but they don't seem to have noted that there isn't much wind in London or space for wind farms.
Labour are probably against this. They have presumably noted that there is only a 5% at most loss of power moving it from Scotland to England, and that wind turbines work better where there is wind.
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What is Labour's estimate for the cost of this?
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How realistic do you think it is that a solution to storing renewable energy can be found? e.g. converting excess energy to hydrogen or mass industrial batteries that can smooth out the energy profile?
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I foresee a time when current batteries are regarded much like leaded petrol is today.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
There is massive deployment of 2 hour batteries, because they can arbitrage the power market. There is not much for anything longer, because there is no money for it.
The hydrogen consultation has stalled since Boris resigned.
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I guess they must have made some sort of estimate but that's not what the article or report are discussing. It's comparing the Conservative Net Zero plan with the proposed Labour plan. The costs are broadly the same but the main criticism of Labour's plan seems to be the feasibility of upgrading the grid in 6 years. As a country we seem to have unlearnt how to do infrastructure quickly so I think that's a fair criticism. On the other hand a reform of the planning system has been mooted, which would be very welcome. Don't see that being done quickly either, though. In both projects late is better than not at all.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Interestingly I was looking at some policy documents regarding grants for renewables. Hydrogen boilers were specifically excluded on the grounds of not having sufficient infrastructure to support them.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
It takes 10 years to build a new transmission line. 7 years to gain approval (overcoming nimbyism) and 3 years to build it. Some say it should be done in the same way as HS2 by an act of parliament.
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Arguably there already is one, but every two but branch line had it's own Act of Parliament during the big railway boom.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Don't you just build 2 reservoirs, one at the top of a hill and one at the bottom with a pump and a turbine. Excess renewable energy pumps the water to the top reservoir. Shortage of renewable you discharge from the top through the turbine to generate electricity.
They do it all over the French alps for example.
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It takes quite a lot of water so needs some geographical assistance and then can't generate for a whole windless week. Also quite expensive to build for small returns.
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We have one in Wales
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
I don't see how you could ever have enough storage of that kind to mitigate long periods of no wind.
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If only we had some Alps 🙂
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
This Angela Rayner tax thing is an interesting little storm brewing.
Interesting that Starmer has backed her without seeing the tax advice she says she received after the event.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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Being a non dom does not constitute tax dodging. Its an allowed tax status.
Also this could end up being another great example of leftie hypocrisy. Rayner has been pretty vocal in calling for various Tories to resign, so if she is in the wrong, will she heed her own advice? Let's see.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
She said herself that at the time she was a carer, unaware of the intricacies of tax law and was acting on advice. Worst case is that advice is wrong and she has to pay a sum, which in the scheme of things (including what she earns now) is piffling.
This reminds me hugely of "Beergate" where the Mail, Express et al were baying for the blood of a big target. But like that, the difference in the scale & intent of the alleged offence only highlights quite how dodgy their own side are.
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