Today's discussion about the news
Comments
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It's not defensive, it is just starting to get quite uncomfortable to read.
Fwiw you don't understand the US anywhere near as well as you think you do, or you would want to move to Canada.
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U.S. poor. Or is that a lifestyle choice? And it is not only the poor that are suffering. The only people benefitting from the U.S. economy are the rich. The top 1% have 16x more than half the population. I linked to this inequality above.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
America is super rich. Even the poor are relatively rich.
their comfort with homelessness is a poltical choice but I’d argue it’s not a consequence of their richness. They’re rich enough to be able to afford looking after them if they wanted to.
Importantly is that since the GFC everyone in the US has got richer.
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No big secrets to US economic success - healthy dose of capitalism. Entrepreneurial approach, not over-regulating business (especially important sectors like tech), flexible labour force, lowish taxes. Etc. We can certainly learn from that...
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Mmm. Has anyone visited San Francisco lately?
How many of those people appear in the official salary statistics?
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The median black family has assets of $3500, and that includes property.
I consider the entire society, not only the top 1%. In fact, how wealthy is the U.S without the top 1%? Roughly 31%.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
There clearly are big problems with drugs and homelessness - which seem to be particularly prevalent in the more liberal/progressive states. California seems to be the biggest and best known example.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Europe is extremely lucky that fentanyl has not got a grip yet but I would not be smug about it as the reasons for its prevalence- cheaper and easier to make (doesn’t rely on Afghan poppy farms), far smaller to transport, more addictive etc - don’t change over borders.
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When I visited Chicago it was the same. In winter, at -16. The trains have people.qt the terminus status to turf people off when they stop running for the night.
I also highly doubt that a lot of the cash in hand staff who clear up offices, Starbucks, domestic houses and gardens register either.
So for you and me RC, we'd be 50% plus better off, less about 250k college fund your your kids, possibly quite a lot for long term health conditions. But to sustain that you'd need to turn a blind eye to the underclass that sustains it, and step over the unnamed shapes who have dropped out of the system entirely.
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Dude it's not fentanyl, or crack cocaine or any other specific thing. Those are all symptoms, and why the "war on drugs" is such a folly.
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Did anyone mention working conditions and annual leave yet?
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overdose death rate vs. state top ten is dominated by republican states (cdc data for 2021), california is way down the list (lower than usa average) https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/drug_poisoning_mortality/drug_poisoning.htm
it's clearly demographics, not politics, that drive it, being rural poor/hopeless is clearly a huge factor in many states, especially farming communities, but a fair number of the 'affluent bored' seem also to fall into addiction
people migrate to where the money/services/opportunity are, there's nothing new in that, it may be that liberal/progressive states have, or are perceived to have, more of those attractive things
downside is that for many the grass turns out to be no greener, though probably there's a better chance of someone overdosing getting a shot of narcan before they stop breathing
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
yep
also, legal oxycontin had a devastating impact in the usa, it's estimated almost half of the cases of drug addiction began with a doctor’s prescription
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Culture of prophylactic prescription.
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It’s absolutely fentanyl, especially in the San Francisco example you gave.
2/3rd of all drug overdose deaths were fentanyl last year.
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I probably should have said cities in liberal/progressive states. It's pretty clear that San Francisco has a massive problem, although it won't be replicated across the whole of California.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
If you are going to live outdoors, san gean, la and San Diego are a better bet than Seattle or Portland.
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Sighs patiently.
Yes, at the moment, but when I was there in 2000 and cycled past a tent city on union street it wasn't. It was something else. And in 10 years time it will be another thing.
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On average maybe, but I just googled the average pay for my role in the US and it's less than what I make. So maybe my case is an exception but I can't complain too much.
There's no doubt the US has issues like you say, but the flip side is the economic success and better living standards for many. That said, it remains to be seen how long the European social model remains supportable.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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I think that's wrong, but the disparity is growing. We know this. However .it's not as much as you think, because apart from anything else the exchange rate has changed.
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various drug use data by city...
https://americanaddictioncenters.org/blog/substance-abuse-by-city
phoenix az, top of the list for meth, and it's got huge social problems, i've spent a fair bit of time there, if you think it's liberal/progressive, try going there and calling them that
overall top city for drug use, omaha nebraska, overwhelmingly republican state
that doesn't make it an iliberal/reactionary problem any more than it's a liberal/progressive one
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Is wealthier being defined as income per capita? It would be more useful to look at measures that capture some of the costs too.
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For example, the US is 21st on the human development index. (Data from 2021 though).
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Agree about Phoenix. Some nice places around there mind you, and some good winter riding. There is not much else to do in Omaha. Personally I'd take meth to pass the time.
There is pretty good YouTube video blogger who visits places like that. Can't remember his name but if you search for Gary, Indiana it should come up.
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I don’t think people are getting defensive. It’s more the way you wave their ‘wealth’ around over there like it is something to strive towards. I’m really not convinced it is. I’m also not convinced that one of the multitude of police departments over there offering twice the average salary is a good thing. I’m more intrigued as to why a small force (just over 200 sworn officers) is needing to pay that much. NYPD starting salary is $56k, you’re using a fairly weird job advert to prove some point you think everyone disagrees with.
There are plenty of places I’d rather live and work than the US that, on paper, are nowhere near as rich but offer far better quality of life.
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I’d say 80-90% of our complaints of the state of public services boils down to not being enough money, which is really because we’ve had a stagnating economy, like the rest of Europe bar Poland, for one and a half decades.
The US hasn’t. I’m not advocating the US is amazing but the economy and wealth generation but certainly is. It is quite a departure from 10-15 years ago when the US felt about on a par with West Europe on those terms.
The crazy high wages versus the wages here really illustrate the growing, now yawning, gap in wealth generation and how rich they are. That matters for everything from funding big militaries to help police the world through to infrastructure spending, investment, the general dominance of your economy to shape the rest of the worlds etc.
Im not bringing up quality of life, you lot are!
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