Today's discussion about the news
Comments
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I thought all they had to do is say that new evidence has come to light and overturn the court decision.
Something legal along those lines?
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I think we are a long way past trying to find the perfect way to resolve this.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
You could do that on a case by case basis, but it would take time. I also think the guilty pleas might hamper that mechanism (not sure on that though).
The problem with parliament doing this is that it is a breach of the separation between the judiciary and parliament. Thin end of a wedge, one might argue.
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It's the right thing to do. These people deserve a swift recognition that their convictions are unsafe and the prosecutions should never have been brought.
This story has been around for years - I had just assumed it had been settled and all those wronged had been compensated. Clearly the legal system has been unfit for purpose here.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
There's no way the High Court could deem all the cases unsafe and revoke? Excuse my legal ignorance but that sort of thing seems feasible to my feeble mind. Any alternative is likely to be drawn out and have hidden consequences.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I think that the fact that the justice minister was going to liaise with senior judges before making any announcements was recognition of this, but it is (thankfully) a unique case. So far, in both speed and the noises the government are now making, it seems they are doing the right things to right the wrongs, albeit belatedly. One hopes there will also be cross-party reflection on the danger of the misuse of corporate private prosecutions (IIRC, the RSPCA can also do this), and whether that needs amending. That such a large and previously-trustworthy government behemoth could misuse their power in such a way has caught everyone out - politicians and the judiciary.
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The danger is that having done nothing to resolve the issue that has been known about for years something will now get rushed through because the TV programme has really put it in the public eye and rushed solutions usually aren’t very good.
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Pross the suggestion that this government would rush to do anything because of pressure from the media is outrageous.
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Could be quite interesting...
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
There's a contradiction here. Large corporations, even the RSPCA or the post office, do bad things. But this is a unique case.
Let me ask you, should there be legislation to compensate smokers?
What about rugby players suffering from dementia?
Or people who bought diesels?
See the issue? It's bad but not unique. Or even uncommon.
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I think (happy to be corrected) that this is the first UK case where a corporation has secured multiple fraudulent criminal convictions... sure, it's not the first case where a big corporation (or group thereof) has hoodwinked the public knowing there would be bad outcomes, but all the areas you mention are ripe for group action for compensation and giving the people doing the cover-ups a bloody nose. Well, not so easy to mount a group action if you died because of the cover-up, but smokers, rugby players and diesel owners haven't been forced into their predicament by the direct misuse of the judicial system.
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I think you are splitting hairs, because the principle is the same.
Worth bearing in mind that the current govt has about 10 months left, after 13 years of sitting on this, which is a majority of the duration of the scandal.
Fighting the good fight is a vote winner.
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Imagine what would happen if Ed Davey wasn't leader of the Lib Dems.
Just imagine what a difference that would make.
🤨
Good luck to her but I think there are bigger scalps available.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
True, but it's the biggest scalp in the Lib Dems. A low bar I know...
Saw an amusing clip from the commons the other day when Lee Anderson pointed out that Davey had demanded Tory ministers resign from their posts for making mistakes something like 30 times, so maybe he'd like to do the same 🙂
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Lee Anderson may want to take care throwing stones there 😄
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I could potentially see her winning but it never seems sensible to elect your MP on the basis of a single issue like this.
I’m surprised how little Davey is getting mentioned but I suspect he’ll become more of a target now the CEO has handed back her Honour.
The BBC seem to now be trying to make up for missing out on the TV drama by interviewing every person affected.
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I mean the Tories have had 14 years to solve it and it still took an ITV drama to do something and it’s hardly like they weren’t also in power when Ed Davey had a 2 year stint with some responsibility.
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It might do the Lib Dems some good if he did move on.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Who'd replace him? Need to get some more MPs for a better depth of choice first, tbh. Catch 22 etc.
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Give Tim Farron another go?
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Yes, Hislop not only knows the back story very well, he's in a good position to call out the hypocrisy of those now only suddenly jumping on the bandwagon. I don't think I've ever seen him as angry as in that segment.
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Joshua Rosenberg is on R5 at the moment. Worth a listen to his comments because he gives the legal perspective. I became aware of this scandal years ago via his podcast.
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Have only seen the clip, but was not particularly enlightened by Hislop, however much Jake Berry was just spouting platitudes.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
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I didn't think it was that articulate. I thought the fury rather got in the way. As I say, I've only seen the clip, which may not be representative.
As a general rule, if you are the one shouting, you are not getting your point across.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Meh, I certainly bought into the fury Hislop had, and I think the anger was the actual message tbh. This is not really a debate - the Tory guy was there trying to bloviate his own party's ostensibly great role in this, and that was rightly punctured.
The damage has already been done and despite Hilop's best efforts, as well as the various others affected, it has been ignored for a long time.
Anger, in the right context, is a force for good and this was a good instance of it. Anger is a key ingredient in moral courage, and Hislop is entitled to have that.
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