UK ISIS/IS Fighters

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  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Ai_1 wrote:
    CYCLESPORT1 wrote:
    http://madworldnews.com/muslims-killing-dogs/
    That's hardly on topic is it?
    Care to at least add your own comments as to why you're posting it?

    I think the point of posting this link is to highlight yet another insane and barbarous act committed in the name of that comic called the Koran. And that with 3.5million in the UK subscribing to its medieval teachings, it goes to prove that followers of this cult will never be able to fully assimilate into a Western Democratic and Humane Culture.
    Yeah, but then most religions are incompatible with democracy and humanity. I suspect we can find examples of most or all of them interfering with both to varying degrees.
  • mr_goo
    mr_goo Posts: 3,770
    Ai_1 wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Ai_1 wrote:
    CYCLESPORT1 wrote:
    http://madworldnews.com/muslims-killing-dogs/
    That's hardly on topic is it?
    Care to at least add your own comments as to why you're posting it?

    I think the point of posting this link is to highlight yet another insane and barbarous act committed in the name of that comic called the Koran. And that with 3.5million in the UK subscribing to its medieval teachings, it goes to prove that followers of this cult will never be able to fully assimilate into a Western Democratic and Humane Culture.
    Yeah, but then most religions are incompatible with democracy and humanity. I suspect we can find examples of most or all of them interfering with both to varying degrees.
    I cannot disagree with your response. But the point is that Christianity (in all forms) and Judaism whilst important to those that practice, it has very little impact on Western way of life and does not determine the path of government. Unlike Islam that is a way of life, subjugates women and persecutes minorities and non believers and is a strict form of political governance.
    As I keep saying I cannot see how it can sit in any Western Democracy without their being problems. And problems (understatement of the century) are what we are experiencing.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • pliptrot
    pliptrot Posts: 582
    Mr Goo wrote:
    And that with 3.5million in the UK subscribing to its medieval teachings, it goes to prove that followers of this cult will never be able to fully assimilate into a Western Democratic and Humane Culture.

    You have missed the point that virtually all of them have.
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    pliptrot wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    And that with 3.5million in the UK subscribing to its medieval teachings, it goes to prove that followers of this cult will never be able to fully assimilate into a Western Democratic and Humane Culture.

    You have missed the point that virtually all of them have.
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Ai_1 wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Ai_1 wrote:
    CYCLESPORT1 wrote:
    http://madworldnews.com/muslims-killing-dogs/
    That's hardly on topic is it?
    Care to at least add your own comments as to why you're posting it?

    I think the point of posting this link is to highlight yet another insane and barbarous act committed in the name of that comic called the Koran. And that with 3.5million in the UK subscribing to its medieval teachings, it goes to prove that followers of this cult will never be able to fully assimilate into a Western Democratic and Humane Culture.
    Yeah, but then most religions are incompatible with democracy and humanity. I suspect we can find examples of most or all of them interfering with both to varying degrees.
    I cannot disagree with your response. But the point is that Christianity (in all forms) and Judaism whilst important to those that practice, it has very little impact on Western way of life and does not determine the path of government. Unlike Islam that is a way of life, subjugates women and persecutes minorities and non believers and is a strict form of political governance.
    As I keep saying I cannot see how it can sit in any Western Democracy without their being problems. And problems (understatement of the century) are what we are experiencing.
    As pliptrot says above, the vast majority of muslims living in the west integrate pretty well and get along just fine. And when it comes to christianity and judaism not determining the path of government - you must be joking! The easiest example is the US which is massively influenced by christianity. Fundamentalists of all religions are a problem when it comes to democracy. There's a marriage equality referendum coming up next month in Ireland to legalise LGBT marriages. The "No" campaign is almost entirely dominated by religious lobby groups. I would say the prohibition of abortion in Ireland is almost entirely down to the catholic church. Integration of religious communities of all sorts with civilised, rational and democratic society is a problem. that doesn't mean we should exclude them. As far as I can see you are simply being xenophobic on this subject. Yes muslim extremists are a problem, but it's the "extremist" rather than the "muslim" that is the issue. I discriminate a little against religions too but I like to think I discriminate equally against all of them ;)
  • mr_goo
    mr_goo Posts: 3,770
    Ai_1.
    Maybe I am xenophobic, and the vast majority of muslims get along just fine in our democracy and are honest decent citizens. With the murderous extremists making up a minority. However do keep in mind that in 1930s Germany, the vast majority of the population were honest hard working people who just wanted to get on in life. They were subjugated by a minority of extremists that swept through the country and through Europe.
    What I am saying is that the 'meek' are always blown away by the extremists. That is the worry.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    It is not really a fair comparison, 1930s Germany was in a bit of a state to say the least from the sanctions placed on it after WW1 and so the people were looking for a solution. The UK has it's problems now but is nowhere near where Germany was back then.
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Ai_1.
    Maybe I am xenophobic, and the vast majority of muslims get along just fine in our democracy and are honest decent citizens. With the murderous extremists making up a minority. However do keep in mind that in 1930s Germany, the vast majority of the population were honest hard working people who just wanted to get on in life. They were subjugated by a minority of extremists that swept through the country and through Europe.
    What I am saying is that the 'meek' are always blown away by the extremists. That is the worry.
    I'm glad to hear you're now approaching this with a more open mind. As this is not what you were saying previously or what I disagreed with. Here's your previous comment which I took issue with:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    I think the point of posting this link is to highlight yet another insane and barbarous act committed in the name of that comic called the Koran. And that with 3.5million in the UK subscribing to its medieval teachings, it goes to prove that followers of this cult will never be able to fully assimilate into a Western Democratic and Humane Culture.
    Thankfully you now seem to be considering the possibility that "the vast majority of muslims get along fine in our democracy and are honest and decent citizens".

    As I said before, I personally consider all religions to be a problem, but I'm not about to condemn everyone who follows one or suggest isolationism or segregation is a solution. It never has been before.

    The Nazi example is a poor one to support the argument for segregation since that's one of the worst things they did with their power, they removed the people they considered incompatible with the society they wanted. i.e. jews, gypsies and rafts of others. Xenophobia and fear used to stir up nationalist zeal, a sense of self-righteousness and superiority are how the Nazi regime gained and wielded control. In the long term I don't believe you will ever prevent extremism or the damaging and often violent consequences of extremism by trying to over-control population movements or integration. Disarm these guys by engaging positively with the parts of their communities willing to converse. Educate, share, understand rather than fear, separate and condemn.
  • Rigga
    Rigga Posts: 939
    CYCLESPORT1 wrote:
    Islamic Terrorism: Why There Is None in Japan
    http://chersonandmolschky.com/2015/04/1 ... ism-japan/

    That was a good read, well done Japan. Sadly we've left it too late in this country to follow suit.
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    Rigga wrote:
    CYCLESPORT1 wrote:
    Islamic Terrorism: Why There Is None in Japan
    http://chersonandmolschky.com/2015/04/1 ... ism-japan/

    That was a good read, well done Japan. Sadly we've left it too late in this country to follow suit.
    Good
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Ai_1 wrote:
    [ Disarm these guys by engaging positively with the parts of their communities willing to converse. Educate, share, understand rather than fear, separate and condemn.


    yeah very idealistic but its a 2 way thing and all i see is us doing the giving and others doing taking.
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    mamba80 wrote:
    Ai_1 wrote:
    [ Disarm these guys by engaging positively with the parts of their communities willing to converse. Educate, share, understand rather than fear, separate and condemn.


    yeah very idealistic but its a 2 way thing and all i see is us doing the giving and others doing taking.
    What does that mean?
    What giving and taking are you talking about?
    Idealism gets a hard time, largely because it's so damn inconvenient when you want a quick fix. But pragmatism with no ideals at it's core ALWAYS ends badly in my opinion.
    Of course the wrong ideals are destructive too. My previous point, part of which you quoted, was with regard to the ideals that should be the foundation of our approach, and theirs. How you implement it is a different matter but the fact that people can't even agree that we should be looking at it this way is in my opinion a very scary fact. People are obsessed with addressing symptoms instead of root causes. It quite simply does not work. It never has, and it never will. But it's easy to sell.

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