UK ISIS/IS Fighters
Comments
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Most of the poor little misguided darlings are old enough to realise what they are getting into. I have absolutely no sympathy for them if they find it a bit tough.
Anyone who has gone to fight for these terrorists should be refused entry back into the UK and be returned back to the Syrian/Turkish border and have their passports removed. If they wish to fight for a terrorist state then they have no right to hold UK citizenship.
And on another point. What is the point of the UN stating that IS should be put on trial for Genocide? They are stateless terrorists. Surely execution without trial for these barbarians is the only justice they deserve.
http://news.sky.com/story/1448286/is-must-be-put-on-trial-for-genocide-un-saysAlways be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
Mr Goo wrote:Most of the poor little misguided darlings are old enough to realise what they are getting into. I have absolutely no sympathy for them if they find it a bit tough.
Anyone who has gone to fight for these terrorists should be refused entry back into the UK and be returned back to the Syrian/Turkish border and have their passports removed. If they wish to fight for a terrorist state then they have no right to hold UK citizenship.
And on another point. What is the point of the UN stating that IS should be put on trial for Genocide? They are stateless terrorists. Surely execution without trial for these barbarians is the only justice they deserve.
http://news.sky.com/story/1448286/is-must-be-put-on-trial-for-genocide-un-says
Well i feel sorry for (some) of them, some are little more than kids, at 15 yo you know nothing, you just think you do.
Would you feel so harsh toward a kid groomed for sex?
as for summary state execution, how will that break any cycle of violence?0 -
Perhaps the tide is turning. A mainstream politician- Home Secretary no less- coming out and stating the obvious. Even the Guardian readers are giving her support.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... tremism-ukTheresa May is to appeal to Muslims to help tackle extremism as she insists Britain must no longer tolerate those who fail to respect its values.
The Home secretary will say the freedoms on offer in the UK come with “responsibilities” to respect the way others live, democracy, equality and the rules of law.0 -
Ballysmate wrote:Perhaps the tide is turning. A mainstream politician- Home Secretary no less- coming out and stating the obvious. Even the Guardian readers are giving her support.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... tremism-ukTheresa May is to appeal to Muslims to help tackle extremism as she insists Britain must no longer tolerate those who fail to respect its values.
The Home secretary will say the freedoms on offer in the UK come with “responsibilities” to respect the way others live, democracy, equality and the rules of law.
At the end of the day, there is an election looming.
the tories have done nothing about the rise in FGM (neither did labour) or extremist speakers in uni's and nor do they plan on any new laws to curb anything at all, its just rhetoric to appease potential ukip voters.
When Pickles wrote to Muslim leaders after Charlie H, they shot him down and they do the same to May's pleas.
We are governed by international treaties, human rights legislation and EU law, like all politicians, they ll say whatever they like to try and win votes, the reality is somewhat different0 -
Jihadi Jam Extremist0 -
Ballysmate wrote:Perhaps the tide is turning. A mainstream politician- Home Secretary no less- coming out and stating the obvious. Even the Guardian readers are giving her support.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... tremism-ukTheresa May is to appeal to Muslims to help tackle extremism as she insists Britain must no longer tolerate those who fail to respect its values.
The Home secretary will say the freedoms on offer in the UK come with “responsibilities” to respect the way others live, democracy, equality and the rules of law.
Horse, bolted and stable door, spring to mind.
This Home Secretary has had 5 years to do something about Islamic extremism in the UK, and said and done nothing until a few weeks before the general election. Her statement on tackling the issue, as usual had to sugar the pill by also including 'right wing' extremism. Why? The EDL, BNP et all, are nothing, just idiots spouting off in the streets. They pose no security threat to the UK. They pose no threat of chopping off the head of a soldier. They pose no threat of blowing themselves up on the underground or in a shopping centre. So why all the time do politicians have to 'soften the blow' in trying to tackle the real big threat to the UK.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
Your response is confusing. I know little about this issue in geenral and haven't read what she said but purely in response to your words above it seems quite inconsistent. You start by saying it's been left too late to respond, that seems fair enough. However, you then finish off complaining that she seems to intend to also tackle other fanatics who are not currently causing major problems. So what is it you would like? Ignore fanaticism until violence starts and then react very quickly?Mr Goo wrote:Ballysmate wrote:Perhaps the tide is turning. A mainstream politician- Home Secretary no less- coming out and stating the obvious. Even the Guardian readers are giving her support.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... tremism-ukTheresa May is to appeal to Muslims to help tackle extremism as she insists Britain must no longer tolerate those who fail to respect its values.
The Home secretary will say the freedoms on offer in the UK come with “responsibilities” to respect the way others live, democracy, equality and the rules of law.
Horse, bolted and stable door, spring to mind.
This Home Secretary has had 5 years to do something about Islamic extremism in the UK, and said and done nothing until a few weeks before the general election. Her statement on tackling the issue, as usual had to sugar the pill by also including 'right wing' extremism. Why? The EDL, BNP et all, are nothing, just idiots spouting off in the streets. They pose no security threat to the UK. They pose no threat of chopping off the head of a soldier. They pose no threat of blowing themselves up on the underground or in a shopping centre. So why all the time do politicians have to 'soften the blow' in trying to tackle the real big threat to the UK.
No, if you're anti-fanaticism then you should be looking to discourage it as early as possible in all forms to stem growth long before it gains real momentum and/or becomes violent.0 -
I see no issue at all with allowing those on UK passports to re-enter the UK.
Veterans of the Spanish Civil War were allowed back in, although some were prevented at the outset of WW2 from joining the forces as they were deemed to have 'served a foreign power'.
These chappies differ significantly in their social and political outlook, but in purely legal terms they are behaving similarly.
They can be monitored; we are good at that. Some may make trouble here, but it will be limited in scope. People attracted to ISIS and similar set-ups tend not to be hugely bright or very well educated. It would make sense to put travel restrictions on people known to have involved themselves in particularly horrid stuff, but it is a war - and horrid stuff happens in wars. It is not Xbox.
There may also be issues in deciding (or judging) which element of which militia might be deemed 'hostile to UK interests or customs'. There are elements currently fighting ISIS whose only merit is that they are doing so. They may also represent some fairly hateful, undemocratic and radically theocratic views.
The UK has tried over a number of years to confront radicalism, not least through the slightly risible Prevent initiative... It will continue to try, but more with a view to garnering popularity than to finding a solution.
I'd let them back in and keep an eye on them. Not me personally, you understand. Some chap in Whitehall who speaks Mirpuri or Arabic or similar.0 -
Debeli wrote:I see no issue at all with allowing those on UK passports to re-enter the UK.
Veterans of the Spanish Civil War were allowed back in, although some were prevented at the outset of WW2 from joining the forces as they were deemed to have 'served a foreign power'.
These chappies differ significantly in their social and political outlook, but in purely legal terms they are behaving similarly.
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Yes they differ to the extent they are committed to the destruction of Western society. That's quite a relevant difference to those who fought in the Spanish Civil War. I'm not saying the issue isn't complex but to say you see "no issue" suggests a degree of myopia on your part. Keeping an eye on the number of people who may travel to these conflicts and then return would be hideously expensive even if possible.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Quelle Surprise.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/jihadi-schoolgirls-father-marched-at-flagburning-rally-anjem-choudary-10138591.htmlAlways be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
NO0
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Mr Goo wrote:
Doesn't really prove much beyond the fact that he was prepared to stand up to represent his views and that fringe elements at public rallies go too far.
It does suggest one of the girls has been raised in an environment where politics are an important theme.
The sad truth in all of this is that the girls were most likely trying to do something they believed to be right, they were most likely (assumption) reasonably devout Muslims and I'd suggest most likely virgins. They've used western freedoms to travel to a place where they have sacrificed those freedoms and are most likely already pregnant. It's a very sad story in my mind. I reckon it'll be nigh on impossible for them to ever make it home, unlike some of the male fighters who've seen through the lies.0 -
If you are going to comment on topical subjects, please do try to keep up to date.morstar wrote:....I reckon it'll be nigh on impossible for them to ever make it home......
They are home.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
morstar wrote:Mr Goo wrote:
Doesn't really prove much beyond the fact that he was prepared to stand up to represent his views and that fringe elements at public rallies go too far.
It does suggest one of the girls has been raised in an environment where politics are an important theme.
The sad truth in all of this is that the girls were most likely trying to do something they believed to be right, they were most likely (assumption) reasonably devout Muslims and I'd suggest most likely virgins. They've used western freedoms to travel to a place where they have sacrificed those freedoms and are most likely already pregnant. It's a very sad story in my mind. I reckon it'll be nigh on impossible for them to ever make it home, unlike some of the male fighters who've seen through the lies.
Politics an important theme at home!!! Choked on my cornflakes when reading that wet comment. It is the continual liberal outlook like yours that is contributing to rise of western hating muslim society. The hate preachers are allowed to convene gatherings on the streets outside mosques and proclaim death to westerners and death to western democracy, death to our soldiers. This incites the imbeciles that follow Islam to go to Syria/Iraq or to commit murders on our streets like the poor soul Lee Rigby.
When EDL try to protest against them, they are shut down by the police or assaulted by the anti fascist rent a mob. I have yet to see any atrocity committed by anyone from the EDL. So answer me this. How is it democratic/fair to permit a public gathering that promotes violence and death on our streets, but not to allow one that oppose this horrendous belief system. Love of hate him, it is worth watching Tommy Robinson's Q&A at the Oxford Union. Not entirely the most coherent speaker I have seen at these events, but very interesting all the same. He has left EDL but states that it is only a matter of time before the 'far right' do start committing murderous crimes.
And by the way, they are home as one other has put it. And I do not want to see them back ever. They should have their citizenship revoked. All of them. As the saying goes.... you make your bed and you lie in it. In this case its more likely to be..... you dig your grave and you lie in it.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
You're borderline preaching hate, similarly.
Or is that allowed,because it's your opinion?
As for taking them back. It might very well be easier to monitor / take some control over radicalised UK people if they're back in the UK.
Take them back into some kind of rehabilitation, and then be able to use them to de-radicalise potential others.
We all need to take confidence that being a liberal society is ultimately always going to be more attractive than a society like ISIS, and the people who head over and come back will eventually see that.
If you leave them outside of the UK, they can carry on to recruit others from the UK and help the terrorist cause away from prying eyes. Back in the UK there's a bit more oversight. There are enough stories of young guys heading out thinking it's all exciting and life-affirming, only to find out war is horrendous and ISIS aren't all that either. Does it not make sense to have those guys back in the UK explaining what it's really like, and how awful it really is?
So it's not so straightforward, and there is a practical element to it.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:You're borderline preaching hate, similarly.
Or is that allowed,because it's your opinion?
As for taking them back. It might very well be easier to monitor / take some control over radicalised UK people if they're back in the UK.
Take them back into some kind of rehabilitation, and then be able to use them to de-radicalise potential others.
We all need to take confidence that being a liberal society is ultimately always going to be more attractive than a society like ISIS, and the people who head over and come back will eventually see that.
If you leave them outside of the UK, they can carry on to recruit others from the UK and help the terrorist cause away from prying eyes. Back in the UK there's a bit more oversight. There are enough stories of young guys heading out thinking it's all exciting and life-affirming, only to find out war is horrendous and ISIS aren't all that either. Does it not make sense to have those guys back in the UK explaining what it's really like, and how awful it really is?
So it's not so straightforward, and there is a practical element to it.
Please show me where I am preaching hate. And if I am then it is certainly not to encourage the murder of innocents. Is it?Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
THE grim cycle of lethal Islamic fanaticism continues to deepen across Europe.0
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Really? My bad. Totally snowed in at work and home and tbh not watching the news has been a blessing. Only dabbled in here occasionally.PBlakeney wrote:
If you are going to comment on topical subjects, please do try to keep up to date.morstar wrote:....I reckon it'll be nigh on impossible for them to ever make it home......
They are home.
Tell you what, I don't reckon the Scots will vote for independence either.0 -
Your link details a march against a film that is/was perceived to be anti muslim. The father of one of the girls attended it and some people burnt flags. There is no direct link to his joining the flag burning and I'll be buggered if journalists didn't try to find one so I guess it wasn't there.Mr Goo wrote:morstar wrote:Mr Goo wrote:
Doesn't really prove much beyond the fact that he was prepared to stand up to represent his views and that fringe elements at public rallies go too far.
It does suggest one of the girls has been raised in an environment where politics are an important theme.
The sad truth in all of this is that the girls were most likely trying to do something they believed to be right, they were most likely (assumption) reasonably devout Muslims and I'd suggest most likely virgins. They've used western freedoms to travel to a place where they have sacrificed those freedoms and are most likely already pregnant. It's a very sad story in my mind. I reckon it'll be nigh on impossible for them to ever make it home, unlike some of the male fighters who've seen through the lies.
Politics an important theme at home!!! Choked on my cornflakes when reading that wet comment. It is the continual liberal outlook like yours that is contributing to rise of western hating muslim society. The hate preachers are allowed to convene gatherings on the streets outside mosques and proclaim death to westerners and death to western democracy, death to our soldiers. This incites the imbeciles that follow Islam to go to Syria/Iraq or to commit murders on our streets like the poor soul Lee Rigby.
When EDL try to protest against them, they are shut down by the police or assaulted by the anti fascist rent a mob. I have yet to see any atrocity committed by anyone from the EDL. So answer me this. How is it democratic/fair to permit a public gathering that promotes violence and death on our streets, but not to allow one that oppose this horrendous belief system. Love of hate him, it is worth watching Tommy Robinson's Q&A at the Oxford Union. Not entirely the most coherent speaker I have seen at these events, but very interesting all the same. He has left EDL but states that it is only a matter of time before the 'far right' do start committing murderous crimes.
And by the way, they are home as one other has put it. And I do not want to see them back ever. They should have their citizenship revoked. All of them. As the saying goes.... you make your bed and you lie in it. In this case its more likely to be..... you dig your grave and you lie in it.
So what is an acceptable protest? Animal rights, gay rights, anti globalisation, anti Iraq war, countryside alliance? Millions of people have attended rallies on those themes so I believe the right to protest is exercised by a broad spectrum of people. I am well aware that your response will be well they don't end in violence but two points, many of them do and also, many football fans have seen following a sport hijacked by lunatic thugs so it can be very easy for valid pursuits to be derailed by morons. Is it acceptable for a muslim to be offended by a film and protest to that effect? I would have thought it is. Therefore, the basis of my comment.
Did the film justify protest? I have no idea. But having free speech doesn't mean you should deliberately set out to offend with impunity and expect no response. Conversely, a better response is to ignore the hateful nonsense and let it be dismissed as the marginal view it is.
EDL, haven't committed any atrocities that I'm aware of no. But they do represent the historical position of a white Britain and as such are not fighting to gain something, they are trying to prevent something. But nonetheless, many minor atrocities are carried out by their like and in their name on a weekly basis through assault and vandalism. Hardly surprising the police get nervous when they mobilise.
I hate extremists but I also hate double standards. Some should rightly f off but simultaneously we have to ask why things have evolved as they have. I think western meddling in the middle east is a problem. Funny how it all revolves around oil? No?
I'm no apologist for extremists but you want to silence a group you disagree with but seem to support a different hate group without question.0 -
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/566791 ... rist-group
The rally was indeed organised to protest against the film, but it was organised by a banned terrorist group.
.The rally was part of a wave of demonstrations involving thousands of people protesting against a little-known film called Innocence of Muslims, which was criticised for ridiculing Islam.
Mr Hussen is clearly seen in the video of the London rally - organised by banned terrorist group Al-Muhajiroun - where more than 150 protestors clashed with police outside the US Embassy in Mayfair as they chanted "burn, burn USA" and "Allahu Akbar"
Some would almost have us believe that Hussen was asking the flag burner to extinguish it because they were in a smokeless zone. :roll:
BTW I didn't read Mr Goo as being a supporter of EDL. He just made a comparison of how they are viewed in relation to other groups who promote much more violence.0 -
i, also did not read Mr Goo' s post as either supporting the EDL or anywhere near preaching "hate".
the PC way in which the media protect the Islamic extremists and community (eg they are not called terrorists) BUT crack down on any alternative view is (one reason) why there is now a back lash against the Muslim community, people are fed up being told what to think, when and how.0 -
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You can't use extremist views to justify extreme views. You have to tackle all extremism head on. EDL get clamped down as their protests have an alarming success rate for violence. Muslim protests generate a lot of noise but little violence. Hence the differing response from the police. The EDL stance is also a well understood position that the police are familiar with dealing with.
Muslim unrest is a new phenomenon that people are still finding the best approach to deal with I guess. Nobody is telling anybody what to think. I regularly hear racist views followed by "but we can't say what we feel". Sure as hell you just said it mate, you just don't have the cajones to broadcast it because you know it's indefensible.
Don't call me wet for confronting your views, the wet thing to do is just listen to it and not challenge.
Context, I believe the Irish Republican cause had some validity but did not justify terrorism. Many did think it did justify terrorism as the situation was so clearly unbalanced. After many years of dialogue and working together, there are still many challenges ahead but widespread support for terrorism is simply not there, therefore the terrorists are a less visible and a far less active minority.
The muslim problem is significant because moderate normal people feel their religion and historical lands have been treated very badly by the West. It seems quite apparent to me that they have. It puts a moderate person in a difficult position because terrorism has no place in your life but there is an injustice to fight against. Mobilise and go on the street to protest and those with violent agendas gain traction by piggy backing on the movement.
Like it or not, we need to engage with the muslim world which doesn't mean acquiescing, it means finding common ground and then eventually the violent thugs return to the fringes of society as there is no movement that they can hide behind.
Alternatively, we take the Israel approach and take on a perpetual battle of "we shall not be moved". Didn't work for Maggie in NI, isn't working in Israel, won't work with radical Islam.
Do I think Britain should have bought as many immigrants as possible in to man the factories? Actually, I think it was probably a bad idea for social cohesion but, it's done, I'm 44 and have grown up in a mixed race society and the brown faced people that I grew up with are just as British as me. Just because I happen to be white, I can't look back to a time before the immigrants came, declare it was so much better and hold on to some ridiculous view that my life would somehow be better if the brown people weren't here and I have more rights than them to be here. We're all just an accident of birth. Racism has no place in society, extremism has no place in society. Extremism never takes hold unless there is something genuinely amiss to facilitate it.0 -
Lookyhere wrote:
I didn't actually.
I would swear on my own life that I read that the Turkish authorities had found them and sent them back.
But I can now find no reference to the story.
I am now thinking that Manc33 is on to something.
Edit:- This is what misled me - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/m ... n-istanbul
This Headline - "Three British teenagers heading to Syria held by counter-terrorism police
Trio, aged 17-19, in custody at London police station after Turkish officials stop their plan to join Isis following tip-off from British officers"
I cannot even blame Wiggle. Apologies.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
@Morstar
I am glad that you actually believe there is a problem, the Moslem problem as you call it. I'm sure Goo would have been branded racist if he had used such a term.
Anyway, a problem there undoubtedly is, the origins of which are complex. You are right that many feel grievance at the way the West has behaved, but it goes further than that. Some reject our way of life and wish to replace it with an oppressive regime. They are willing to carry out atrocities to this end.
Why does the Moslem population of the US not hold similar protests? Do they feel more affinity with their country than UK Muslims feel to theirs? Youngsters who have never been to the Middle East are amongst the most militant, why is that?
It is difficult to find common ground with a group that insists that any criticism of their belief or especially their spiritual leader warrants a death sentence.
I agree that not all Moslems are terrorists and I feel sorry for all the millions of people who are decent but have seen their religion hijacked by fundamentalists who have opted to take the writings of 1500 years ago literally as a way to live in the modern world. It is in their own interests to turn on the extremists and adopt a more liberal way of life. They face losing their faith to the terrorists.
Otherwise it is apparent that Islam is not compatible with living in a liberal western democracy.0 -
morstar wrote:The muslim problem is significant because moderate normal people feel their religion and historical lands have been treated very badly by the West
Yes but these teenagers aren't of Syrian descent are they? Isn't the significance of the problem more to do with many throughout the world identifying with a jihad that because of perceived wrongs against lands that have nothing to do with them or their ancestors.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
What I find strange, but more worrying is the psyche of those that follow the Muslim faith. Lessons and a way to live your life, written by one man almost 2 millennia hence and everything taken so literally. Many of those that subscribe to it are exceptionally gifted and intelligent individuals, doctors, scientists, engineers etc etc, yet cling to these ancient teachings as if their life depended on it.
But obviously the most worrying aspect of the muslim faith is that should one dare to criticise or insult it, then it is to insult all of that faith. And then to take up arms and rid the world of those that dare to speak out against it. To maim, rape, kidnap, execute and kill all in the name of something that doesn't exist and all to protect the reputation of one man, who by all accounts was himself a murderous barbarian.
We have not seen the same reaction from any other religion when their own have been brutalised. Where was the reaction from the Christian faith when 5,000 Yazidis were murdered? Where was the reaction from the Jewish community after the murders in the Paris supermarket?
No other major religion in the world has this delicate sensitivity of its belief system that results in a growing mass of murderous militancy that is turning the Middle East into a cauldron of hatred. A cauldron so great that to stand on the edge (Europe/Africa) will certainly result in 1st degree burns.
As a kid I saw men walk on the moon and watched Star Trek (live long and prosper). I thought that when I was a grown man in the 21st century I would see a world that would make the most incredible scientific advances, to reach out into the solar system and beyond. And we are, a bit. But imagine how much quicker this would be, how much more advanced we would be, if we could throw off the shackles of religion.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
Mr Goo wrote:What I find strange, but more worrying is the psyche of those that follow the Muslim faith. Lessons and a way to live your life, written by one man almost 2 millennia hence and everything taken so literally. Many of those that subscribe to it are exceptionally gifted and intelligent individuals, doctors, scientists, engineers etc etc, yet cling to these ancient teachings as if their life depended on it.
But obviously the most worrying aspect of the muslim faith is that should one dare to criticise or insult it, then it is to insult all of that faith. And then to take up arms and rid the world of those that dare to speak out against it. To maim, rape, kidnap, execute and kill all in the name of something that doesn't exist and all to protect the reputation of one man, who by all accounts was himself a murderous barbarian.
We have not seen the same reaction from any other religion when their own have been brutalised. Where was the reaction from the Christian faith when 5,000 Yazidis were murdered? Where was the reaction from the Jewish community after the murders in the Paris supermarket?
No other major religion in the world has this delicate sensitivity of its belief system that results in a growing mass of murderous militancy that is turning the Middle East into a cauldron of hatred. A cauldron so great that to stand on the edge (Europe/Africa) will certainly result in 1st degree burns.
As a kid I saw men walk on the moon and watched Star Trek (live long and prosper). I thought that when I was a grown man in the 21st century I would see a world that would make the most incredible scientific advances, to reach out into the solar system and beyond. And we are, a bit. But imagine how much quicker this would be, how much more advanced we would be, if we could throw off the shackles of religion.
Well said. So true.0 -
The reaction to 9/11 was an invasion of 2 countries with local deaths in excess of 100,000.
Israel responds to a load of failed rocket attacks by shelling and bombing an entire city of Muslims, with the biggest proportion of deaths being women & children.
Stop painting everyone with the same brush.
Half my office is Muslim and you wouldn't know unless you tried to shove a bacon sarnie in their face. You seem to spend a lot of time focussed on a disturbed minority with a view to painting everyone else with the same brush.
Either you're myopic or you're stupid. Perhaps you should take a look at history and total up the number of atrocities, both as part of war & terrorism and see which faith or group has the worst record. You'd be surprised (hint - Europeans & Christians come out worst, with some of the biggest genocides)
The Middle East is politically unstable, and has been ever since the botched colonialist period, and that instability leads to pockets extremism. Nothing to do with the faith. In the same way botched colonialism in Northern Ireland led to instability and thus terrorism.0
