Who's the Greatest - English Speaking Rider?
Comments
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No tA Doctor wrote:So what points system are we using to weight this?
I've not got a lot of love for the current UCI points, and as we're talking "greatest ever" I certainly don't think any podiums should count, except for the GTs. Like Rich, I'd want some points for the GT jerseys.
So what's the breakdown?
GC: TdF, Vuelta & Giro, one week races.
Monuments & Rainbow stripes
Classics
Jerseys
GT stages
Any other wins count? I'd be inclined to say no.
Bonus points for historic records, triple crowns, successful defences of a title? Or should that be left as a tie-breaker factor?
Not sure what points I'd hand out for any of those, interested to see how others weight them.
My points system was pretty crude:
Only victories counted
Points were the same as for the current World Tour
Only races currently on WT counted except...
...Worlds/Olympics: RR 100pts, TT 50pts
Only stages in GTs counted
KOM/Points jerseys: Tour 80pts, Giro/Vuelta 50
It's flawed, of course, but wasn't going to spend more than ten minutes on it.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:So what points system are we using to weight this?
I've not got a lot of love for the current UCI points, and as we're talking "greatest ever" I certainly don't think any podiums should count, except for the GTs. Like Rich, I'd want some points for the GT jerseys.
So what's the breakdown?
GC: TdF, Vuelta & Giro, one week races.
Monuments & Rainbow stripes
Classics
Jerseys
GT stages
Any other wins count? I'd be inclined to say no.
Bonus points for historic records, triple crowns, successful defences of a title? Or should that be left as a tie-breaker factor?
Not sure what points I'd hand out for any of those, interested to see how others weight them.
My points system was pretty crude:
Only victories counted
Points were the same as for the current World Tour
Only races currently on WT counted except...
...Worlds/Olympics: RR 100pts, TT 50pts
Only stages in GTs counted
KOM/Points jerseys: Tour 80pts, Giro/Vuelta 50
It's flawed, of course, but wasn't going to spend more than ten minutes on it.
C+ Must do better.
I demand a full spreadsheet with columns for different types of race/point award. Think you may have weighted the jerseys a little highly in relation to the Worlds there though.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:Any other wins count? I'd be inclined to say no.
Fundamentally, are we including going round in circles?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
TailWindHome wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:Any other wins count? I'd be inclined to say no.
Fundamentally, are we including going round in circles?
Only if the circle is the size of France, Spain or Italy.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:TailWindHome wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:Any other wins count? I'd be inclined to say no.
Fundamentally, are we including going round in circles?
Only if the circle is the size of France, Spain or Italy.
But not the size of a velodrome.0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:TailWindHome wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:Any other wins count? I'd be inclined to say no.
Fundamentally, are we including going round in circles?
Only if the circle is the size of France, Spain or Italy.
But not the size of a velodrome.
That would be an incredibly big velodrome.
I will allow races that end with a couple of laps of a velodrome though, as long as they didn't start there as well.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
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Nicked from the boards.ie forum earlier today..
/thread'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
So, you are saying trck riding is not a valid cycle sport, or is it only being left out because it favours your argument?
Just asking.
Merckx
Boardman
Moser
etc,etc,etc, all thought it worthy of effort.0 -
mike6 wrote:So, you are saying trck riding is not a valid cycle sport, or is it only being left out because it favours your argument?
Just asking.
Merckx
Boardman
Moser
etc,etc,etc, all thought it worthy of effort.0 -
mike6 wrote:So, you are saying trck riding is not a valid cycle sport, or is it only being left out because it favours your argument?
Just asking.
Merckx
Boardman
Moser
etc,etc,etc, all thought it worthy of effort.
I think you need to treat them as entirely separate sports. If all the riders take part in the road events, but 1% do the track, then what happens on the track is broadly irrelevant in terms of the road.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
The World Championship Jersey's are different for each Discipline. :roll:Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720
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I'd suggest that the only 'track' event which counts is breaking the Hour Record (under any rules).
This should carry the equivalent points of a Vuelta/Giro GC win.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
RichN95 wrote:I made up my own points system (broadly based on the World Tour* system and counting wins only) and the computer said:
1. Kelly 3506
2. Roche 1062
3. LeMond 1016
4. Cavendish 998
5. Evans 786
6. McEwen 752
7. Wiggins 706
8. Hampsten 588
9. Simpson 532
10. Anderson 436
11. R Millar 422
12. Armstrong 300
13. Hoban 272
14. Farrar 260
15. O'Grady 220
16. Hesjedal 186
17. D Millar 176
This is not my opinion - it's Microsoft Excel's - so blame Bill Gates
(Note: 'Bad Armstrong' would have scored 2400, 'Bad David Millar' 226. 'Bad Hincapie' & 'Bad Leipheimer' didn't score that highly)
*Worlds & Olympics (RR & TT) and GT jerseys scored points
I agree with your computerIt's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
deejay wrote:The World Championship Jersey's are different for each Discipline. :roll:
So road TT World and Olympic titles dont count then?? Or TT stage victories?
The post said Greatest English speaking rider. If the so called 99% that dont ride the track, as stated by another poster, just save themselves for the road events surely that makes the 1% who also ride the track even better?0 -
mike6 wrote:
The post said Greatest English speaking rider. If the so called 99% that dont ride the track, as stated by another poster, just save themselves for the road events surely that makes the 1% who also ride the track even better?
Nah. To me, if you're a track champion you may as well be a badminton champion for all the relevance it has to the road.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
I shall look forward, then, to seeing Nathan Robertson doing a wiggins challenging for the tour.0
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iainf72 wrote:mike6 wrote:
The post said Greatest English speaking rider. If the so called 99% that dont ride the track, as stated by another poster, just save themselves for the road events surely that makes the 1% who also ride the track even better?
Nah. To me, if you're a track champion you may as well be a badminton champion for all the relevance it has to the road.
I say again.......the original post made no mention of road exclusivity. What next??? Only long breakaway wins? How long dous the breakaway have to be away before it counts? Or, only mountain top finish wins? Come on, track cycling is just as demanding, and just as painful to train for.0 -
mike6 wrote:The post said Greatest English speaking rider.
I would tend to agree, but then this part of the forum is "Road - Pro Race".0 -
mike6 wrote:iainf72 wrote:mike6 wrote:
The post said Greatest English speaking rider. If the so called 99% that dont ride the track, as stated by another poster, just save themselves for the road events surely that makes the 1% who also ride the track even better?
Nah. To me, if you're a track champion you may as well be a badminton champion for all the relevance it has to the road.
I say again.......the original post made no mention of road exclusivity. What next??? Only long breakaway wins? How long dous the breakaway have to be away before it counts? Or, only mountain top finish wins? Come on, track cycling is just as demanding, and just as painful to train for.
Firstly, as pointed out above "Road > Pro Race" probably gives a clue.
Secondly, we're clearly making this up as we go along.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:mike6 wrote:iainf72 wrote:mike6 wrote:
The post said Greatest English speaking rider. If the so called 99% that dont ride the track, as stated by another poster, just save themselves for the road events surely that makes the 1% who also ride the track even better?
Nah. To me, if you're a track champion you may as well be a badminton champion for all the relevance it has to the road.
I say again.......the original post made no mention of road exclusivity. What next??? Only long breakaway wins? How long dous the breakaway have to be away before it counts? Or, only mountain top finish wins? Come on, track cycling is just as demanding, and just as painful to train for.
Firstly, as pointed out above "Road > Pro Race" probably gives a clue.
Secondly, we're clearly making this up as we go along.
Quite, so what is to stop me doing the same.0 -
mike6 wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:mike6 wrote:iainf72 wrote:mike6 wrote:
The post said Greatest English speaking rider. If the so called 99% that dont ride the track, as stated by another poster, just save themselves for the road events surely that makes the 1% who also ride the track even better?
Nah. To me, if you're a track champion you may as well be a badminton champion for all the relevance it has to the road.
I say again.......the original post made no mention of road exclusivity. What next??? Only long breakaway wins? How long dous the breakaway have to be away before it counts? Or, only mountain top finish wins? Come on, track cycling is just as demanding, and just as painful to train for.
Firstly, as pointed out above "Road > Pro Race" probably gives a clue.
Secondly, we're clearly making this up as we go along.
Quite, so what is to stop me doing the same.
Nothing whatsoever. But there's nothing to stop the rest of us disagreeing with you either :-)Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:mike6 wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:mike6 wrote:iainf72 wrote:mike6 wrote:
The post said Greatest English speaking rider. If the so called 99% that dont ride the track, as stated by another poster, just save themselves for the road events surely that makes the 1% who also ride the track even better?
Nah. To me, if you're a track champion you may as well be a badminton champion for all the relevance it has to the road.
I say again.......the original post made no mention of road exclusivity. What next??? Only long breakaway wins? How long dous the breakaway have to be away before it counts? Or, only mountain top finish wins? Come on, track cycling is just as demanding, and just as painful to train for.
Firstly, as pointed out above "Road > Pro Race" probably gives a clue.
Secondly, we're clearly making this up as we go along.
Quite, so what is to stop me doing the same.
Nothing whatsoever. But there's nothing to stop the rest of us disagreeing with you either :-)
The rest of us????
I think not. You have your opinion, I have mine. That is what forums are about.
Don't try and suggest its the rest of the forum posters versus little old me.0 -
mike6 wrote:
The rest of us????
I think not. You have your opinion, I have mine. That is what forums are about.
Don't try and suggest its the rest of the forum posters versus little old me.
Fill your boots then. Go ahead and give us your opinion, if possible with your weighting criteria for the different events (bearing in mind there are currently eight Olympic medals and ten WC medals available on the track and only two on the road). Don't let the fact that nobody that's stated an opinion so far has actually agreed with you put you off, nor that the thread has basically died in a consensus that Sean Kelly is the answer. Give it your best shot. While you're at it you could also let us know how to weight MBK, Cross and BMX in all of this.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:Don't let the fact that nobody that's stated an opinion so far has actually agreed with you put you off, nor that the thread has basically died in a consensus that Sean Kelly is the answer.
I thought I had.
Oh and I would say it's LeMond and not Kelly as well, but there you go.0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:Don't let the fact that nobody that's stated an opinion so far has actually agreed with you put you off, nor that the thread has basically died in a consensus that Sean Kelly is the answer.
I thought I had.
Oh and I would say it's LeMond and not Kelly as well, but there you go.
Well that's you off my Christmas card list then.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:Well that's you off my Christmas card list then.
Blimey, didn't know I was on it! Still waiting for last year's card.0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:Well that's you off my Christmas card list then.
Blimey, didn't know I was on it! Still waiting for last year's card.
What, the one with the £500 Wiggle token in? It never arrived?Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
is it Kimmage?0
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No tA Doctor wrote:What, the one with the £500 Wiggle token in? It never arrived?
Err, no. Postie has got a nice new Raleigh Airlite though. Wait a minute...0