Fahgetaboutit lock

Satchmo245 · June 2007

Do you have the vid for the Kryptonite 3000 lock yet? Also, may I suggest you wear some goggles.....actually no, a full face helmet whilst performing the tests! Some of them locks explode to smitherines!

[:D]

<hr noshade size="1">
<center>My Trusty Steed, The New Build</center>
<center>My Pics! Updated</center>
<center> Me Blog</center>

Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Satchmo245

Do you have the vid for the Kryptonite 3000 lock yet? Also, may I suggest you wear some goggles.....actually no, a full face helmet whilst performing the tests! Some of them locks explode to smitherines!

[:D]

<hr noshade size="1">
<center>My Trusty Steed, The New Build</center>
<center>My Pics! Updated</center>
<center> Me Blog</center>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Bought some last week, had a few too many close calls when freeze spray testing with my trusty anvil and 14lb sledge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e7ALVq1RJc

Got an Oxford lock in the shin once at about Mach 5, it hurt.

I think Alex will be working on the vid soon. I'm sure you appreciate the need for it to be properly done seeing as it costs œ60 a whack for the D lock.

whitedragon101 · June 2007

The New York 3000 comes top in every test of bikelocks I have ever seen, second only to the 18mm version the Fahgetaboutit. Every magazine and independant test rates it as formidable, and there have been many both in Europe and the USA. The only test that seems to come up a winner is 10 mins with a disc cutter, which is as much as you can expect from any lock, expecially if you use two or three

.

I feel a bit distraught now as Almax seem determined to show there is no security that works except Almax, which would be fine. But Almax has two problems:

1) I have never seen an independant respected test of Almax locks and a google search of "almax test" turns up a couple of stories. The first says an Almax 3 can be cut with power tools in about 4mins, the second is a press complaint which says that the Almax 3 was broken with handtools in under 37seconds but it was not made clear in the programme that a steel anvil was used.
http://www.toolweb.co.uk/reviewalmax.html
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/story.asp ... tioncode=1
This is hardly conclusive. But the point is without an independant test from a trusted source there will always be questions. For example, how does a Almax 3 fare against a disc cutter? We have this information for other locks because we have seen them in idependant reviews. Without a head to head test (from a trusted source like whatmtb or mbuk) of the best locks and Almax using a variety of tools from hand tools up to the really serious breaking tools, it will be difficult to make an apples with apples comparison. In fact that gives me an idea. Almax if your reading this - if you send in your lock to mbuk or whatmtb we can see an independant test of it, a 10/10 rating from them would mean big business and peace of mind for us mountain bikers

2) Because the Almax chains weigh so much it makes it impractical for locking up high value bikes on the move. If the 0.7m version and lock weighs 3.85kg thats 7.7kg for a double lock setup! My whole bike only weighs 9.8kg.

So I don't know where that leaves us bikers. If a couple of New York 3000 locks afren't good enough (still not sure about that though) and a couple of Almax chains weigh almost as much as a bike what is there left?

Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

Whitedragon, actually this

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ProductDetail.a ... 5360020595

Stands up very well against croppers and certainly APPEARS to be of sturdy design and manufacturing. I'll be sacrificing it to the jack at some stage so will report back when that happens.

Is WhatMTB an experienced tester? Do they have the full arsenal of tools that a theif would use? Do they know all the tricks and techniques? I for one would be happy to pass on any info and even advise whoever does the testing but it has to be relevant. Yes, you CAN angle grind an Almax, it's ridiculous to assume you can't, but the aim is to prevent silent attacks, if you can force them to use grinders and fraginme 1mm discs (you need these, as well as TWO 18v batteries for the Series IV) then you have pretty much won half the battle.

Ask plod what a majority of theives use and they will reply bolt cutters or hydraulic cutters, it's pointless to design a chain that resists a seldom used from of attack but holds up well to attack by something that's never used. It's a balance that needs to be struck, one that I don't believe Kryptonite have achieved.

Express Courier · June 2007

Come on have a bit of cop on then, Bolt croppers were not invented yesterday they have been around for years, if anything they are good for one or two go's at a lock, I have tried them many times on Abus, Ox, and krypto's when I lost my $&%* keys. You get no credit from me testing other locks and making your own look good, who died and make you an expert?
As for the Jack thing, there was a few heroes from America that went around with a car jack about 10 years ago and were going to save the frigging world with their bones, not. There was no jack issue just their way to try and sell their locks, we all know locks can be broke, but come on, if they are used as designed then there is not going to be space to get busted. If you leave enough space for that little bottle jack then your not locking correctly or you need a smaller lock.
Come on there fat bloke, all your doing is buying a piece of big ass chain, throwing a cover on it and adding someone else's lock, nothing new!!! We want smaller chains, and smaller locks, how the hell could anyone carry that thing around. By the way locks get tested all day everyday on the street , we know how locks are broken. believe me all your doing is giving the scum who steal bikes a way to much credit, your not helping us on bikes anything with your dog and pony show. Your just giving people ideas to try and we will suffer ! with damaged bikes, from botched attempts, and the locks will still be there as they have been for years!. Come back when you have something new that we can actually use.[B)].
It is OK people, it is safe to come out from under the bed with your bike.

whitedragon101 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Fat bloke in a pink shirt

Is WhatMTB an experienced tester? Do they have the full arsenal of tools that a theif would use? Do they know all the tricks and techniques? I for one would be happy to pass on any info and even advise whoever does the testing but it has to be relevant.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tis true I don't know how experienced they are at testing, it was mainly that they are trusted by bikers to be impartial. What I'm really getting at is that Kryptonite has been tested by every man and his dog. So at least people know what its capabilities are. With Almax I can't find any tests by an impartial source.

(I don't mean to sound like I'm saying your making false claims at all, but when buying anything you always check out a couple of reviews and tests from a trusted source).

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Fat bloke in a pink shirt
it's pointless to design a chain that resists a seldom used from of attack but holds up well to attack by something that's never used
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Aha someone with knowledge of disc cutter usage

. This is one of my primary concerns as I don't know how common is it for people to cut the bike hoop itself regardless of the locks attached?

Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

Whitedragon, what do you mean by bike hoop? I'm not really that familiar with cycles TBH so you'll have to bear with me. The reason grinders are relatively ineffective on large diameter chains and locks is that you need to use a 2mm disc in order to make any headway in a reasonable amount of time, unfortunately (or not) that also means that they are very delicate and tend to grab and break unless the victim is well clamped and immobilised. I can't say with authority how common grinder attacks are, but my plod contacts bear out my suspicions that it is not common at all, Almaxes theft record also bears this out.

I really feel for you guys, technology has made your bikes lighter and more desirable to scrotes but you're stuffed as far as mobile security goes. From my point of view, they best thing your community could do to reduce bike theft is to stop using cable locks, they are truly awful. I'm not entirely sure that any round bodied D lock is going to be much cop either, I've seen a few square bodied ones with the plastic off and they seem to be of a different design entirely and certainly less succeptible to having the ends fall off when jacked.

As far as impartiality goes, when we do any press demos, the board is even, same croppers, same person using them, when it somes to the Almax, it's sh*t or bust, either the chain breaks or the croppers break, I know people will not be happy until one of them is trash. Invariably it's the croppers because 16mm hardened is outside of the cropper spec. It's hard to find someone impartial AND who knows what they are doing, I don't actually work for Almax (although I do help out from time to time) and I like to at least think that I give all the other products out there their fair due, it's just that there aren't many that I can confidently give the thumbs up to, certainly not much cycle stuff, that's for sure. If you ever need a disc lock though, the Motrax Vishas puts up a hell of a fight and is very well designed.[:)]

whitedragon101 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Fat bloke in a pink shirt

Whitedragon, what do you mean by bike hoop? I'm not really that familiar with cycles TBH so you'll have to bear with me.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Bike hoops are those metal hoops you see cemented into the ground in city centres for people to lock their bikes to.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Fat bloke in a pink shirt
I'm not entirely sure that any round bodied D lock is going to be much cop either, I've seen a few square bodied ones with the plastic off and they seem to be of a different design entirly and certainly less succeptible to having the ends fall off when jacked.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Seems like his money is on Abus rather than kryptonite. What does anyone else think head to head:

In the abus camp=
Abus Granit X Plus 54 23cm D Lock
ABUS Granit Power 58 U-lock

In the Kryptonite camp=
Kryptonite New York 3000 U-lock
Kryptonite Fahgetaboutit U-lock

Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by whitedragon101

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Fat bloke in a pink shirt

Whitedragon, what do you mean by bike hoop? I'm not really that familiar with cycles TBH so you'll have to bear with me.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Bike hoops are those metal hoops you see cemented into the ground in city centres for people to lock their bikes to.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Fat bloke in a pink shirt
I'm not entirely sure that any round bodied D lock is going to be much cop either, I've seen a few square bodied ones with the plastic off and they seem to be of a different design entirly and certainly less succeptible to having the ends fall off when jacked.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Seems like his money is on Abus rather than kryptonite. What does anyone else think head to head:

Abus Granit X Plus 54 23cm D Lock
OR
Kryptonite New York 3000

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Nah, not an even field, the Kryptonite has a 16mm shackle and the Abus 13mm. The Abus would crop in about 20 seconds. A fair match would be the Abus 59 with 16mm shackle and the 3000, but having said that, the Abus is more than double the price. The 3000 did VERY well against cropping and twist attacks, I actually bent the test bike trying, but was expecting a little more resistance to the jack.

Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

WRT to the bike hoop question, I don't know. Local authorities who have to pay for their replacement might know.

madmole · June 2007

Most are Hollow 1-2mm thick galvanised. Could hacksaw through them in under 1 min, or brittle fracture them with cold chisel. When I was an ambulance driver saw many items of street furniture get smashed by wayward cars. Most are designed to break easily rather than resist an impact.

The solid metal bar hoops seem stronger than the large tubes, but I suspect they will fall prey easily to bolt croppers

The scrotes near us have also taken to using things like battery powered saws. They pull up in a van, jump out, power saw or angle grind in seconds and chuck all into back, drive off. Even if you see them its over so quick and of course the vans on fake plates. Multiple locks is the only defence here, so that they go to easier picking as the time to remove them all adds to their risk

Marin Mount Vision 2005. Fox RL100/RP3. Hope Pro 2/Mavic XC717/DT rev. Cinders 2.1, XT, Easton 70 bars, ODI rogues, KMC Chain, various bling

Almax9633 · June 2007

With regards to the Kryptonite 3000 D lock 18mm version, I cannot in all fairness say how it will react to a 5 tonne jack attack. I have some on order and will let you know next week. This might just be big enough to resist a jack attack, as the 18mm shackle will to reduce the amount of energy imparted when trying to separate the body.

What I can say with some authority is, I would rather have the 16mm kryptonite D lock on my cycle at the moment than any cable lock. At least it stops a casual thief with a limited tool kit. Also the D lock requires enough room to insert the jack, should the cyclist be able to reduce the space left over within the shackle to a minimum when locking their cycle, this makes the jack attack more difficult or in some cases impossible without wrecking the bike.

If after all this cyclists are urged away from cable locks and move to the thicker D locks, then I can only see this as a good thing. Even better for kryptonite, should the 18mm version stand up I would be happy to recommend it as the best priced portable security for cycles.

What I will not do is reduce my tool kit for testing security to just a screwdriver, cheap bolt croppers, hammer, crowbar, and pansy assed 1.5 tonne jack! I always use silent modes of attack using the best, ready available tools for the job. Noise and time are the enemy of the scrotes not the cost of the tool kit!

Mr bump · July 2007

I have one of the almax 111 chains and the ground anchor. Its a monster Dont think it will guarentee security but will put people trying to have away with my bikes.

Mr bump · July 2007

I have the oxford chain that was cut!! Will be changing that i think!

Fahgetaboutit lock

Comments

Categories