Fahgetaboutit lock

Satchmo245 · June 2007

I have seen that vid before and it's more than a little worrying! I have a Kryptonite Evolution Mini and I'm not sure how that fairs but to be honest I have never used it and I don't intend to either! My favoured method of keeping my bike safe is to not leave it in a public place at all.

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Almax9633 · June 2007

I have just purchased 2 X Kryptonite 3000 d locks 16mm, I have also 2 bottle jacks one sits 50mm high the other 75mm high and both put out 5 tonnes. I just tried a 13mm d lock today and it went in less than 30 seconds. I will let you know how I get on, what i can say is is that you cannot hand bolt crop the Kryptonite 3000 16mm D lock. I should get the locks Tuesday so all being well I will have some info to post on the results.

What I can say with authority is, do not lock a good bike up with a cable lock even if its armoured. We are talking seconds, double figures is a good result for any cable lock when tickled with a pair of manual cable cutters costing œ30, if its armoured it buys around an extra 10 seconds tops. Any lock is better than no lock, but when it comes to crunch time when you most need it cable locks offer no more than a minor inconvenience.

Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

Aye, cables are big no no, œ30 buys you a pair of cable cutters in Machine Mart that will see off 80% of cable locks in a couple of seconds.

Even I was shocked. Part of the problem is that the refraction of the invariably clear sheathing, makes the cable looks bigger than it actually is, thereby giving a greater sense of security than is actually afforded.

Will link to some pics later.

Fair dues if our doubting friend is on holiday, it's only fair to let him have his say when he gets back.

Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

Satchmo, I think Kryptonite still operate a returns policy regarding round key locks, you may be able to upgrade FOC. Try calling Kryptonite UK and see what they can do.

Unknown · June 2007

re cables, what about the 15mm kriptonite (sp). 15mm on the wire and about 20-22mm across the plastic?

yes i have seen the 8mm and less cut in parts of seconds.

nick
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Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

Nicklouse, if you can find a picture I might be able to ID it.

The Steel-o-Flex did reasonably well for an armoured cable but with hindisght, I think I should have gone for the rather weak locking mechanism with a hammer. Will try this one again because they charge œ100 for the blasted thing and I expect it to do reasonably well for that kind of cash.

Satchmo245 · June 2007

The lock I have does not have a round key but thanks for the info. With bicycles having quick release components that need securing in some way (wheels and seats) do you have a better solution as opposed to using cables?

Thanks

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Unknown · June 2007

give me a moment. it was never used for an over night lock up but just out side a shop stop.

here we are http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lock.jpg 4/5/6mm allen key to right.

it is not to hand or i could read the side. length was 2 or 3m.

nick
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Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

Nick, fraid to say that's about 20 seconds work. The cable cutters are seriously efficient at cutting cables. Cheap cable cutters work very well, cheap croppers on the other hand do not. I'd steer well clear of cables like that.

Satch, it's a tricky situation for you cyclists, weight is an issue but the more expensive bikes get and the more pathetic the punishment for stealing bikes gets, the more weight you are going to have to carry around. The Kryptonite that Alex has ordered did very well in a recent Destruct-a-thon paid for by a TV company, cropping failed, twisting failed, and if you can totally fill the void inside the D section with the lock, a jack attack will be tricky too. Time will tell with the last one but one thing is certain, things are going to get heavier if you want decent security, it's as simple as that.

Unknown · June 2007

cheers for that. having seen what is now out there in the tools world i guessed as much but 10 years ago when i bought it was not bad. the cable cutters were not up to it?

anyways drop me a mail and we could do some business. press the ? in my sig to see what i do. part time like.

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Satchmo245 · June 2007

Thanks again for the info. Keep up the good work, I will be keeping an eye out for the Kryptonite 3000 test.

[:D]

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Unknown · June 2007

As everyone has said a determine thief will make off with your bike no matter what protection/security you have. If you have a the correctly rated security device (gold/silver/bronze) your insurance company will pay out.

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whitedragon101 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

NOT..

Hi, my name is Alex and I am the smaller of the 2 chaps on the video.......
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Hi there, thanks for the reply. I just looked at the specs and I guess 16mm of steel will always be better than 11mm (a la the Faghetaboutit). I still have time to return my Kryptonite chain hence the post so i would be grateful if you could answer the following:

1) Is the Almax 3 chain Sold Secure Gold? As to insure my bike anywhere BOTH the chain and lock must be sold secure gold.
http://www.cycleguard.co.uk/locklist.as ... Code=54840
Its not on the list here but if it is Sold Secure Gold they will put it on the list.
2) How well does the Almax 3 last against a petrol powered disc cutter? (The Kyptonite Fahgetaboutit lasted 8 mins). This is important as if someone really wants a bike this is what they'll use, and I want it to take a long time.
3) How much do the 1.5m Almax 3 and 4 chains weigh? (with and without lock if you have the separate weights)
4) Are the chains actually tougher metal than the Fahgetaboutit or is it purely the thickness?

Thanks

Almax9633 · June 2007

All Almax Series Chains are Thatcham approved, since Sold Secure refused to increase the standards for testing I will never submit another Almax for Sold Secure testing!

They witnessed me crop the chains in seconds at the NEC a couple of years ago, given they use the same cropper we use, I supposed they might withdraw the chains (5 min attack test certificates) or at the very least improve the cropping tests they do in the near future! However none of the above was done so they have lost my business.

As for the weight of the new Series III 16mm chain is 3kgs 0.7m long and 850g for the lock. Not the lightest weight security but just about portable and it is long enough to secure a good bike to lampost! Portability is always an issue but the fact remains if its a D lock around the 13mm mark or chain, hexagonal or round it can be cropped in seconds! I would favour a 16mm D lock over any 13mm chain like the Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit chain or Abus Granite any day.

Unknown · June 2007

Reading all this kinda makes me glad i got a oxford monster chain on my bike at night....

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Wrath '07

Almax9633 · June 2007

Reading all this kinda makes me glad i got a oxford monster chain on my bike at night....

Your not serious! http://www.almax-security-chains.co.uk/index.asp?pg=19

Almax9633 · June 2007

That's about œ7.33 A SECOND!!!!!!!!

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Almax9633

That's about œ7.33 A SECOND!!!!!!!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Or œ0.00 a second if you got it free[;)]

On a sidenote i liked the little bit at the beginning of the Almax Immobiliser vid"

"Its British made, made of British steel and made in Britain"

I get the feeling your trying to tell me something...but i just dont know what[:D]

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Wrath '07

Almax9633 · June 2007

With regards to grinders they are seldom used, in the last 6 years we have only lost 3 bikes to this form of attack. Since we tend to sell to the higher risk end of the market like KTM's, SM, Sports bikes and off road vehicles this is a fair reflection of what thieves do to breach chains and locks. We have never lost a bike to croppers, however I have had numerous calls via insurance companies after owners have lost their bikes with other security devices and time after time its been breached using bolt croppers!

Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jamieayres

Reading all this kinda makes me glad i got a oxford monster chain on my bike at night....

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Wrath '07
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Mate, it's not just the Kryptonite, it's all of them. Oxford Monster is no better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC3hFr8p2ck

whitedragon101 · June 2007

Has anyone ever heard of someone locking their frame up and having their front forks nicked? I'm wondering if I need to put a lock through them.

Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jamieayres

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Almax9633

That's about œ7.33 A SECOND!!!!!!!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Or œ0.00 a second if you got it free[;)]

On a sidenote i liked the little bit at the beginning of the Almax Immobiliser vid"

"Its British made, made of British steel and made in Britain"

I get the feeling your trying to tell me something...but i just dont know what[:D]

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Wrath '07
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's ad-libbing for you [:)]

I would dearly like to see the source that claims a Kryptonite can withstand 8 mins of petrol grinder attack, it's simply a ridiculous claim, just think about it for a second, if petrol grinders took 8 mins to get through 11mm of very average steel, would anyone bother using them on building sites?

It's good to question though, it's questioning that improves things.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Fat bloke in a pink shirt

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jamieayres

Reading all this kinda makes me glad i got a oxford monster chain on my bike at night....

<hr noshade size="1">
Wrath '07
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Mate, it's not just the Kryptonite, it's all of them. Oxford Monster is no better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC3hFr8p2ck
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I was under the impression that bolt cropping is part of the Thatcham/Soldsecure test attacks, so how come they award approval status to chains if they can indeed be cropped in several seconds?

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Wrath '07

Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

Jamie, good question, why not call them and ask?

I don't have the answer, all I know is that they do NOT fulfil their responsibility to bikers, cyclists and other people who put their trust in Sold Secure and Thatcham products.

We've been doing this for the best part of three years now and neither myself of Almax have been warned off, spoken to or threatened with legal action despite the fact that if it were indeed lies, they'd have us bang to rights. Fact is that they are so deep in it, they are scared to even admit there's a problem, it would be a scandal that would deservedly finish Sold Secure.

I know for a fact that Sold Secure also use 42" Irwin Record croppers for their approval" testing.

Aux1 · June 2007

Hmm, why don't they put a teargas/flash bang booby trap when someone messes with the bike? [}:)]

To clip or not to clip, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind of men to suffer the dings and contusions of unclipp'd riding, or to bind thy feet against a sea of gnarly singletrack and by these contraptions, ride o'er them with ease. To clip... to slip no more, and by clipping to end the buttache and the thousand natural shocks that ryders are heir to; tis a consummation devoutly to be honed. No clip - to slip perchance to be thrashed most heinously...

KTM Ultra Flite 2007

madmole · June 2007

Could it be that Thatcham apply force to the croppers in a standard way, like holding both ends in their hands. So they just dont apply the same level of force you guys do

To be objective, you would need to have an hydraulic anvil that can apply the same forrce as the Irwins in a consistant and repeatable manner

Or could it be that Thatcham/sold secure get their funding from the very people that supply the products that are being tested? Bit like MBR and Specialised

Marin Mount Vision 2005. Fox RL100/RP3. Hope Pro 2/Mavic XC717/DT rev. Cinders 2.1, XT, Easton 70 bars, ODI rogues, KMC Chain, various bling

Unknown · June 2007

Or real world testing, locking up nice bikes up and seeing how long they take to get stolen.

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Almax9633 · June 2007

With regards to testing, it's my opinion that one should always firstly test with the Irwin Record 42" croppers. It would be then a good idea for consistancy should it pass to then submit it for a hydraulic press test just to check if there are any differences from the last time the chain was tested. However the Irwins impart the force in pulses and in a different way to a press that gradually increase the pressure over a minute or so to the required level. If a press was used on it's own then one would find chains passing as is the case at the moment yet they obviously fail against the manaul croppers. Since the scrotes us the Irwin Records, then its only right that they should be used in the testing.

Almax9633 · June 2007

The croppers are supplied with operating instructions which clearly state, place one handle on the floor and raise the head off the floor and apply downward pressure to the top handle. It's not rocket science as i said earlier, one handle is meant to be placed on the floor. I cannot believe Sold Secure and Thatcham do not know how to operate a simple mechanical device that comes with instructions!!!!!!!!!

madmole · June 2007

Do the Irwins cut the bolts, or cause a brittle fracture then. Would a chain that had a hardened outer and a less brittle inner be a better bet

Marin Mount Vision 2005. Fox RL100/RP3. Hope Pro 2/Mavic XC717/DT rev. Cinders 2.1, XT, Easton 70 bars, ODI rogues, KMC Chain, various bling

Fahgetaboutit lock

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