Fahgetaboutit lock

Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by madmole

Do the Irwins cut the bolts, or cause a brittle fracture then. Would a chain that had a hardened outer and a less brittle inner be a better bet

Marin Mount Vision 2005. Fox RL100/RP3. Hope Pro 2/Mavic XC717/DT rev. Cinders 2.1, XT, Easton 70 bars, ODI rogues, KMC Chain, various bling
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Great idea. There's one company who have invested a shedload of time and money into developing just such a chain, I wonder who that might be [;)]

Vegeeta · June 2007

Seat post... explosives.... come on, you know it makes sense!

<center>A red Aireal Symetech XC rear hub! Aireal EV-2 headset! A blue Aireal Symetech hub!</center>
<center>AIREAL AUSTRALIA</center>

<center>[:)] [:D] [8D] [:I] [:p] [}:)] [;)] [:o)] [B)] [8] [:(] [8)] [:0] [:(!] [xx(] [|)] [:X] [^] [V] [?]</center>

ED209 · June 2007

Great thread guys, very interesting. So the science of chain making is make yours a bit thicker to foil the standard cutters, and be clever about tempering the links for a combination of hardness/malleability like how they used to make samurai swords [8D]

If I ever have need of a quality lock I'll bear you in mind. Ultimately though, sad as it is most people will buy the cheapest Sold Secure they can purely to satisfy the insurance requirement [V]

GT Aggressor XC2 - lovingly crafted by the artisans at Halfords with the addition of XT hydraulic brakes, M520 pedals, Ritchey Ergo foam grips and my old nice and comfy Spesh BG saddle

Almax9633 · June 2007

I draw the line at folding our chain 200 times though!!!!! thats a bit extreme, once watched a guy make a Katana sword. Took a piece of steel about 1" x 4" and off he went with a small fire, hammer and an anvil. Hammer fold hammer fold he went, most interesting bit was watching him temper it, drissled mud along the blade with a twig at different areas along the swords length heated it and quenched it, in out of the oven several times. He would then flex it and shake his head then he would temper again in different areas, he would even ring it to here what it sound like. Maybe u had to be there but it fascinated me anyway!

madmole · June 2007

Yes, this has been one of the more interesting threads for a long time. never thought much in the past about the chains I have holding my pride and joys down. Looks like another expenditure coming up after pay day

Thanks Almax guys for the time to explain this stuff for us and doing a good sales job. Sale coming your way very soon

Can you now start explaining the reasoning behind defeating, hammer, freeze attacks etc and also how to tell which locks are any good

Was amazed to see my mates bike stolen, which had a Gold sold secure Halfords brand lock on it, which was obviously just melted/burnt through by a blow torch. Yes the lock body is PLASTIC!!

Marin Mount Vision 2005. Fox RL100/RP3. Hope Pro 2/Mavic XC717/DT rev. Cinders 2.1, XT, Easton 70 bars, ODI rogues, KMC Chain, various bling

Unknown · June 2007

Ok so this is all very interesting, Almax make the best chain, I am not disputing that, but if it is not gold sold secure rated or whatever it is, then my insurance is not valid if i use it.

So what is the best rated chain you can buy?

New Pics

My GSpot, Handjob, Rockhopper and Chameleon (now sold)

Check this out

www.mapmyride.com

Almax9633 · June 2007

Does your insurance not recognise Thatcham, the insurance bodies set the standards for Thatcham testing?

madmole · June 2007

Why not use an Almax AND a Gold Sold secure. I already have about 5 locks on my bikes (a gold and a silver locking the frames to a ground anchor, A cable through all the wheels and another lock through all the forks)

I plan to get an Almax to go through all the frames to a second ground anchor. This is all in a locked and alarmed shed (lots of bikes go walkies our way). As I service and repair bikes I also have a few customers bikes to secure as well

Marin Mount Vision 2005. Fox RL100/RP3. Hope Pro 2/Mavic XC717/DT rev. Cinders 2.1, XT, Easton 70 bars, ODI rogues, KMC Chain, various bling

Almax9633 · June 2007

Just a quick one, just got the 2 Kryptonite 3000 16mm D locks, used the first to practise on! No need it took around 45 seconds!!!! The jack pulled the body in half on the second raising of the jack which was a bit of a shock!

madmole · June 2007

So what do you guys make of the Abus Granit Steel O flex

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ProductDetail.a ... 5220000043

Although a cable its armoured and in theory too wide to fit into the Irwins. Ask cos thats what I'm curently using as a main lock

Marin Mount Vision 2005. Fox RL100/RP3. Hope Pro 2/Mavic XC717/DT rev. Cinders 2.1, XT, Easton 70 bars, ODI rogues, KMC Chain, various bling

buddha · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Almax9633

Just a quick one, just got the 2 Kryptonite 3000 16mm D locks, used the first to practise on! No need it took around 45 seconds!!!! The jack pulled the body in half on the second raising of the jack which was a bit of a shock!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Oh dear!
So when are you guys bringing out a D-lock?

<center>Lardy | Madame de Pompadour</center>

Unknown · June 2007

Oh sorry are almax thatchem approved, i must of missed it.

New Pics

My GSpot, Handjob, Rockhopper and Chameleon (now sold)

Check this out

www.mapmyride.com

Almax9633 · June 2007

I won't be bringing a D lock out, the problem as stated earlier being that there is a large gap within the shackle and body which is unavoidable and perfect for a hyraulic jack or scissor jack. The body of the lock is just 2 hollow tubes of alloy steel one inside the other to reduce weight. This allowed the expanding shackle to split the body in two halves when the jack was raised. To make the body solid would just raise the weight and mean the stress would impart on the shackle.

The Abus Granite Steel O Flex was the better armour cable lock we tested, however had I had previous knowledge with this product I would expect to have change out of 45 seconds on the second attempt (silent attack). It does fit in the Irwins after a little deformation from the wire cutters. So its wire cutters(10-15 seconds) Irwins (5-10 seconds) wire cutters (5 seconds) in this order. One could flatten the armour with a hammer, however I feel this is less likely due to the noise involved.

With regards to not getting insurance if its not Sold Secure Gold (Bicycle), is not Thatcham approval good enough!

The series III + IV were previously Sold Secure Gold for cars, bicycles, motor scooters, motorcycles, caravans, commercial and Industrial vehicles, however since they have shown any commitment to increasing thier testing standards then I simply allowed it to lapse this year and sent our chains to Thatcham!

Unknown · June 2007

So in answer to my question they are thatcham approved.

New Pics

My GSpot, Handjob, Rockhopper and Chameleon (now sold)

Check this out

www.mapmyride.com

Almax9633 · June 2007

Sorry, I missed your earlier acknowledgment of Thatcham approval.

Unknown · June 2007

No worries, when I thought you said they were not sold secure I thought that they also were not thatcham approved, because i thought one came with the other, oops, however, will be sorting out security for my bikes soon, and will be insuring them tonight probably. So just had to make sure, you got a link to your website?

New Pics

My GSpot, Handjob, Rockhopper and Chameleon (now sold)

Check this out

www.mapmyride.com

Almax9633 · June 2007

No problem, www.almax-securitiy-chains.co.uk

I will be filming the second D lock attack with luck later today, from opening the packaging to locking the bike and using the jack.

Almax9633 · June 2007

I just phoned Sold Secure, they do not test with scissor or miniature bottle jacks!!!!!!

Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

I'm as surprised as anyone about the Kryptonite D lock but here are the pics. Shockingly poor design and materials.

http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa60 ... onite1.jpg
http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa60 ... onite4.jpg

papasmurf. · June 2007

most people inthe garage under work use their d locks through the spokes, so if i wanted to knick their crappy bikes I could do this with my penknife or probably even my barehands.

The problem I have is secureing my vespa, so i just tend to park it next to all the expensive super bikes and use them as a decoy

Meta5.5
GT Avalanche 3

Almax9633 · June 2007

Zanx has been kind enough to post a picture of what the bottle jack did, as you can see the bottle jacks are small enough to fit within the D lock even when a frame and an anchor point is used!!!!!

http://www.visordown.com/forums/showthr ... kryptonite

Almax9633 · June 2007

I must learn to read ALL posts before posting myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Almax9633 · June 2007

I purchase a cheap Bell D lock costing $11 from a wal-mart in the USA last week and it put up more of a struggle. The jack had to be raised 3 times to drive the shackle out the body which took around 1 min. So its more down to checking out the design of a product than just the cost. Although cost is a fair indication of worth it's by no means the end of the story.

soulsaverwmb · June 2007

Great!!!! I own a Kryptonite D [B)]

<hr noshade size="1">My Giant Reign :Upcoming upgrades, money permitting: Pike forks(Aug 07). Push'ed Fox RP23shock((Aug/Sept 07) . Hope pro2 hubs(Front Aug 07/Rear ???).Oh and maybe some flying snake cables given that everyone keeps on about them. My Dream replacement

 My Marin Palisades Trail :Upcoming upgrades, money permitting: XT Crankset(Got it, just need to face BB beofre I can fit).Do away with R/R rear mech and change front and back mechs to 07 XTR(Xmas 07). Sram PC991 chain and PG990 Cassette(July 07). Hope mini brakes(Oct 07). SDG carbon I-Beam seat post and saddle.Carbon Bars. My Dream replacement
<hr noshade size="1"><center>My new flickr page. Its going to take some time to get all my photos uploaded</center>

Almax9633 · June 2007

I was going to recommend these http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-SJSC ... 2-7012.htm

But after finding out they are only 2-3mm in thickness I have serious doubts wether they would offer any resistance to even a pair of cheap croppers! Still they would be better than not having them at all and they are very cheap.

madmole · June 2007

Well Almex guys your help and education session paid off. Nice little order just gone off to you. Hopefully from this weekend on, my pride and joys will be a little more secure

Now if you can just come up with a solution for the toerags who keep throwing bricks through my land Rovers windows in the offchance that I have left an ipod or Tom Tom in the glove compartment (I'm not that daft) 8-(

Marin Mount Vision 2005. Fox RL100/RP3. Hope Pro 2/Mavic XC717/DT rev. Cinders 2.1, XT, Easton 70 bars, ODI rogues, KMC Chain, various bling

Kryptonite Lock · June 2007

Hi everyone:

We've been watching this topic with interest for awhile now on multiple forums. We replied on bikeforums.net yesterday, but with today's posts and inconsistencies we thought it would be a good time to jump in here. Although we have no interest in a back and forth with our competition we do want to tell cyclists here a few things.

Kryptonite stands behind our products. We always have and we do right this very minute (we will tomorrow, too, and next week...and next month...and so on...). We make all sizes of D-locks and chains (and even cables) for all types of lock up needs. When they are used properly, they work properly. Many of them are even supported by an anti-theft protection offer. We do that for a reason, too - we have confidence in them.

Many of our locks are tested by independent testing agencies throughout Europe - Sold Secure, ART, SRA, FFMC, VdS, SSF. The job of these agencies is to test and rate the products that are submitted to them (not to sell their own products). The testing agencies have been doing this for years and years and know all of the common methods thieves use on the streets. How? They work with police departments on a continuous basis to learn any new methods that are becoming actual trends and will then shift their testing criteria accordingly. They test all the locks with these methods. The most common methods? Still the things thieves get for free - hammers, prybars chisels, screwdrivers etc. - not something that they need to go to a specialty store and buy for many pounds.

We don't condone teaching anyone how to break locks. Our marketing folks (like me!) spend our time teaching people how to choose the best lock for them (for the area they live in, where they lock etc) and how to properly lock up a bike or motorbike. Our engineers? Well, they spend their time following trends, too, and building better locks to continue to defeat thieves worldwide.

Also, it's been mentioned, on a few forums, that there is a UK television station that is planning to air video of lots of locks being broken and such. We have not seen any video or heard from any television station. If this is going to be a credible show, I would think they would want to talk with the companies represented and get our comments. Kryptonite is happy to talk with the television station involved directly. We will discuss any legitimate test results with this station, gladly.

Happy Summer and safe riding everyone!

Donna
Kryptonite

Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

See this?

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... ble-cutter

It's a cable cutter from a distinctly NON specialist shop, Machine Mart to be exact, it cost me œ30 and I can get though EVERY SINGLE one of your Kryptonite cable locks in under 30 seconds. FYI, it was me that started eductating people in the UK about your radial keyed locks that could be opened with a pen, yes, that was me in RiDE magazine [8D] You can buy bolt croppers anywhere and according to my UK police contacts, they are the most commonly used tool for thieving motorcycles. Your police contacts are US police contacts, the US does not yet have the rampant theft problem that we have. If Kryptonite were serious about making GOOD security products, they'd be liasing with inner city UK police forces to ascertain if a certain product is up to the job, or even, dare I say it, someone who busts cycle and motorbike security just for the hell of it.
Your engineers should be looking at what Almax have done and be grateful for it, you have the opportunity to improve your New York lock quite easily by dumping the double skin system and by not case hardening the tubes. Not saying that it will be impossible to break if you do that, but it should put up more of a struggle.
Just for the record, I admire tremendously the way Kryptonite dealt with the radial key issue, certainly MUCH better than those jokers as Oxford Products.
Two ways you can go, listen to the people who have significant experience in this field and improve your product, or do the same old fingers in ears la-la-la and hope we go away.

Oh, your chains are dire by the way, not good at all, you need to dump the hexagonal thing because it REALLY helps get a nice grip with the croppers (contrary to what you might think)

Lots of love,

Captain Cropper.

Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

This is the round key issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zy8sEj8etU

Fat bloke in a pink shirt · June 2007

Aaand another thing, see all those chains in the Youtube vid? They are ALL Sold Secure or Thatcham tested and approved to their highest standard. Looks like testing things for years and years hasn't made them any better at it. The Kryptonite 3000 has just passed Sold Secure 5 minute attack test criteria and Alex broke it in under half a minute. I'm thinking the $ or œ is mightier than the cropper.

Fahgetaboutit lock

Comments

Categories