Today's discussion about the news
Comments
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How long do I need to try it for before you will allow me to make a decision about where I prefer to live?
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The general view is that the raises are above inflation, for example:
Also please explain why, if inflation is good, the BoE has a mandate to keep it down to a certain level.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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Not for me to say. But it does help you get a better feel for the reality of options outside of what you are used to.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Show me the numbers to support that if you can.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Did you only read the headline?
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And then you need to consider the cost of under employment in key public services, both in terms of lost wages, and then the cost of not having sufficient labour to adequately provide the services required.
That, in turn, has knock on costs for people as things like health problems get worse and are more problematic over time, recovery rates are worse etc etc etc. It also has impacts on investment, as who wants to invest in a country where 5% of the time their employees are not able to access public transport or healthcare?
etc etc.
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You seem to be assuming that in making a decision about what I prefer I have never tried anything else. Be reassured, I have tried plenty of other options.
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You claimed the train drivers increase was above inflation but it wasn't. If you freeze pay for several years then inevitably the increase to account for the intervening years inflation will be bigger. One year's pension increase to match inflation was £11bn for 13m pensioners. On that basis £10bn to catch up on a two year pay freeze and a well below inflation increase in 2023 (6m employees) sounds about right.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Seems like you've been taking lessons in being patronising from Rick again.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The pensioners is a different point.
If you go back far enough I'm sure you can make the numbers look like almost any raise is 'about right'.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The outgoing railway minister stated this. Cost to the rail industry was £25m per strike weekday and £15m per weekend day. Estimates vary from £1bn to £5bn for total cost of strikes.
Also, just from the hospitality industry.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I'm sure Rick will thank you for answering answering my question to him. What are your thoughts on the fact that Labour got no concessions on working practices, hours or productivity in return for these raises?
Also your shows quite neatly how much damage the unions do to the economy.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
If you make yourself the only employer of an understaffed workforce, which takes a long time to train what do you think is going to happen? I don't think the government should have anything to do with setting pay for train drivers, but that's where we've been for the last two years.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
It's all public spending. If one has a triple lock, you can see why the other might see that as a benchmark.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
And I thought that you were a good free market capitalist. Inflation is almost a necessity to maintain capitalism, it supports investment, thereby supporting spending and growth. Negative inflation means a shrinking economy. Obviously excessive inflation is also a bad thing, which is why the BOE have a mandate to keep it under control.
It's not a situation that I am happy with, continued expansion of the world economies can only really happen with a continued increase in the use and abuse of our natural resources. I think someone needs to come up with a plan to shrink economies without causing too much pain fairly soon or else the Earth is fooked.
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I think I and others predicted that the downside of a large majority of any political persuasion is a lack of control and discipline from its own side.
The unions already seem to be flexing their muscles after a prolonged period in a coffin. I don't see that as being a particularly good thing, to the extent that they are being opportunists. With the modest actual popularity of labour (albeit in the context of no one being popular), plus the snake oil of populism, I do wonder if they realise the real risk of a one term stay of execution from the far right.
I doubt it, because unions tend to be full of idealists, and idealists tend not to be very smart.
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Since I am in the minority on Israel / Gaza in that although I think it is an enormous strategic mistake, I believe the way the IDF conducts itself on the whole (with some obvious exceptions) to be rational and sensible in the context of where and how the enemy fights, here is someone who agrees with me who has much more authority on the issue - Deputy Supreme Allied Commander Europe (I seem to be able to read this one)
In general it's a refrain you hear often from military types with experience of urban warfare. They're obviously not commenting on the strategic value of the military action, but they do all seem to converge on the idea that the IDF is waging it in a reasonable way.
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Agree that it should be a matter between employer and employee although I the understaffing is not for want of candidates, not surprising given the pay on offer for a relatively low skilled job. They need to sort that as it gives the unions more leverage.
And if you think that this round of rises will stop them coming back for more, you're being a bit optimistic. The union bosses have smelt weakness now.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
To be fair, I'm not a fan of the triple lock and it's one area where I have some sympathy for Rick. The cost of the state pension is enormous and needs to be managed. That and gold plated public sector pensions.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Blaming people for capitalising on the opportunities they're presented with seems profoundly unconservative, not to mention looking in the wrong direction. Government should have never taken over direct control of the TOCs. The reason there aren't many going from initial interest to employment is that the training is difficult to pass and the working conditions are not as attractive as people might think despite the pay - hours are definitely not 9-5. How do you reckon you'd do memorising every signal, braking point and junction on a 150mile journey?
It's funny: you never hear people saying pilots are paid too much for a low-skilled job despite actually having an autopilot and two or three of them to a plane.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
As I've said before, I don't object to anyone trying to maximise their pay. What I do object to is the methods they use to do that. Also the expectation that the extra pay should not be linked to any improvement in productivity, increase in hours etc is pretty selfish and in most other workplaces, unrealistic.
If they're not happy with their lot, they can resign and get better pay elsewhere. If they can...
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Like teachers and doctors. I'm not sure quite what country you'd like this to be when we haven't got enough in any of these professions already, and you're telling them to get other better-paying jobs to improve their pay.
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In a more open sector, if you don't like the pay and terms you can ask for a pay rise and if still not forthcoming, hand your notice in and try somewhere else. That opportunity doesn't exist in the rail industry. If you are a train driver there is effectively one employer for passenger services. You will inevitably end up with a union or something similar to counterbalance that single employer. Same goes for any sector with a small number of massive employers. It's a major weakness of big businesses.
Funnily enough a handful of people at a friend's friend's practice tried to go on strike. It didn't work. Clients went elsewhere. People were made redundant.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
If you can't do better elsewhere in the job market, thats the reality so don't stoop to extortion by striking to get better than the market rate.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It's no more extortion than the only employer unilaterally dictating terms.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
True to some extent and that highlights the need to research your job or career choice in advance. There's plenty of info out there.
Quite a few other careers have alternatives, such as private tuition for teachers and private medical work for doctors.
As for your point above about train drivers warranting high pay for being skilled, I struggle with them earning more than my daughter will earn as a fully qualified vet using your logic.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
NHS provides the training for most of those private healthcare professionals, and plenty work in both. Regardless there is still one massive employer setting the benchmark for the entire profession. That makes strikes more likely - because to a large degree, your only other option is to leave the profession altogether. And people are leaving all of those professions for better terms and conditions, which tells you the employer is not offering enough.
As for vet salaries, that's a whole thread in itself. The architectural profession is having a similar crisis of confidence with various commentators bemoaning the poor pay and gradual erosion of position in the construction industry. All while cutting each other's throat's with fee bids. Thankfully, PE doesn't seem too interested in architects, but I've seen them ruin a couple of good structural engineers.
Bottom line is it's got very little to do with how qualified you are and much more to do with how valuable the role is. If 'we' want clients to pay more for a discretionary service that's for us to solve. I do think a lot of the professional degrees would benefit from more attention on the reality of running a small business as that is the predominant model for a lot of consulting professionals.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
If your daughter gets it wrong someone’s pet dies, if a train driver gets it wrong dozens of people die. Who has the most responsibilities.
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Sounds like she needs a union.
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