Today's discussion about the news
Comments
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Maybe she should have done more research prior.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
How would that help?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
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You need to factor in how long you are not earning for, while you train (pardon pun). Plus supply and demand. There are relatively few people with the intelligence and inclination to be a vet, whereas train drivers are relatively replaceable.
All in all, train drivers do comparatively well. Particularly if the comparison is a train driver in some other country.
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The real problem with the train unions is it creates driver shortages, which regularly affects services.
nicely illustrated by the chart
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You are so smart.
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That's clearly a self-explanatory chart.
It's just that I can't for the life of me work out what it explains.
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2400 students apply for 1200 Vet school places despite needing AAA grades in chemistry, biology and one other subject. There are 29,000 veterinary surgeons compared to 19,000 train drivers. There are academically lower entry requirements but there is a medical exam and training takes a year and a bit plus a couple of months to learn a specific route. Competition for entry is much higher at 1,100 per place but clearly a lot don't make the grade.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
It's instructions for a wall mounted TV bracket. Duh.
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Yeah, how are we saying unions cause driver shortages?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
This is not terribly relevant.
There's a vet shortage in the UK. Why is that? Answer because it is long hours hard work and you have to train for years and be smart in the first place. The reason, basically, is not many people can do it in the first place, so there is a comparatively tiny pool of people to select from.
Evidently lots of people can be train drivers and even more want to be because it is so well paid.
It's going to be progressively automated as well. The unions will then be responsible for the continued existence of train drivers.
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Oh, I thought it was a type of windmill. After all, RC is part-Dutch, so it probably does explain everything he needs to know.
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Actually, it's an eye test. The red dot is right in the middle.
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It shows that trade unions mean higher pay than would be the case purely from the free market. The higher pay means there is less demand for drivers from train companies. If the market price were used then train companies would employ more people.
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If a train driver gets it wrong, people are more likely to be late for work...
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
It's not that vets are necessarily umderpaid, it's more demonstrating that train drivers are overpaid.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The Royal College sets the number of places in schools. It requires a lot of skills, many of which are not covered by science A-levels. The entry requirements are set that high to restrict access. A lot of people think they can be train drivers but very few are successful. Automation has not extended past the Victoria line and the DLR in 40 years for the reasons I explained the other day. The number of vets is relatively steady, but people have bought a lot of pets in the last 5 years and then we were somewhat less friendly to all the European vets.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
She's too dedicated to go on strike.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
So you've lived out in the country then?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Nothing you've said changes my point. It reinforces it actually.
There are a finite number if train drivers required. And it is arguably overpaid so lots of people apply. So they can set the bar where they want.
If fewer people applied, the bar would be lower. I'm not sure that would affect safety, because I'm not sure I believe the unions line on that.
Automation has been held back by the unions. Remember the strikes a few years ago because they threatened to replace the slow moving individual at the back of the train - you know, the guy who makes.all the 15-20s delays while he scratches his crotch before stepping back onto the train add up to pissing all the passengers off - with a camera, a screen and an open/close button?
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Like I said it's nothing to do with how qualified you are, it's the value of the role. One train driver is more valuable to their employer than one vet is to their employer.
If automation was viable for open networks do you not think someone would have introduced it by now somewhere in the world? They haven't because there's not enough benefit from the massive investment needed to develop and implement it. I mean seriously, do you think Siemens or Hitachi have a load of prototypes sat on the shelf just because whatsisname has said hid members have concerns? We haven't even got the UK network all up to the same signalling standard.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Sure, but automation is coming. Ffs it is coming to the roads, so it is bound to be viable where you don't need to steer.
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Key point is that you need a perfectly aligned infrastructure. In this country? Pah! Everything is done on a shoestring by hodge-it and budge-it.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Who is developing it?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I suspect we won't be the first to implement new technologies.
However, if technology encroaches on the job, requiring less human intervention (at least on board) and increasing safety - which is already the case - then why does the value of the bloke sitting in a cab continue to rise? And why are they paid literally twice the amount of their peers on the continent?
RC is actually right, that the unions are vested in maintaining the status quo whereby the lucrative "overtime" is in fact necessary, then leveraging the minutia of the terms of that overtime to inflate overall T&Cs.
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Loads of people notTerry.
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It won't be long before an automous Robot will be able to walk onto the train and press the brake/accelerator. It could probably do the locamotion whilst it's at it.
It seems wrong to call a Robot it. Robots will have feeling too.
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Here's an article from 2017 saying they were implementing ATO on the Thameslink upgrade from 2018 😂.
They still don't even have on train WiFi on most of the Thameslink stock. However, there are currently 34 trains an hour through Blackfriars - roughly one train every 4 minutes in each direction. The limitation there is physical space, not technology or uppity drivers.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
All fair points but who is going to implement it, and pay for it?
I suspect this discussion will still be happening in 10 years time.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
i'd guess the state/complexity of the uk's infrastructure makes it much harder/costlier to safely automate legacy services
whereas in japan...
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0
