What's your opinion about electric car?

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Comments

  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,060
    edited September 2023

    Very on brand today, lads.

    I'm sure we are, but what does this mean?
    So the interesting topic is that China has come from being a tiny player to world leader in cars in 3 years, but the forum is more interested in the quality of the tweet and the chart.
    I can't speak for anyone else, but I have nothing to do with the car industry, but am involved pretty much every day in the "Presentation of data to tell the story" industry so am naturally biased to the latter at the expense of the former in terms of interest.

    And domestic UK politics is not going to be much affected by trends in the car industry (except maybe if BMW shut up shop during an election campaign etc.) whereas folk are seemingly highly influenced on a daily basis by the quality of analysis / presentation of key trends, making such analysis / presentation much more an issue likely to affect the UK political landscape.

    And just to be pedantic, it's only due to the dodgy y-axis that China appears to have come from a tiny player. The reality is that it has come from being a small player.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,435

    Very on brand today, lads.

    I'm sure we are, but what does this mean?
    So the interesting topic is that China has come from being a tiny player to world leader in cars in 3 years, but the forum is more interested in the quality of the tweet and the chart.
    Is that the fault of the forum or people posting shitty quality stuff in the first case? For me the graph in the FT article is fine, it's simple to read and easily understood. That graphic in the covering Tweet was just confusing and didn't, IMO, convey the message as well as they could have done with a simple pie chart (and that's ignoring the fact it is showing a different measurement of the information). If the person had just Tweeted the original article rather than trying to make a clever point it would have done a better job of explaining China's growth in the car industry.
  • Pross said:

    Very on brand today, lads.

    I'm sure we are, but what does this mean?
    So the interesting topic is that China has come from being a tiny player to world leader in cars in 3 years, but the forum is more interested in the quality of the tweet and the chart.
    Is that the fault of the forum or people posting shitty quality stuff in the first case? For me the graph in the FT article is fine, it's simple to read and easily understood. That graphic in the covering Tweet was just confusing and didn't, IMO, convey the message as well as they could have done with a simple pie chart (and that's ignoring the fact it is showing a different measurement of the information). If the person had just Tweeted the original article rather than trying to make a clever point it would have done a better job of explaining China's growth in the car industry.
    Exactly, the digging proved that we were correct
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,593

    rjsterry said:

    Pross said:

    I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.
    Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.
    You can see the same as me then, and it seems perfectly clear.

    China in 2020 had 1.57% as per the graphic, and now the story in the FT tweet is that China is going to become the largest exporter. That's a pretty big shift in only 3 years.
    I'm puzzled how China has overtaken Japan when Germany was the clear leader in 2020. What's happened to Germany?
    I think I've worked it out.

    The FT article is about numbers of vehicles, and has this graph:



    The other graphic is about value of cars, so Germany is higher due to the expensive wankpanzers it builds.

    Still a really big shift.
    Thanks. If they sorted out the y-axis, the FT graph would be ok.
    Not sure a bunch of empty space would add information.
    It would show that China hasn't increased from zero. There is a reason it is considered poor form.
    The numbers on the y axis tell you this, too. It's not much of a mental leap to imagine the empty part of the chart so as to correctly understand the information. Like all abbreviations a little clarity is lost in the interests of fitting the information in the available space.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,551
    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Pross said:

    I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.
    Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.
    You can see the same as me then, and it seems perfectly clear.

    China in 2020 had 1.57% as per the graphic, and now the story in the FT tweet is that China is going to become the largest exporter. That's a pretty big shift in only 3 years.
    I'm puzzled how China has overtaken Japan when Germany was the clear leader in 2020. What's happened to Germany?
    I think I've worked it out.

    The FT article is about numbers of vehicles, and has this graph:



    The other graphic is about value of cars, so Germany is higher due to the expensive wankpanzers it builds.

    Still a really big shift.
    Thanks. If they sorted out the y-axis, the FT graph would be ok.
    Not sure a bunch of empty space would add information.
    It would show that China hasn't increased from zero. There is a reason it is considered poor form.
    The numbers on the y axis tell you this, too. It's not much of a mental leap to imagine the empty part of the chart so as to correctly understand the information. Like all abbreviations a little clarity is lost in the interests of fitting the information in the available space.
    If I have to read all the figures to interpret the graph correctly then it's a poor graph, but each to their own.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,517
    It’s a remarkable story and if we are all serious about EVs chances are either a lot of us will be driving Chinese EVs - which not many would have predicted very long ago - or we’ll be deprived from the most competitive producers of them.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,435

    It’s a remarkable story and if we are all serious about EVs chances are either a lot of us will be driving Chinese EVs - which not many would have predicted very long ago - or we’ll be deprived from the most competitive producers of them.

    Is that the case? I don't really follow motoring news but considering they control a lot of the raw materials needed for batteries and have a strong electronics industry I'm not sure it is that surprising. It also appears that the numbers include production of vehicles from manufacturers that have moved production there. The move to EVs was always an opportunity for newcomers to the market (like Tesla) especially as the traditional car manufacturers took their time to make the switch.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,551

    It’s a remarkable story and if we are all serious about EVs chances are either a lot of us will be driving Chinese EVs - which not many would have predicted very long ago - or we’ll be deprived from the most competitive producers of them.

    It's following the motorbike trend and has been coming for a while. Much like many other industries. At the moment, not many bankable wind turbines are made in China, but it won't be long until they.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,706
    rjsterry said:

    Pross said:

    I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.
    Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.
    It's illustrating the massive expansion of Chinese production from outside top 15 to first place in 3 years.

    Am I the only one who can see the words?
    Nope, I see them too.
    It makes perfect sense. If you can see the words, I suppose.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,593
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition

  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,593


    Fond memories 😊
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition