What's your opinion about electric car?
pep.fermi
Posts: 388
I own a cheap old and crappy Peugeot 207sw, petrol, market value today perhaps 2500-3000.
And I drive only ca 3000 km/yr. So switching to EV makes no sense for me, neither for environment nor for the costs. Still, I'm intrigued by EVs.
What's your opinion on EVs?
And I drive only ca 3000 km/yr. So switching to EV makes no sense for me, neither for environment nor for the costs. Still, I'm intrigued by EVs.
What's your opinion on EVs?
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Comments
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I’m surprised there hasn’t been a previous thread discussing this sort of thing.1
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I am not sure they are really overpriced, just look at the price of a Ford Focus new these days and compare with an MG4.
WRT range, you've got to factor in that you're not running from 100%-0 all the time, it will be more like 80%-20%. So a 300 mile range in practical terms is more like 200. But that's still quite a long way, and will be enough for the overwhelming majority of journeys, so not buying the "not practical for remote locations argument". OK Essex is never properly remote but every other large house in the country now seems to have a Tesla, backing that it doesn't worry the owners either.
WRT cost obviously the increase in electricity prices blows a massive hole in any cheaper running costs argument. But my work offers free charging, as do many others.
Looking at the Ford Vs MG cost example, there will be a point where it just becomes cheaper and a more sensible choice for the EV over the ICE, as long as it fits your usage. I suspect that will happen way quicker than people realise.0 -
Low maintenance, no oil changes, filters, Adblue, less wear on brakes (regen), more efficient. A brushless electric motor is much better in many ways.
As for the energy required I think EV's at the moment are better suited to people with chargers at home and car variants which can cover the owners maximum distance trip. It's also worth noting it's better not to drain li-ion batteries below 20% and not above 80% for the longevity of the cells. Whether the manufacturers take this into consideration?0 -
I think depending on usage, they work out as cheaper quite quickly; as long where you live and where you spend most of your time in the car has the right infrastructure.0
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I read recently that like for like, EVs are 50% more expensive.
If you are just considering cost, I would have thought a iow milage user such as the OP would be better off with a petrol car for a while yet.
There has to be a crossover mileage, and someone is bound to have worked it out.0 -
The problem here is that the range, access to recharging points and prices if you're not recharging at home mean that you have problems if you do longer journeys - in terms of cost, journey time and risk of getting stranded. Plus associated stress.First.Aspect said:I read recently that like for like, EVs are 50% more expensive.
If you are just considering cost, I would have thought a iow milage user such as the OP would be better off with a petrol car for a while yet.
There has to be a crossover mileage, and someone is bound to have worked it out.
I'd say stick with petrol for a while longer unless you have some money burning a hole in your pocket and don't travel that far."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
In the UK I would say they are still certainly good value if you have a company car option or if your company does a salary sacrifice scheme. Most people I know who have company cars are switching to electric even though they are more likely to be people for whom range is an issue. I was on the verge of switching a few years back but changed jobs.
My main issues are the usuals of range / lack of infrastructure / charging time v time to simply refill a tank but also that the choices seem to be either small hatchback, mid size hatchback / saloon or medium / large SUV. There seem to be hardly any medium / large estate cars which is what I want for my next car.0 -
EVs can be financially worthwhile if you get a good scheme. There are some great salary sacrifice schemes where the payments are pretty small, and fully income tax / NIC excempt. Some also come with a "free charge card".
The reality is that, cost aside, EVs are better than ICE vehicles for almost all private journeys. The average journey is pretty short and even when travelling long distance (I drive to Aberdeen a few times per year) you are rarely driving for three or four hours without a break, then 15 mins to recharge, grab a coffee, go to the loo etc, works well. The system is not perfect, but it's nowhere near as bad as people try to make out, either. And it's always getting better. The idea is that whereever you go, you just plug your car in on trickle, so it's constantly getting a small top-up, so unlike an ICE you go from 0%-100% and back again, an EV should stay more around the 80%-100% mark except on very long journeys.
The only thing you can't get yet is a full EV estate, which would be handy.0 -
The biggest issue I've heard from those who have made the switch is turning up at a service area to find the chargers out of use or large queues for those that are working. My wife's cousin got ride of his and went back to a large diesel engined SUV after a few problems. Other than that they've generally said it just takes a bit more planning and knowing where you are going to stop on a journey as you get to know the real-life ranges you will get in different scenarios. I could certainly get by withh one these days and my 400 miles in a day work journeys seem to be behind me and a charge would last a week of normal mileage.0
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I think EVs really need a drive/garage/parker spot at home so making the charging easier. Clearly some people in terraced housing with communal parking do it but it's inconvenient to the owner and the pavement users.0
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Given as you say you don't drive far anyway (possible short trips) if you've got a driveway a charger could be fitted it would suit you. Don't forget as well EV's are getting kicked in the b0ll0cks at the moment on the used market so there are some good deals to be had. A couple of years old, 10,000miles...pep.fermi said:I own a cheap old and crappy Peugeot 207sw, petrol, market value today perhaps 2500-3000.
And I drive only ca 3000 km/yr. So switching to EV makes no sense for me, neither for environment nor for the costs. Still, I'm intrigued by EVs.
What's your opinion on EVs?0 -
No, I didn't write that. I wrote that my yearly mileage is very modest.focuszing723 said:
Given as you say you don't drive far anyway (possible short trips) if you've got a driveway a charger could be fitted it would suit you. Don't forget as well EV's are getting kicked in the b0ll0cks at the moment on the used market so there are some good deals to be had. A couple of years old, 10,000miles...pep.fermi said:I own a cheap old and crappy Peugeot 207sw, petrol, market value today perhaps 2500-3000.
And I drive only ca 3000 km/yr. So switching to EV makes no sense for me, neither for environment nor for the costs. Still, I'm intrigued by EVs.
What's your opinion on EVs?
In fact, I do drive long trips: like twice a year 1000km, plus another 1000 km of short trips, total 3000 km/yr.
So here my summary:
modest yearly mileage = EV not economical
some very long trips = modest range of EV potentially an issue
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A hybrid would be better then.pep.fermi said:
No, I didn't write that. I wrote that my yearly mileage is very modest.focuszing723 said:
Given as you say you don't drive far anyway (possible short trips) if you've got a driveway a charger could be fitted it would suit you. Don't forget as well EV's are getting kicked in the b0ll0cks at the moment on the used market so there are some good deals to be had. A couple of years old, 10,000miles...pep.fermi said:I own a cheap old and crappy Peugeot 207sw, petrol, market value today perhaps 2500-3000.
And I drive only ca 3000 km/yr. So switching to EV makes no sense for me, neither for environment nor for the costs. Still, I'm intrigued by EVs.
What's your opinion on EVs?
In fact, I do drive long trips: like twice a year 1000km, plus another 1000 km of short trips, total 3000 km/yr.
So here my summary:
modest yearly mileage = EV not economical
some very long trips = modest range of EV potentially an issue0 -
Pretty much what I said above.pep.fermi said:
No, I didn't write that. I wrote that my yearly mileage is very modest.focuszing723 said:
Given as you say you don't drive far anyway (possible short trips) if you've got a driveway a charger could be fitted it would suit you. Don't forget as well EV's are getting kicked in the b0ll0cks at the moment on the used market so there are some good deals to be had. A couple of years old, 10,000miles...pep.fermi said:I own a cheap old and crappy Peugeot 207sw, petrol, market value today perhaps 2500-3000.
And I drive only ca 3000 km/yr. So switching to EV makes no sense for me, neither for environment nor for the costs. Still, I'm intrigued by EVs.
What's your opinion on EVs?
In fact, I do drive long trips: like twice a year 1000km, plus another 1000 km of short trips, total 3000 km/yr.
So here my summary:
modest yearly mileage = EV not economical
some very long trips = modest range of EV potentially an issue"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Sounds like hiring a specialist vehicle for the two long trips wouldn't be crazy.0
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Yeah, just hire a car.kingstongraham said:Sounds like hiring a specialist vehicle for the two long trips wouldn't be crazy.
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Are EVs second hand better value than petrol then? How come?0
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They depreciate more slowly, presumably because ICE are being regulated outFirst.Aspect said:Are EVs second hand better value than petrol then? How come?
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Yeah, it can only be the demand isn't there. People not happy with charging network, end of lease deals, too much supply, people concerned about older cars, batteries...First.Aspect said:Are EVs second hand better value than petrol then? How come?
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Look at that thermal imagining shot though, they do make sense on an efficiency front.0
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That's what I'd assumed. But the comment above suggests otherwise.rick_chasey said:
They depreciate more slowly, presumably because ICE are being regulated outFirst.Aspect said:Are EVs second hand better value than petrol then? How come?
Fwiw my car is still worth 2/3 of what I paid for it 5 years ago. Which given its a fuel sucking 3L, is remarkable.
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I work in the Gas Turbine industry. Every current conference seems to have the theme that burning hydrogen is basically an easily solved problem. Getting the hydrogen to the Gas Turbine...not so much.lesfirth said:
There is little prospect of useable quantities of green hydrogen being available for decades and dont believe the blue hydrogen con being pushed by petrochemical companies.oxoman said:. I personally think hydrogen may be the best option. Time will tell.
I can see hydrogen being used in some specialized applications. But EVs seem to actually work quite well.0 -
If by specialised you mean shipping or renewable energy storage, then yes.Jezyboy said:
I work in the Gas Turbine industry. Every current conference seems to have the theme that burning hydrogen is basically an easily solved problem. Getting the hydrogen to the Gas Turbine...not so much.lesfirth said:
There is little prospect of useable quantities of green hydrogen being available for decades and dont believe the blue hydrogen con being pushed by petrochemical companies.oxoman said:. I personally think hydrogen may be the best option. Time will tell.
I can see hydrogen being used in some specialized applications. But EVs seem to actually work quite well.
Is not energy dense enough for aviation.0 -
I would love this to be the case but I looked at buying my daughter an EV, something like a Renault Zoe or a Leaf, so I could nick it when I need to go in the ULEZ (basically so I can take my bike to Hog Hill).focuszing723 said:
Don't forget as well EV's are getting kicked in the b0ll0cks at the moment on the used market so there are some good deals to be had. A couple of years old, 10,000miles...pep.fermi said:I own a cheap old and crappy Peugeot 207sw, petrol, market value today perhaps 2500-3000.
And I drive only ca 3000 km/yr. So switching to EV makes no sense for me, neither for environment nor for the costs. Still, I'm intrigued by EVs.
What's your opinion on EVs?
And sadly my conclusion was they are not being kicked in the b***** anywhere near enough, anything half acceptable was close to 10k (which is way too much for a first car for anyone).
If anyone can tell me I'm wrong and they can be much cheaper I am all ears...0 -
super_davo said:
I would love this to be the case but I looked at buying my daughter an EV, something like a Renault Zoe or a Leaf, so I could nick it when I need to go in the ULEZ (basically so I can take my bike to Hog Hill).focuszing723 said:
Don't forget as well EV's are getting kicked in the b0ll0cks at the moment on the used market so there are some good deals to be had. A couple of years old, 10,000miles...pep.fermi said:I own a cheap old and crappy Peugeot 207sw, petrol, market value today perhaps 2500-3000.
And I drive only ca 3000 km/yr. So switching to EV makes no sense for me, neither for environment nor for the costs. Still, I'm intrigued by EVs.
What's your opinion on EVs?
And sadly my conclusion was they are not being kicked in the b***** anywhere near enough, anything half acceptable was close to 10k (which is way too much for a first car for anyone).
If anyone can tell me I'm wrong and they can be much cheaper I am all ears...
Hang on though, how much does one cost new, at what's the price a couple of years old with around 10,000 miles on it? And 10k is nothing. Look up the longevity of EV battery packs, they've been around long enough. It's much better than you'd expect in terms of degredation.0 -
SUV?First.Aspect said:
That's what I'd assumed. But the comment above suggests otherwise.rick_chasey said:
They depreciate more slowly, presumably because ICE are being regulated outFirst.Aspect said:Are EVs second hand better value than petrol then? How come?
Fwiw my car is still worth 2/3 of what I paid for it 5 years ago. Which given its a fuel sucking 3L, is remarkable.0 -
Advantage to commercial vehicles that need to be moving to make money is quick refuelling. This advantage is likely to go away as batteries improve.oxoman said:Re the Hydrogen debate, several mainstream heavy plant equipment manufacturers are actively pushing Hydrogen as a replacement for diesel as battery power isn't an option. Hydrogen buses are currently being run and several delivery vans have been retrofitted to prove it can and does work.
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Curious to know the wear on the other parts, given the additional weight (I think?)focuszing723 said:super_davo said:
I would love this to be the case but I looked at buying my daughter an EV, something like a Renault Zoe or a Leaf, so I could nick it when I need to go in the ULEZ (basically so I can take my bike to Hog Hill).focuszing723 said:
Don't forget as well EV's are getting kicked in the b0ll0cks at the moment on the used market so there are some good deals to be had. A couple of years old, 10,000miles...pep.fermi said:I own a cheap old and crappy Peugeot 207sw, petrol, market value today perhaps 2500-3000.
And I drive only ca 3000 km/yr. So switching to EV makes no sense for me, neither for environment nor for the costs. Still, I'm intrigued by EVs.
What's your opinion on EVs?
And sadly my conclusion was they are not being kicked in the b***** anywhere near enough, anything half acceptable was close to 10k (which is way too much for a first car for anyone).
If anyone can tell me I'm wrong and they can be much cheaper I am all ears...
Hang on though, how much does one cost new, at what's the price a couple of years old with around 10,000 miles on it? And 10k is nothing. Look up the longevity of EV battery packs, they've been around long enough. It's much better than you'd expect in terms of degredation.0
