What's your opinion about electric car?
Comments
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Often they are being forced into getting an EV, or a hybrid, for a company car because many companies have now ruled out ICE cars from their policies completely. Unless you go for a cash option and get whatever suits you.Pross said:In the UK I would say they are still certainly good value if you have a company car option or if your company does a salary sacrifice scheme. Most people I know who have company cars are switching to electric even though they are more likely to be people for whom range is an issue.
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Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.surrey_commuter said:
I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.rick_chasey said:Speaking of electric cars.
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Which I guess is what the BIK rules were aiming for and also helps companies with their SHEQ / greenwashing policies. I also assume it means there will become a much larger second hand market over the next few years with, in my experience, company fleet policies generally being on a cycle of 3 years or less.katani said:
They are being forced into getting an EV, or a hybrid, for a company car because many companies have now ruled out ICE cars from their policies completely. Unless you go for a cash option and get your own car.Pross said:In the UK I would say they are still certainly good value if you have a company car option or if your company does a salary sacrifice scheme. Most people I know who have company cars are switching to electric even though they are more likely to be people for whom range is an issue.
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It's illustrating the massive expansion of Chinese production from outside top 15 to first place in 3 years.Pross said:
Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.surrey_commuter said:
I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.rick_chasey said:Speaking of electric cars.
Am I the only one who can see the words?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
No you aren't. It's pretty clear to me.rjsterry said:
It's illustrating the massive expansion of Chinese production from outside top 15 to first place in 3 years.Pross said:
Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.surrey_commuter said:
I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.rick_chasey said:Speaking of electric cars.
Am I the only one who can see the words?0 -
What's missing, I think, are the figures to demonstrate how much things have changed from 2020. Maybe it's my PC / Twitter settings, but all I can see ins the 2020 graphic. On which note, the size of the UK car export operations was a surprise.rjsterry said:
It's illustrating the massive expansion of Chinese production from outside top 15 to first place in 3 years.Pross said:
Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.surrey_commuter said:
I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.rick_chasey said:Speaking of electric cars.
Am I the only one who can see the words?0 -
Yeah think it’s really hard to underestimate how quickly china has come online and how hard German and Japanese cars are falling0
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All I get is the 2020 graphic. Maybe it is because I'm not on Twitter or whatever stupid name it has this week. It takes me to the Twitter page and says click on country for more information but nothing happens when I click.rjsterry said:
It's illustrating the massive expansion of Chinese production from outside top 15 to first place in 3 years.Pross said:
Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.surrey_commuter said:
I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.rick_chasey said:Speaking of electric cars.
Am I the only one who can see the words?
Edit - sounds like W&G gets the same.0 -
I went for an EV 3 years ago on a company car scheme as it seemed the cheapest option, BIK was 0%, vs 25% on an ICE car and 6% on a hybrid. This was before the company removed ICE cars from the scheme and despite everyone around telling me it wasn't a wise idea, but they were talking out of their arses having never owned an EV themselves. We also have got free charging points at every office location and another one by a shopping centre which I live right next to, which at that time was hardly used at all and with no stay time restrictions either.
So having those in place, I calculated money saved on not having to buy diesel will amount to some £2k per year which I planned to spend on maintaining my cycling and running habit through C2W, buying spares, running shoes etc. It would have actually been much more after the fuel price hike.
I did have fears about the limited range and, at the time, complete lack of public charging points, but it has actually been a good thing after all as it has made me think carefully which journeys I do really need to make by car (or make at all to begin with) and which I can make of foot or on a bicycle, or on a train, and it turned out more often than not I didn't need the car.
Lots of the journeys I was making by car in the past were unnecessary and daft. Like driving 5 hours return to run an hour long fell race, which I now can't do because the car can't go that far on a single charge, so I have to choose races closer to where I live.
I wonder how being in a similar situation would make most motoring people realise how many pointless unnecessary car journeys they make.0 -
You can see the same as me then, and it seems perfectly clear.Pross said:
Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.surrey_commuter said:
I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.rick_chasey said:Speaking of electric cars.
China in 2020 had 1.57% as per the graphic, and now the story in the FT tweet is that China is going to become the largest exporter. That's a pretty big shift in only 3 years.0 -
The comment above the graphic mentions that they're about to take first place and look where they were just three years ago. Granted, I'm taking that at face value.Pross said:
All I get is the 2020 graphic. Maybe it is because I'm not on Twitter or whatever stupid name it has this week. It takes me to the Twitter page and says click on country for more information but nothing happens when I click.rjsterry said:
It's illustrating the massive expansion of Chinese production from outside top 15 to first place in 3 years.Pross said:
Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.surrey_commuter said:
I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.rick_chasey said:Speaking of electric cars.
Am I the only one who can see the words?
Edit - sounds like W&G gets the same.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
OK, I was reading those smaller bits in each colour block as being the market for the export country which was the largest number in the block but can see now it is splitting by continent. The bit that confused me the most though was the text saying China to overtake Japan into top spot whereas the graphic was showing Germany at the top. I hadn't picked up that the one set of data was being displayed graphically whilst the 2023 stuff was in a separate link. I still think the graphic is a poor way of displaying the information, what's wrong with a pie chart?kingstongraham said:
You can see the same as me then, and it seems perfectly clear.Pross said:
Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.surrey_commuter said:
I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.rick_chasey said:Speaking of electric cars.
China in 2020 had 1.57% as per the graphic, and now the story in the FT tweet is that China is going to become the largest exporter. That's a pretty big shift in only 3 years.0 -
I'm puzzled how China has overtaken Japan when Germany was the clear leader in 2020. What's happened to Germany?kingstongraham said:
You can see the same as me then, and it seems perfectly clear.Pross said:
Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.surrey_commuter said:
I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.rick_chasey said:Speaking of electric cars.
China in 2020 had 1.57% as per the graphic, and now the story in the FT tweet is that China is going to become the largest exporter. That's a pretty big shift in only 3 years.0 -
My general rule is that if I'm trying to make a numerical point, I will not leave it as "an exercise for the reader" to piece everything together. In this case, I would have presented 2020 data, then 2023 data in the same format, with the summary of key points up front and at the end.Pross said:I still think the graphic is a poor way of displaying the information, what's wrong with a pie chart?
If I'm trying to prove a theory to myself then I'll happily go digging for as a long as it takes.
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I think I've worked it out.TheBigBean said:
I'm puzzled how China has overtaken Japan when Germany was the clear leader in 2020. What's happened to Germany?kingstongraham said:
You can see the same as me then, and it seems perfectly clear.Pross said:
Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.surrey_commuter said:
I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.rick_chasey said:Speaking of electric cars.
China in 2020 had 1.57% as per the graphic, and now the story in the FT tweet is that China is going to become the largest exporter. That's a pretty big shift in only 3 years.
The FT article is about numbers of vehicles, and has this graph:
The other graphic is about value of cars, so Germany is higher due to the expensive wankpanzers it builds.
Still a really big shift.0 -
To make one of CS's favourite points, there's some dodgy y-axis work going on there!kingstongraham said:
I think I've worked it out.TheBigBean said:
I'm puzzled how China has overtaken Japan when Germany was the clear leader in 2020. What's happened to Germany?kingstongraham said:
You can see the same as me then, and it seems perfectly clear.Pross said:
Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.surrey_commuter said:
I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.rick_chasey said:Speaking of electric cars.
China in 2020 had 1.57% as per the graphic, and now the story in the FT tweet is that China is going to become the largest exporter. That's a pretty big shift in only 3 years.
The FT article is about numbers of vehicles, and has this graph:
The other graphic is about value of cars, so Germany is higher due to the expensive wankpanzers it builds.
Still a really big shift.
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So the guy who did the Tweet was comparing apples with oranges and leaving people to work it all out for themselves?kingstongraham said:
I think I've worked it out.TheBigBean said:
I'm puzzled how China has overtaken Japan when Germany was the clear leader in 2020. What's happened to Germany?kingstongraham said:
You can see the same as me then, and it seems perfectly clear.Pross said:
Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.surrey_commuter said:
I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.rick_chasey said:Speaking of electric cars.
China in 2020 had 1.57% as per the graphic, and now the story in the FT tweet is that China is going to become the largest exporter. That's a pretty big shift in only 3 years.
The FT article is about numbers of vehicles, and has this graph:
The other graphic is about value of cars, so Germany is higher due to the expensive wankpanzers it builds.
Still a really big shift.0 -
Thanks. If they sorted out the y-axis, the FT graph would be ok.kingstongraham said:
I think I've worked it out.TheBigBean said:
I'm puzzled how China has overtaken Japan when Germany was the clear leader in 2020. What's happened to Germany?kingstongraham said:
You can see the same as me then, and it seems perfectly clear.Pross said:
Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.surrey_commuter said:
I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.rick_chasey said:Speaking of electric cars.
China in 2020 had 1.57% as per the graphic, and now the story in the FT tweet is that China is going to become the largest exporter. That's a pretty big shift in only 3 years.
The FT article is about numbers of vehicles, and has this graph:
The other graphic is about value of cars, so Germany is higher due to the expensive wankpanzers it builds.
Still a really big shift.0 -
The article itself seems to be suggesting that one of the reasons for the upsurge is that China are producing too many cars for the domestic market. It also seems to include all cars made in China even if they are for a foreign owned company like Tesla (if I skim read it correctly) so could it also be reflective of more production being moved there?0
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First point:wallace_and_gromit said:
My general rule is that if I'm trying to make a numerical point, I will not leave it as "an exercise for the reader" to piece everything together. In this case, I would have presented 2020 data, then 2023 data in the same format, with the summary of key points up front and at the end.Pross said:I still think the graphic is a poor way of displaying the information, what's wrong with a pie chart?
If I'm trying to prove a theory to myself then I'll happily go digging for as a long as it takes.
FT publishes article noting that China is about to become leading exporter of cars.
Second point:
Bloke on Twitter digs out chart from 2020 to emphasise how quickly that change has happened.
Point two doesn't require a second chart as that has already been established by the FT article to which bloke on Twitter is responding.
RC then reposts on here and everyone claims they can't understand.
🤷🏻♂️1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Not sure a bunch of empty space would add information.TheBigBean said:
Thanks. If they sorted out the y-axis, the FT graph would be ok.kingstongraham said:
I think I've worked it out.TheBigBean said:
I'm puzzled how China has overtaken Japan when Germany was the clear leader in 2020. What's happened to Germany?kingstongraham said:
You can see the same as me then, and it seems perfectly clear.Pross said:
Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.surrey_commuter said:
I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.rick_chasey said:Speaking of electric cars.
China in 2020 had 1.57% as per the graphic, and now the story in the FT tweet is that China is going to become the largest exporter. That's a pretty big shift in only 3 years.
The FT article is about numbers of vehicles, and has this graph:
The other graphic is about value of cars, so Germany is higher due to the expensive wankpanzers it builds.
Still a really big shift.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
In this instance it didn't have anything to do with who posted it, I simply didn't understand the graphic (and as you have pointed out the Twitter guy has used a different measure to what the FT article. The FT article was fine, the Tweet was a bit pointless once you dig into it.rjsterry said:
First point:wallace_and_gromit said:
My general rule is that if I'm trying to make a numerical point, I will not leave it as "an exercise for the reader" to piece everything together. In this case, I would have presented 2020 data, then 2023 data in the same format, with the summary of key points up front and at the end.Pross said:I still think the graphic is a poor way of displaying the information, what's wrong with a pie chart?
If I'm trying to prove a theory to myself then I'll happily go digging for as a long as it takes.
FT publishes article noting that China is about to become leading exporter of cars.
Second point:
Bloke on Twitter digs out chart from 2020 to emphasise how quickly that change has happened.
Point two doesn't require a second chart as that has already been established by the FT article to which bloke on Twitter is responding.
RC then reposts on here and everyone claims they can't understand.
🤷🏻♂️0 -
It would show that China hasn't increased from zero. There is a reason it is considered poor form.rjsterry said:
Not sure a bunch of empty space would add information.TheBigBean said:
Thanks. If they sorted out the y-axis, the FT graph would be ok.kingstongraham said:
I think I've worked it out.TheBigBean said:
I'm puzzled how China has overtaken Japan when Germany was the clear leader in 2020. What's happened to Germany?kingstongraham said:
You can see the same as me then, and it seems perfectly clear.Pross said:
Agreed, I'm reading that as Germany being the largest exporter in 2020 with Japan second and China nowhere to be seen yet the text says China is going to leapfrog Japan into top spot. I assume the other countries within each colour block shows where their export markets are but I'm probably wrong. It seems a really poor way to present the data.surrey_commuter said:
I once read that you should only use a graphic if it helps explain your point.rick_chasey said:Speaking of electric cars.
China in 2020 had 1.57% as per the graphic, and now the story in the FT tweet is that China is going to become the largest exporter. That's a pretty big shift in only 3 years.
The FT article is about numbers of vehicles, and has this graph:
The other graphic is about value of cars, so Germany is higher due to the expensive wankpanzers it builds.
Still a really big shift.0 -
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Don't recall saying I didn't understand. Just that I CBA to go digging in links to help someone make their point. I don't subscribe to the FT so can't read their articles. All I could see was the 2020 chart and a headline.rjsterry said:
First point:wallace_and_gromit said:
My general rule is that if I'm trying to make a numerical point, I will not leave it as "an exercise for the reader" to piece everything together. In this case, I would have presented 2020 data, then 2023 data in the same format, with the summary of key points up front and at the end.Pross said:I still think the graphic is a poor way of displaying the information, what's wrong with a pie chart?
If I'm trying to prove a theory to myself then I'll happily go digging for as a long as it takes.
FT publishes article noting that China is about to become leading exporter of cars.
Second point:
Bloke on Twitter digs out chart from 2020 to emphasise how quickly that change has happened.
Point two doesn't require a second chart as that has already been established by the FT article to which bloke on Twitter is responding.
RC then reposts on here and everyone claims they can't understand.
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I'm sure we are, but what does this mean?rick_chasey said:Very on brand today, lads.
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Moaning about the graphics instead of talking about the data.wallace_and_gromit said:
I'm sure we are, but what does this mean?rick_chasey said:Very on brand today, lads.
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Am struggling to read the small text - what's wrong woth the y axis?0
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Starts at 100k and goes up to 400k. Should start at zero. Presentation used makes changes over time look relatively more significant.First.Aspect said:Am struggling to read the small text - what's wrong woth the y axis?
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So the interesting topic is that China has come from being a tiny player to world leader in cars in 3 years, but the forum is more interested in the quality of the tweet and the chart.wallace_and_gromit said:
I'm sure we are, but what does this mean?rick_chasey said:Very on brand today, lads.
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