TDF 2023: Stage 15: - Les Gets to Saint Gervais, 180km ***Spoilers***

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  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,879
    Lanterne_Rogue said:

    I really hope it's not the time trial that decides this. The racing on the road has been engrossing, and it feels like it should be decided shoulder to shoulder and not as seconds on a clock.

    Pog could beat Vingegaard by 10 seconds in the TT just to make it even? 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
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  • bianchi_dave
    bianchi_dave Posts: 847
    RichN95. said:

    Chapeau to Wouter Lambertus Martinus Henricus Poels, to give him his full name

    Commander of the Sky train of the north and loyal servant to the TRUE emperor, Christopherus Froomus, and had his vengeance, in this stage or the next
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  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,972
    Jonas will put time into pog on the tt
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,972
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    kingstongraham said:

    They've got a tt then a stage with almost 1000 more metres of climbing

    Col de Loze/
    Courchevel on Wednesday. The TT can't really decide this, as there's always an opportunity there. It's another stage that favours Jonas on paper. I think he's spent two weeks trying to soften Pog up for these two days. It's going to be fun finding out if it's worked
    I think pog is fading ...all that mattered today for jumbo is Jonas gets to start behind pog in the tt
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,804
    I’ve ridden all the climbs on todays stage (several of them on loads of occasions) but that last one is a frickin horror. Only upside was a stall handing out a selection of Savoie delicacies pre Dauphiné stage finish. I ate my body weight in meat and cheese then had a lie down to wait for Yates A to cross the line.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,972
    thegreatdivide said:

    I’ve ridden all the climbs on todays stage (several of them on loads of occasions) but that last one is a frickin horror. Only upside was a stall handing out a selection of Savoie delicacies pre Dauphiné stage finish. I ate my body weight in meat and cheese then had a lie down to wait for Yates A to cross the line.

    That'll learn yer
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,871
    mididoctors said:

    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    kingstongraham said:

    They've got a tt then a stage with almost 1000 more metres of climbing

    Col de Loze/
    Courchevel on Wednesday. The TT can't really decide this, as there's always an opportunity there. It's another stage that favours Jonas on paper. I think he's spent two weeks trying to soften Pog up for these two days. It's going to be fun finding out if it's worked
    I think pog is fading ...all that mattered today for jumbo is Jonas gets to start behind pog in the tt
    Odd that it seems, given the amount of racing each has had in recent weeks, but I think Pog is the one who is fading too.

    I reckon, come Tuesday, Jonas's 10 second lead will be 30.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 6,965
    Col de lka Loze is an utter brute - regular 20% sections, and the final 300m at 2,400 m is also 20% ramp. Narrow road on the Courchevel side, and I believe a final ramp on the Altiport.

    The road from Brides les Bains to Courvhevel 1300 is a stiff drag, and there are a couple of steepish ramps on the balcony road from 1300 to Meribel.

    It's going to be a hard, hard day.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,344
    andyrac said:

    mididoctors said:

    Jonas will put time into pog on the tt

    I hope not; in an era of exciting riders, he's a boring automaton. He's not one to inspire you to get out and ride your bike......
    Wow, some people are never satisfied

    We're watching one of the great rivalries, the toe-to-toe punches we've always wanted to see. Jumbo-Visma setting up long range attacks, Pog countering with burning sprints, and one of the protagonists is "a boring automaton"? This and the last Tour have been the best Tours i've seen since the late eighties (where we got half an hour highlights), and that's been due to Vingegaard being aggressive and daring. Granon last year was the single best and most daring stage I've seen, barring maybe Froome's Giro miracle
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  • photonic69
    photonic69 Posts: 2,454
    Are Ellen van Dijk and Peter Kennaugh the same person?
    They look so similar.


    Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.

  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,879
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    andyrac said:

    mididoctors said:

    Jonas will put time into pog on the tt

    I hope not; in an era of exciting riders, he's a boring automaton. He's not one to inspire you to get out and ride your bike......
    Wow, some people are never satisfied

    ...
    Every hero needs a villain.
    Whoever you decide the hero to be.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,133
    You'd have thought Jumbo-Visma learnt the "don't wait until the final big stage" lesson the hard way.

    Vingegaard's defensive tactics are going to look wrong-headed if he doesn't win.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,344
    andyp said:

    You'd have thought Jumbo-Visma learnt the "don't wait until the final big stage" lesson the hard way.

    Vingegaard's defensive tactics are going to look wrong-headed if he doesn't win.

    Sometimes I'm not sure we're watching the same race.

    Vingegaard won the Tour on stage 5 with an attack from distance, then lost most of tat time on stage 5 after trying to set up another big attack.
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  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,972
    andyrac said:

    mididoctors said:

    Jonas will put time into pog on the tt

    I hope not; in an era of exciting riders, he's a boring automaton. He's not one to inspire you to get out and ride your bike......
    Pog is the more likable racer and remember my analysis is just another asshat on the internet talking s4ite
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,972
    Who ever loses is going to get blamed for not doing X y or z
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,871
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    andyp said:

    You'd have thought Jumbo-Visma learnt the "don't wait until the final big stage" lesson the hard way.

    Vingegaard's defensive tactics are going to look wrong-headed if he doesn't win.

    Sometimes I'm not sure we're watching the same race.

    Vingegaard won the Tour on stage 5 with an attack from distance, then lost most of tat time on stage 5 after trying to set up another big attack.
    The subtle difference for me is that the first week was exciting, due to the racing, while the second week was exciting, (I prefer to describe it as tense) due to the race situation.

    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,133
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    andyp said:

    You'd have thought Jumbo-Visma learnt the "don't wait until the final big stage" lesson the hard way.

    Vingegaard's defensive tactics are going to look wrong-headed if he doesn't win.

    Sometimes I'm not sure we're watching the same race.

    Vingegaard won the Tour on stage 5 with an attack from distance, then lost most of tat time on stage 5 after trying to set up another big attack.
    He's not taken the front since, apart from the sprint for the time bonuses yesterday.

    He's leading so I get the tactics, but he (and the team management) seem convinced that he'll get enough time in the TT on Tuesday and the Loze stage on Wednesday to hold off Pogacar. I'm not convinced personally, and if he doesn't then comparisons to the way Jumbo-Visma lost the 2020 Tour are inevitable.

    He won the Tour last year by going on the attack, and using Pogacar's willingness to fight fire with fire against him. That tactic worked well, and whilst I appreciate it might not work twice, reverting back to 2020 tactics seems risky, especially when they gained time already this Tour by attacking Pogacar.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,344
    andyp said:

    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    andyp said:

    You'd have thought Jumbo-Visma learnt the "don't wait until the final big stage" lesson the hard way.

    Vingegaard's defensive tactics are going to look wrong-headed if he doesn't win.

    Sometimes I'm not sure we're watching the same race.

    Vingegaard won the Tour on stage 5 with an attack from distance, then lost most of tat time on stage 5 after trying to set up another big attack.
    He's not taken the front since, apart from the sprint for the time bonuses yesterday.

    He's leading so I get the tactics, but he (and the team management) seem convinced that he'll get enough time in the TT on Tuesday and the Loze stage on Wednesday to hold off Pogacar. I'm not convinced personally, and if he doesn't then comparisons to the way Jumbo-Visma lost the 2020 Tour are inevitable.

    He won the Tour last year by going on the attack, and using Pogacar's willingness to fight fire with fire against him. That tactic worked well, and whilst I appreciate it might not work twice, reverting back to 2020 tactics seems risky, especially when they gained time already this Tour by attacking Pogacar.
    He's been using his team to try and create a situation to exploit, but it hasn't worked yet. If he hasn't got the legs to make the difference there's not much he can do yet, is there?
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  • stage_hunter
    stage_hunter Posts: 236
    andyp said:

    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    andyp said:

    You'd have thought Jumbo-Visma learnt the "don't wait until the final big stage" lesson the hard way.

    Vingegaard's defensive tactics are going to look wrong-headed if he doesn't win.

    Sometimes I'm not sure we're watching the same race.

    Vingegaard won the Tour on stage 5 with an attack from distance, then lost most of tat time on stage 5 after trying to set up another big attack.
    He's not taken the front since, apart from the sprint for the time bonuses yesterday.

    He's leading so I get the tactics, but he (and the team management) seem convinced that he'll get enough time in the TT on Tuesday and the Loze stage on Wednesday to hold off Pogacar. I'm not convinced personally, and if he doesn't then comparisons to the way Jumbo-Visma lost the 2020 Tour are inevitable.

    He won the Tour last year by going on the attack, and using Pogacar's willingness to fight fire with fire against him. That tactic worked well, and whilst I appreciate it might not work twice, reverting back to 2020 tactics seems risky, especially when they gained time already this Tour by attacking Pogacar.
    Also if we are talking seconds, might Pog have a go at the Champs sprint?
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,955
    Not sure if it's been posted on here already

    Apparently this would be the first time that the same two riders have come 1-2 for 3 successive years

    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • wavefront
    wavefront Posts: 397
    andyrac said:

    mididoctors said:

    Jonas will put time into pog on the tt

    I hope not; in an era of exciting riders, he's a boring automaton. He's not one to inspire you to get out and ride your bike......
    Funniest thing I’ve read all week! I’ll watch the exciting Jonas and leave you to watch the boring one as we’re obviously watching two different riders!
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,782
    RichN95. said:

    Chapeau to Wouter Lambertus Martinus Henricus Poels, to give him his full name

    Is he one of Boris’s illegitimate horde?
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,091
    Pross said:

    RichN95. said:

    Chapeau to Wouter Lambertus Martinus Henricus Poels, to give him his full name

    Is he one of Boris’s illegitimate horde?
    Proved himself useful before being given any rewards, so probably not.
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • wakemalcolm
    wakemalcolm Posts: 686
    Most bizarre thing about this was Ned calling it as Poel's biggest career victory. Has the Iain Forfar hierarchy of race prestige been redrawn with Monuments being relegated to chippers or was it maybe just the biggest career moment that Ned had commentated on?
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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,166
    edited July 2023
    Poels is the oldest Dutch Grand Tour stage winner ever.

    The old Sky train are holding up pretty well
    Poels (35) stage win
    Kwaitkowski (33) stage win
    Castroviejo (36) currently 16th on GC
    following on from Thomas (37) at the Giro

    Bet your house on Boasson Hagen (36) to bag a third week stage win
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,399
    Ha ha, I had the exact same thought... 😁

    I had to leave suddenly so am only just catching up. It's such an intriguing race to watch...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,101
    mididoctors said:

    andyrac said:

    mididoctors said:

    Jonas will put time into pog on the tt

    I hope not; in an era of exciting riders, he's a boring automaton. He's not one to inspire you to get out and ride your bike......
    Pog is the more likable racer and remember my analysis is just another asshat on the internet talking s4ite
    Going back almost 20 years, I can't recall disliking a rider as much as I do Jonas Vingegaard Rasmussen. And I tend to have a soft spot for Danes. Even my Danish cycling buddy concedes that he cheers for him because he feels obliged to rather than because of any respect or admiration for him.
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,847
    You do feel they’re a little scared of each other.

    Neither, at this point in the race, has the confidence to take it to the other rider.

    The problem with racing like this like they have in week two is one of them is gonna regret it once the TT comes.
    _

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