TDF 2023: Stage 15: - Les Gets to Saint Gervais, 180km ***Spoilers***
Comments
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Best scenario for the race a Pog lead after the TT?0
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I think it’s more a case that they’ve been tiring themselves out landing minor blows for the last two weeks and are feeling it. There’s probably a bit of worry that if they try to swing the knock out punch they’ll get hit on the counter but both riders (and their teams) have been racing hard virtually every day since the start.rick_chasey said:You do feel they’re a little scared of each other.
Neither, at this point in the race, has the confidence to take it to the other rider.
The problem with racing like this like they have in week two is one of them is gonna regret it once the TT comes.
I’m not sure the the TT will split them significantly, hopefully just enough that one has to attack on the final mountain stage but it’s great to go into the final week with a genuine contest despite a lot of high quality racing.0 -
Imo it is as simple as they are both evenly matched on current form.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
And both pretty creamed.Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.0
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I admire the confidence of anyone saying what will happen next.3
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DeadCalm said:
Going back almost 20 years, I can't recall disliking a rider as much as I do Jonas Vingegaard Rasmussen. And I tend to have a soft spot for Danes. Even my Danish cycling buddy concedes that he cheers for him because he feels obliged to rather than because of any respect or admiration for him.mididoctors said:
Pog is the more likable racer and remember my analysis is just another asshat on the internet talking s4iteandyrac said:
I hope not; in an era of exciting riders, he's a boring automaton. He's not one to inspire you to get out and ride your bike......mididoctors said:Jonas will put time into pog on the tt
I don't get Jonas hate at all ..maybe less charasmatic
Of the two ...
Jumbo changed their game plan after cauterets
They went for the knock out blow and it backfired . And they changed strategy and it seems to be working
I'll give jumbo and Jonas credit for that . A lot depends on the tt now ."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm1 -
Yeah The stakes are so high if your wrong the consequences are life and death.kingstongraham said:I admire the confidence of anyone saying what will happen next.
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Let's play it through ... If pog gains 11+ secs and goes into yellow ..jumbo have to go all in on the lozemrb123 said:Best scenario for the race a Pog lead after the TT?
If Jonas gains time it's hard to see UAE riding all day to the Loze for the hail mary ...just stick WvA in the break and he tugs the break up the road gobbling up the bonus. basically jumbo carry on doing what they are already doing . The way UAE neutralises this is get Adam up the road ...not going to be easy at all .
Stage 20 is going to be bonkers everyone on GC in the top 15 looking to make moves ., anything could happen"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
It's not hate, but a strong dislike. In contrast to my dislike of MVDP, it isn't irrational though.mididoctors said:I don't get Jonas hate at all ..
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If Vingegaard stays in yellow I can't see UAE not trying to bring the break back so it's a GC battle for the stage win and the bonus on the Loze.
If Pogacar needs time then whether that's 1 second or 30 seconds the bonus is going to help. Unless Pogacar has cut that 10 second lead then all Vingegaard needs to do is follow - he might counter attack if he feels good but he's not going to risk going into the red if there's a chance Pogacar can follow and go over the top.
If Pogacar is in yellow then similarly I can't see JV not going all in to bring the race back together and take the win and bonuses.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I think that's all it takes.mididoctors said:DeadCalm said:
Going back almost 20 years, I can't recall disliking a rider as much as I do Jonas Vingegaard Rasmussen. And I tend to have a soft spot for Danes. Even my Danish cycling buddy concedes that he cheers for him because he feels obliged to rather than because of any respect or admiration for him.mididoctors said:
Pog is the more likable racer and remember my analysis is just another asshat on the internet talking s4iteandyrac said:
I hope not; in an era of exciting riders, he's a boring automaton. He's not one to inspire you to get out and ride your bike......mididoctors said:Jonas will put time into pog on the tt
I don't get Jonas hate at all ..maybe less charasmatic
Of the two ...
Jumbo changed their game plan after cauterets
They went for the knock out blow and it backfired . And they changed strategy and it seems to be working
I'll give jumbo and Jonas credit for that . A lot depends on the tt now .
Preferring the more colourful character almost automatically leads to a dislike of his main adversary.
There doesn't need to be a concrete reason.
It's why I have always tried to steer away from having favourite riders.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
But then the problem is that you don't care who wins...0
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There's 500-700 m of flat at the top of the Loze before the descent starts properly.DeVlaeminck said:If Vingegaard stays in yellow I can't see UAE not trying to bring the break back so it's a GC battle for the stage win and the bonus on the Loze.
If Pogacar needs time then whether that's 1 second or 30 seconds the bonus is going to help. Unless Pogacar has cut that 10 second lead then all Vingegaard needs to do is follow - he might counter attack if he feels good but he's not going to risk going into the red if there's a chance Pogacar can follow and go over the top.
If Pogacar is in yellow then similarly I can't see JV not going all in to bring the race back together and take the win and bonuses.
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If JV are in yellow after the TT why bring the bonus secs into play ? WvA is the asymmetric power they have ... JV can create a break he drives to the finish . UAE chasing is not guaranteed as much as a JV chase .DeVlaeminck said:If Vingegaard stays in yellow I can't see UAE not trying to bring the break back so it's a GC battle for the stage win and the bonus on the Loze.
If Pogacar needs time then whether that's 1 second or 30 seconds the bonus is going to help. Unless Pogacar has cut that 10 second lead then all Vingegaard needs to do is follow - he might counter attack if he feels good but he's not going to risk going into the red if there's a chance Pogacar can follow and go over the top.
If Pogacar is in yellow then similarly I can't see JV not going all in to bring the race back together and take the win and bonuses."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
The Tour website has Stage 18 as hilly and I initially thought it might be one where Pog could steal some bonus seconds in a reduced bunch sprint but looking at the profile I'm struggling to understand why it is listed as hilly. It has two 4th cat climbs with average gradients of less than 5% plus a few other little unclassified lumps but looks nailed on for a bunch sprint if the break doesn't stay away.0
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Stage 20 in the Vosges does look very suited to Pog though so if there's still only a few seconds between them by then that could be a fantastic stage. The ideal scenario would be Pog to be less than 10" behind going into that stage.0
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Unless he's run your cat over or something, it's irrationalDeadCalm said:1 -
Or shot it.Lanterne_Rogue said:
Unless he's run your cat over or something, it's irrationalDeadCalm said:2 -
An interesting definition of 'irrational'.Lanterne_Rogue said:
Unless he's run your cat over or something, it's irrationalDeadCalm said:
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I understand now there is no confidence there, so I admire it less.mididoctors said:
Yeah The stakes are so high if your wrong the consequences are life and death.kingstongraham said:I admire the confidence of anyone saying what will happen next.
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mididoctors said:
If JV are in yellow after the TT why bring the bonus secs into play ? WvA is the asymmetric power they have ... JV can create a break he drives to the finish . UAE chasing is not guaranteed as much as a JV chase .DeVlaeminck said:If Vingegaard stays in yellow I can't see UAE not trying to bring the break back so it's a GC battle for the stage win and the bonus on the Loze.
If Pogacar needs time then whether that's 1 second or 30 seconds the bonus is going to help. Unless Pogacar has cut that 10 second lead then all Vingegaard needs to do is follow - he might counter attack if he feels good but he's not going to risk going into the red if there's a chance Pogacar can follow and go over the top.
If Pogacar is in yellow then similarly I can't see JV not going all in to bring the race back together and take the win and bonuses.
If JV are in yellow UAE will want the bonus seconds - why wouldn't they go all in to get them?
WvA is not superhuman he can't guarantee a break can stay away. Yes UAE can't guarantee bringing the break back either but they have to try as Pogacar is probably a favourite to take the bonuses if the big two come to them together - and if Pogacar can drop Vingegaard then they add to whatever gap he gets. Either way if you are trying to make up time on the penultimate decisive stage you have to take a risk.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Yes and ?Dorset_Boy said:
There's 500-700 m of flat at the top of the Loze before the descent starts properly.DeVlaeminck said:If Vingegaard stays in yellow I can't see UAE not trying to bring the break back so it's a GC battle for the stage win and the bonus on the Loze.
If Pogacar needs time then whether that's 1 second or 30 seconds the bonus is going to help. Unless Pogacar has cut that 10 second lead then all Vingegaard needs to do is follow - he might counter attack if he feels good but he's not going to risk going into the red if there's a chance Pogacar can follow and go over the top.
If Pogacar is in yellow then similarly I can't see JV not going all in to bring the race back together and take the win and bonuses.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Yeah it's not a given but it burns off UAE domestiquesDeVlaeminck said:mididoctors said:
If JV are in yellow after the TT why bring the bonus secs into play ? WvA is the asymmetric power they have ... JV can create a break he drives to the finish . UAE chasing is not guaranteed as much as a JV chase .DeVlaeminck said:If Vingegaard stays in yellow I can't see UAE not trying to bring the break back so it's a GC battle for the stage win and the bonus on the Loze.
If Pogacar needs time then whether that's 1 second or 30 seconds the bonus is going to help. Unless Pogacar has cut that 10 second lead then all Vingegaard needs to do is follow - he might counter attack if he feels good but he's not going to risk going into the red if there's a chance Pogacar can follow and go over the top.
If Pogacar is in yellow then similarly I can't see JV not going all in to bring the race back together and take the win and bonuses.
If JV are in yellow UAE will want the bonus seconds - why wouldn't they go all in to get them?
WvA is not superhuman he can't guarantee a break can stay away. Yes UAE can't guarantee bringing the break back either but they have to try as Pogacar is probably a favourite to take the bonuses if the big two come to them together - and if Pogacar can drop Vingegaard then they add to whatever gap he gets. Either way if you are trying to make up time on the penultimate decisive stage you have to take a risk."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
LOLkingstongraham said:
I understand now there is no confidence there, so I admire it less.mididoctors said:
Yeah The stakes are so high if your wrong the consequences are life and death.kingstongraham said:I admire the confidence of anyone saying what will happen next.
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
This stage is chaos last chance saloon for the top 10 shuffle ....going to be a ridiculous spectacle . Comic relief stagePross said:Stage 20 in the Vosges does look very suited to Pog though so if there's still only a few seconds between them by then that could be a fantastic stage. The ideal scenario would be Pog to be less than 10" behind going into that stage.
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Jan ullrich cracked on a very similar stage in 97 also at the tours end ... Only virenques lack of balls saved him ....that and udo bolts dragging ullrich over the ballon"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
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