TDF 2023: Stage 2:– Vitoria-Gasteiz to San Sebastian, 209km ***Spoilers***

RichN95.

rick_chasey said:

WvA lost it the same reason he doesn’t do as well as he should in one dayers, which is he tries to solve every tactical situation himself.

And rarely causing his own situation. I think he'd be a better rider if he had a slightly slower sprint.

webboo

Watching theNetflix doc, it seemed that when they were discussing team tactics often Wout would be saying “ Well I could win today If I go for it rather than be the team player”
Did I imagine this or was that the case.

daniel_b

daniel_b said:

r0bh said:

Pog taking the mick out of WvA's reaction

Missed that, something he did as he crossed the line?

Found it now, after scanning the race finish - it was on the warm down.

mrb123

Excellent first two days anyway.

Lanterne_Rogue

webboo said:

Watching theNetflix doc, it seemed that when they were discussing team tactics often Wout would be saying “ Well I could win today If I go for it rather than be the team player”
Did I imagine this or was that the case.

I don't think 'often' is fair, but it certainly happens at least once (and is implied to happen at others but... editing).

I do wonder if seeing it on screen - in its full, rewindable glory - has made that moment more potentially corrosive than it would otherwise have been? Normally there's a slight element of doubt ('did he really say that then?') to help smooth things back over.

webboo

Looking who gets paid what and I know things are not always up to date but as far as I can see Wout is on more money than Vindguard.
I wonder how much weight this carries in team discussions.

blazing_saddles

daniel_b said:

r0bh said:

Pog taking the mick out of WvA's reaction

Missed that, something he did as he crossed the line?

Here you go:

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling/video-tadej-pogacar-mocks-wout-van-aerts-frustration-following-stage-2-of-the-tour-de-france

Pross

RichN95. said:

rick_chasey said:

tailwindhome said:

RichN95. said:

Pross said:

It’s always going to be an issue if you’re there chasing stages for a rider other than your GC leader. It worked OK for Sky in 2012 but that was a rarity.

The 'Wiggins lead out Cavendish' narrative is a bit of revisionist history. In reality Cavendish spent most of the race frustrated as Sky wouldn't help him. Wiggins did a lead out on stage 19 with only a TT left, a two minute advantage and a teammate in 2nd place.

Interesting Cavendish now regularly says that two was the highlight of his career. I don't think he thought that at the time.

My memory is always poor. I seem to recall a banker stage into Pau that they completely ignored.

100% and Cav was right to be livid. Why bring him.

Because people have been referencing him being lead out by Wiggins in 2012 when talking about Vingegaard.

Did they? Who was that? I made a comment that having riders in the same team going for GC and stages rarely works with 2012 being a rare exception. I didn’t mention lead outs by anyone let alone Wiggins (or even that they gave him much support).

That said there were 9 stages classed as flat, the first of those had an uphill finish, he crashed on one and got held up by a late crash in another but won 3 of the other 6 (2 of which Wiggins did lead him out on). On another of those 6 Cav got dropped on a late climb but Wiggins led out EBH instead who took third. The only stage where you could argue Sky missed a chance was the one into Pau where a classic transition day break was allowed to stay away but they made amends with the next opportunity on Stage 18 when no-one expected them to chase down the break.

rick_chasey

mrb123 said:

Excellent first two days anyway.

Really was

rick_chasey

https://twitter.com/ryanduff99/status/1675571967464730625?s=46&t=Q7O5dnx-0MXQv9qE3vz1vg

kingstongraham

rick_chasey said:

RichN95. said:

It should also be noted that Tiesj Benoot was still in the front group. Maybe he could have done a turn

He did tbf.

He did a turn, then worked his way back to the front and did another shift.

RichN95.

kingstongraham said:

rick_chasey said:

RichN95. said:

It should also be noted that Tiesj Benoot was still in the front group. Maybe he could have done a turn

He did tbf.

He did a turn, then worked his way back to the front and did another shift.

But nothing after Lafay attacked. Apparently he said post race that he didn't know he'd attacked.

Ultimately, Jumbo haven't just cobbled everything together at the last minute. Van Aert will be aware what the team are willing to do for him and none of it involves Vingegaard. And Vingegaard will have been told to just think about himself regardless. And Van Aert will be allowed to leave the race if his wife goes into labour.

Boundaries are set. Everyone knows what is expected of them. And I'm sure both of them are fine with it. All the supposed polemica is invented by people on the outside. As is the idea that Van Aert will have sulk and not ride for Vingegaard if he doesn't get a stage win.

mididoctors

RichN95. said:

kingstongraham said:

rick_chasey said:

RichN95. said:

It should also be noted that Tiesj Benoot was still in the front group. Maybe he could have done a turn

He did tbf.

He did a turn, then worked his way back to the front and did another shift.

But nothing after Lafay attacked. Apparently he said post race that he didn't know he'd attacked.

Ultimately, Jumbo haven't just cobbled everything together at the last minute. Van Aert will be aware what the team are willing to do for him and none of it involves Vingegaard. And Vingegaard will have been told to just think about himself regardless. And Van Aert will be allowed to leave the race if his wife goes into labour.

Boundaries are set. Everyone knows what is expected of them. And I'm sure both of them are fine with it. All the supposed polemica is invented by people on the outside. As is the idea that Van Aert will have sulk and not ride for Vingegaard if he doesn't get a stage win.

Good talking point though

blazing_saddles

mididoctors said:

RichN95. said:

kingstongraham said:

rick_chasey said:

RichN95. said:

It should also be noted that Tiesj Benoot was still in the front group. Maybe he could have done a turn

He did tbf.

He did a turn, then worked his way back to the front and did another shift.

But nothing after Lafay attacked. Apparently he said post race that he didn't know he'd attacked.

Ultimately, Jumbo haven't just cobbled everything together at the last minute. Van Aert will be aware what the team are willing to do for him and none of it involves Vingegaard. And Vingegaard will have been told to just think about himself regardless. And Van Aert will be allowed to leave the race if his wife goes into labour.

Boundaries are set. Everyone knows what is expected of them. And I'm sure both of them are fine with it. All the supposed polemica is invented by people on the outside. As is the idea that Van Aert will have sulk and not ride for Vingegaard if he doesn't get a stage win.

Good talking point though

Quite.
It's not an invention, just a bit of speculation, given that cycling has a history of riders falling out on the road.
One thing we can all be sure about is that no one should claim to know what we can be sure about.

drhaggis

I happened to be yesterday under the Flamme Rouge, where Lafay supposedly attacked. I say supposedly because, with the amount of people there, even when halfay up in a lamppost, I could only see the opposite half of the road, with the last Jumbo riders and then Vingegaard behing Pogacar.

And BTW, don't really like WvA's red bull helmet, but it does make it a lot easier to spot him in the split second you see them buzz by.

PS: I disagree with Blazing Saddle's suggestion that yesterday's climb up Jaizkibel was the easier one. Both sides are pretty much the same length, and both climb from sea level. The only difference is that the slight descent is twice longer when coming from the East (as in Stage 3), that the km at roughly 10% is either the first one (W->E) or after the Guadalupe break (E->W), and that, with the prevailing wind being NW, you're more likely to have some headwind in St3.

davidof

Dorset_Boy said:

tailwindhome said:

mididoctors said:

tailwindhome said:

Why do the Basque fans wear Orange?

Euskadi team orange from wayyyyy back?

Was there a particular reason they wore orange?

Any connection to William of...?

William of O was a proddie, not sure that protestants made it as far south as Spain.

Navarre was a protestant kingdom.

kingstongraham

https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1675734697341513728