Giro 2023: Stage 20: Tarvisio – Monte Lussari 18.6 km ITT Half Flat, Half Cliff ***Spoilers***

blazing_saddles
blazing_saddles Posts: 21,921
Stage 20: Tarvisio – Monte Lussari 18.6 km ITT

Start Time: 10-30amBST. Finish Time: 5-30pmBST.



Having not yet seen it, but listening to reports and how the trial has been organised, I am not sure there is a place for such a ludicrous time trial in a Grand Tour.
The race will be divided into 3 heats starting at 11:30. The interval between the heats will be 50 minutes after the last rider has reached the finish line. Consequently the time trial will take 7 hours to complete.

Anyhow, it's included, so what to say? The route between Tarvisio and the top of Monte Lussari is 18.6 kilometres long. The first part is gently rolling, the second climbs almost 1000 vertical metres, over 7.3 kilometres at an average of 12.3%, to the line. It includes a 5 km section at 15% average.





The Climb.

The climb snakes through the woods on narrow concrete-surfaced roads with many switchbacks. The first 5 kilometres go up at 15% on average. Once out of the forest, the gradient falls to 3.9%, only to ramp back up again after crossing a bridge.



Final Kms.

In the last 1.5 kilometres the gradient jumps to 22%, then back to 8%, while the gradient reaches 16% in the final 150 metres.



What to Expect.

Pain. With the winner being one of the riders contesting the overall, probably the rider who was the strongest on stage 19.

Tarvisio

Tarvisio is a comune (municipality) in the northeastern part of the autonomous Friuli Venezia Giulia region in Italy. The town is in the Canal Valley (Val Canale) between the Carnic Alps and Karawanks ranges in the north and the Julian Alps in the south. Located at the border with both Austria and Slovenia, Tarvisio and its neighbouring municipalities of Arnoldstein and Kranjska Gora form the tripoint of Romance, Germanic and Slavic Europe.
Tarvisio's roots date back to Roman times. Tarvisio remained a southern exclave of the Prince-Bishopric of Bamberg, until in 1758 the bishop finally sold Tarvisio to the Habsburg Empress Maria Theresa of Austria. Until 1918 it was part of the Duchy of Carinthia, it received town privileges in 1909.



Food



There are many dishes that have extra-territorial significance, finding representation in the culinary traditions of Carinthia, Slovenia and Friuli. Goulash, frico, game ragout, barley dishes, minced lard, cured meats and cheeses that encapsulate the scents of the meadows and pastures of our mountains.



And also strudel, plum-filled dumplings, Christmas cookies, reindling (in Austrian dialect) or schartl (in Slovenian dialect) and tarts with small fruits (raspberries, blueberries and blackberries).




The local products of the Tarvisio area have intense flavors and genuine ingredients, among them are dairy products, mostly made from cow’s milk, eggs from free-range hens, organic dog, organic productions of fruit and vegetables, honey, preserves and jams, sausages and salami. Among all of them, the most renowned product is definitely Montasio, a large, cooked, semi-hard cow’s milk cheese, named after the mountainous massif in our wonderful Julian Alps.



Monte Lussari

A peak overlooking the land where the Carnic and Julian Alps come together, from a position of privilege that positions it as the guardian of these borderlands and the meeting place of Latin, Slavic, and Germanic peoples: Mount Lussari is much more than a peak that touches 1800 m, it is an exceptional terrace over the giants of the Julian Alps.
It is a renowned pilgrimage destination due to the presence of a sanctuary, which can be reached through the suggestive Sentiero del Pellegrino, a hiking path that from the valley floor climbs the slopes of the mountain along the millenary forest of Tarvisio.


Food.

Lussari is also the highest village in Friuli Venezia Giulia, and in its narrow streets, the traditional cuisine can be discovered in the dishes served in its many welcoming inns.

Frico

Frico is a traditional dish from the historical Italian region of Carnia, made with a local delicacy known as Montasio cheese. There are two versions: the frico friabile, a crunchy snack made with cheese fried in olive oil until crunchy, and the more famous frico morbido, the soft one, combining the cheese with potatoes and onions in a succulent, rich pancake, baked or fried until it turns golden and crispy on both sides.











"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
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Comments

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,117
    Bike change?
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,171

    Bike change?

    Almost certainly.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,117
    I do hate the bike change.

  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087

    I do hate the bike change.

    They need to change the rules so the rider is not allowed to put their feet on the floor during the change.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,117
    webboo said:

    I do hate the bike change.

    They need to change the rules so the rider is not allowed to put their feet on the floor during the change.
    They could just say that in a TT the replacement needs to be set up the same with the same kit.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,406
    I will re-up my previous comment that putting a TT on the only day I can watch is incredibly bad form. Worse than pineapple on pizza by a long stretch...

    That said I have no idea how tomorrow will go. Unfortunately, a boring race is all we can hope for because anything else risks turning into a freak show...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,187
    webboo said:

    I do hate the bike change.

    They need to change the rules so the rider is not allowed to put their feet on the floor during the change.
    We'd have a couple of soigneurs lifting the rider while another couple swap the bike beneath him. Like a clown version of an F1 pit stop
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,018



    The local products of the Tarvisio area have intense flavors and genuine ingredients, among them are dairy products, mostly made from cow’s milk, eggs from free-range hens, organic dog, organic productions of fruit and vegetables, honey, preserves and jams, sausages and salami.


    Are you checking that we’re still reading your excellent posts?
  • jimmyjams
    jimmyjams Posts: 744

    The race will be divided into 3 heats starting at 11:30. The interval between the heats will be 50 minutes after the last rider has reached the finish line. .

    Has a reason been stated for these 'heats' and the 50 min gap between each? For example, so much tree debris constantly falls on to the road, that it will need interim cleaning?


    The climb snakes through the woods on narrow concrete-surfaced roads with many switchbacks.

    The concrete surface isn't totally smooth – when the former gravel/earth road was paved, as the road was too narrow and steep for an asphalt--placing machine or concrete-delivery vehicle, the concrete was mixed on site and placed between screeds by labourers using shovels, then levelled using a long wooden straight edge. At the switchbacks, grooves were made in the concrete before it set, to provide a degree of skid resistance (one could see the grooves in the short film on Eurosport of Contador doing the climb).

    I don't know if some tyres (or pressures) are better for concrete, others for asphalt, in the same way one might select different tyres/pressures for strada bianche or Paris-Roubaix, but as a cyclist and moreso as a runner, I feel one definitely notices a difference between the two surfaces.
  • chris_ne
    chris_ne Posts: 17
    I read somewhere that because they can't allow cars on the climb motorbikes are to be used instead with a spare bike etc carried on the motorbike. They don't have enough bikes so have to stop the race to allow motorbikes to return to the start.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,187
    jimmyjams said:

    The race will be divided into 3 heats starting at 11:30. The interval between the heats will be 50 minutes after the last rider has reached the finish line. .

    Has a reason been stated for these 'heats' and the 50 min gap between each? For example, so much tree debris constantly falls on to the road, that it will need interim cleaning?

    The logistics of the support vehicles I would have thought. The team mechanics are going to have to go up on the back of motorbikes.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,033
    Feels like a very gimmicky stage all round. There must be plenty of challenging mountains they could have used in that area to create a serious uphill TT without all the logistical issues this one creates.
  • jimmyjams
    jimmyjams Posts: 744
    chris_ne said:

    I read somewhere that because they can't allow cars on the climb motorbikes are to be used instead with a spare bike etc carried on the motorbike. They don't have enough bikes so have to stop the race to allow motorbikes to return to the start.

    Thanks for that explanation, very plausible-
  • jimmyjams
    jimmyjams Posts: 744
    andyp said:

    Bike change?

    Almost certainly.
    There is a specific 25 m-long area designated where bike changes have to take place, including any 'pushing-off' by the soigneur. I think only one soigneur can be involved in the exchange.

    I understand riders can only be accompanied by motorbikes, not cars (confirmed by Chris_ne above). This because the flat stretch is only a narrow bike path, previously a railway track, and the climb is only a service road to the builldings at the top.
    So that will inevitably therefore mean only one soigneur - motorbiker plus pillion/soigneur, the latter with the exchange bike.
    Not sure, though, what will happen if a rider also has a mechanical. Maybe in case of a puncture, the soigneur will also carry spare wheels?

    I imagine Roglic will change to the bike he used in the later part of today, and I doubt many of the riders will put in a great effort – just the first 10-11 in the GC.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,033
    I thought the area was longer than 25m? Sure I heard on GCN it was more because they were discussing how it might make choosing the optimum location a challenge (too close to the climb could be harder to get up to speed, too soon and less time on the faster TT bike section). I wasn’t fully concentrating though so may have misheard.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,921
    Here's the full communique from the RCS with regard to tomorrow's ITT.

    The Commissaires Panel acknowledges and confirms the extension of article 16 of the special race regulations, which prohibits the use of any time trial bicycle from the exit of the duly identified and delimited change area.

    1) Changing from the ITT bicycle to the road bicycle can only be made at the latest before the end of the bike change area designated and delimited by the Organisation.
    2) All the road bicycles, including the spare bicycles, will be checked in the bike change area. Bicycles must be made available for checks in the 15 minutes prior to the passage of the rider concerned.
    3) Only two people per team, duly and specifically authorised and accredited, will be allowed in the bike change area designated and delimited by the rganisation.
    4) The part of the bicycle change area where riders can be pushed will be delimited and will be 25 metres long.
    5) Bike checks will be performed at the start, as usual. Pre-checks will take place from 9:00 to 11:00 following a schedule that will be disclosed the day before the ITT.
    6) Any bike change made before the bike change area must be made using only the equipment taken from the car following the rider.
    7) The motorcycle with the mechanic on board may not carry any mechanical assistance equipment (bike and/or wheels) in the section between the start and the change area.
    8) The person driving the car in the section between the start and the change area may not in any case get onboard the motorbike starting from the change area.

    As a supplement to the special race regulations, the Direction of the Giro d'Italia communicates the last organisational and technical details.

    The neutral motorbikes made available by the organisation and the official cars of the teams that wish to follow their riders will depart from the start located in Piazza Unità (Tarvisio), only team cars branded with the team's main logos are allowed. No neutral cars will be provided.

    Team cars will be diverted at the beginning of the bike change area (Valsaisera Park) to allow the staff to dismount, and will go back towards the start after making a U-turn inside the team parking area.

    The neutral motorbikes provided will be ready a few minutes before the start of the rider and will be equipped with radio equipment to receive race news from RadioTour. The organisation also provides a helmet, which must be returned to the driver at the finish.

    At the end of the stage, the athletes and the teams staff must use the cable car to go back to the teams parking. The cable car will always be available and can be used by the teams with priority over the public, in both directions.

    Route recon may be performed starting from 9:00 with just one car per team (no mini-vans). Continuing from the bike change area will only be allowed until 9:45.

    All cars must leave the finish area before 10:30, and go back immediately to the start in Tarvisio.

    The bike change area is 25 metres longs and will be delimited by lines drawn on the ground, as well as by start and finish panels. As a supplement to the special race regulations, we point out that after the end of the bike change area, the riders may only and exclusively continue with road bicycles, not with time-trial bikes.

    The race will be divided into 3 heats starting at 11:30. The interval between the heats will be 50 minutes after the last rider has reached the finish line.

    At the teams’ request, and in agreement with the race Direction, some riders, in addition to the last 15 starters, the jersey holders and their direct contenders, may be followed by 2 neutral motorcycles to accommodate 2 team members.

    The equipment can be taken to the Valsaisera teams parking in the following time slots: first heat: 10:30-11:00, second heat: 12:30-13:00 and third heat: 15:00-15:30, following the race route
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,000
    So a compulsory bike change - has that happened before?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,187
    Pross said:

    I thought the area was longer than 25m? Sure I heard on GCN it was more because they were discussing how it might make choosing the optimum location a challenge (too close to the climb could be harder to get up to speed, too soon and less time on the faster TT bike section). I wasn’t fully concentrating though so may have misheard.


    I heard the same. That it was 500m. They must be wrong. A 25m area makes more sense though.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,171
    Does it? What happens if four riders arrive at the same time?
  • stage_hunter
    stage_hunter Posts: 238
    jimmyjams said:

    andyp said:

    Bike change?

    Almost certainly.
    There is a specific 25 m-long area designated where bike changes have to take place, including any 'pushing-off' by the soigneur. I think only one soigneur can be involved in the exchange.

    I understand riders can only be accompanied by motorbikes, not cars (confirmed by Chris_ne above). This because the flat stretch is only a narrow bike path, previously a railway track, and the climb is only a service road to the builldings at the top.
    So that will inevitably therefore mean only one soigneur - motorbiker plus pillion/soigneur, the latter with the exchange bike.
    Not sure, though, what will happen if a rider also has a mechanical. Maybe in case of a puncture, the soigneur will also carry spare wheels?

    I imagine Roglic will change to the bike he used in the later part of today, and I doubt many of the riders will put in a great effort – just the first 10-11 in the GC.
    There is a DS bike behind too.

    It’s all a bit daft by the sound of it. It wouldnt surprise me if they realise in the morning it’s not feasible and we get a flat TT- out and back maybe.

    All those motorbikes climbing 22% gradients. What can go wrong?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,117
    Might add some excitement
  • stage_hunter
    stage_hunter Posts: 238

    So a compulsory bike change - has that happened before?

    Where does it say that? There must a question of some riders just starting with a road bike. It’s 11 km flat? Change is what 25 seconds? Is there that much advantage compared to reduced risk
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,187

    So a compulsory bike change - has that happened before?

    Where does it say that? There must a question of some riders just starting with a road bike. It’s 11 km flat? Change is what 25 seconds? Is there that much advantage compared to reduced risk

    A lot less than 25 seconds surely. In cross they barely lose any speed at all.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • gethinceri
    gethinceri Posts: 1,535
    RichN95. said:

    So a compulsory bike change - has that happened before?

    Where does it say that? There must a question of some riders just starting with a road bike. It’s 11 km flat? Change is what 25 seconds? Is there that much advantage compared to reduced risk

    A lot less than 25 seconds surely. In cross they barely lose any speed at all.
    Different shoes.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,117
    It is tight enough a mechanical will do for anyone's chances, but that aside, I think Thomas has the legs, the lead and the experience to finish this off.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,033
    Shame Pidcock or WVA aren’t there.

    If a stage needs that much additional wording in the rule book you have to question whether it should be included.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,759
    They did say 500m on Eurosport and even discussed the tactics of leaving it late or not - so they must be wrong unless there are multiple 25m zones within 500m ?
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • stage_hunter
    stage_hunter Posts: 238

    They did say 500m on Eurosport and even discussed the tactics of leaving it late or not - so they must be wrong unless there are multiple 25m zones within 500m ?

    Those RCS rules may have been issued tonight.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,965
    Would it not have been more straightforward to disallow TT bikes?

    Road bikes only
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,033
    Would have been the most logical solution and made it more interesting potentially