Weight, health & body image

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  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211

    OMG guys.

    OK. Listen here. If you do a tonne of exercise you will lose weight.

    However, study after study after study finds *prescribing excercise does not help people lose weight*

    That's why the chief nutritionist at Public Health England and cardiologist adviser to the National Obesity Forum say that, if you want to lose weight, exercise is not the answer, nor is it even the most important factor.

    Diet is. End of.

    Yep.

    You don't see too many fat builders. There occupation is exercise, that isn't reflective of the majority of society though. Desk and keyboard life style.

    When I go out walking or cycling. I don't see the capacity of people who occupy the houses I see out on the roads exercising. I reckon about 1-5%.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,125

    I like how you have professionals who look at this for a living saying it's diet, not exercise, and you lot are going "naaaaah"

    Gove was right. You have had enough of experts.

    I like how you are ignoring what the actual reports are saying (extract of one above) and are just using the over-simplfed quotes from articles in newspapers.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    Walking is around 100 kcal and hour.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,125

    OMG guys.

    OK. Listen here. If you do a tonne of exercise you will lose weight.

    However, study after study after study finds *prescribing excercise does not help people lose weight*

    That's why the chief nutritionist at Public Health England and cardiologist adviser to the National Obesity Forum say that, if you want to lose weight, exercise is not the answer, nor is it even the most important factor.

    Diet is. End of.

    Yep.

    You don't see too many fat builders. There occupation is exercise, that isn't reflective of the majority of society though. Desk and keyboard life style.

    When I go out walking or cycling. I don't see the capacity of people who occupy the houses I see out on the roads exercising. I reckon about 1-5%.
    I assume that's sarcasm?
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    A standard Mars bar is 230kcal. A couple of hours hours walking to burn that piece of yumpshusnus off.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,203
    edited April 2023
    Pross said:

    I like how you have professionals who look at this for a living saying it's diet, not exercise, and you lot are going "naaaaah"

    Gove was right. You have had enough of experts.

    I like how you are ignoring what the actual reports are saying (extract of one above) and are just using the over-simplfed quotes from articles in newspapers.
    Dr Asseem Malhotra, cardiologist adviser to the National Obesity Forum, went further: “We know exercising in the right way has many health benefits but weight loss isn’t one of them,” he said. “We need to disassociate obesity with exercise altogether. If we’re going to combat obesity, it’s going to happen purely from changing the food environment.”


    I think you are struggling to separate the science and the public policy.

    They are not the same. You can crow till the cows come home that if you ride 13hrs a day you'll probably lose weight, but *that is not how you will improve the obesity epidemic*.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,203
    edited April 2023
    I feel like 95% of my disagreements on here are me reading and sharing an expert on something that says something counter-intuitive, and then you lot go "naah, my intuition says this is wrong"
  • pblakeney said:

    lol 800 calories an hour? What are you, riding with a sail or at 50kph?!

    According to Garmin and Strava that is what they report. They will base that on weight and heart rate so my figures will be higher than a lightweight. I also need more Watts.
    I wouldn't solely rely on HR as a measurement of accurate calories burned.

  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    Pross said:

    OMG guys.

    OK. Listen here. If you do a tonne of exercise you will lose weight.

    However, study after study after study finds *prescribing excercise does not help people lose weight*

    That's why the chief nutritionist at Public Health England and cardiologist adviser to the National Obesity Forum say that, if you want to lose weight, exercise is not the answer, nor is it even the most important factor.

    Diet is. End of.

    Yep.

    You don't see too many fat builders. There occupation is exercise, that isn't reflective of the majority of society though. Desk and keyboard life style.

    When I go out walking or cycling. I don't see the capacity of people who occupy the houses I see out on the roads exercising. I reckon about 1-5%.
    I assume that's sarcasm?
    OK, you don't see too many skinny fat builders about do you?
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,125
    The thing the study I quoted above does say is that the body's BMR lowers once you exercise over a certain level so if you burn 800 calories an hour cycling it doesn't necessarily mean that you will have a deficit of 2400 for the day after a 3 hour ride as your body adapts its base requirement and you may (for example) only have a 1000 calorie deficit.

    This may explain why I don't tend to lose much / any weight when I hit the big weeks in a marathon training schedule as I tend to tell myself that I can eat back all the calories consumed on a 20 mile training run (around 2000) whereas in reality my body has adjust and I only have 1000 spare.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,038

    pblakeney said:

    lol 800 calories an hour? What are you, riding with a sail or at 50kph?!

    According to Garmin and Strava that is what they report. They will base that on weight and heart rate so my figures will be higher than a lightweight. I also need more Watts.
    I wouldn't solely rely on HR as a measurement of accurate calories burned.

    I presume you didn't read my post prior to that one?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,038

    I like how you have professionals who look at this for a living saying it's diet, not exercise, and you lot are going "naaaaah"

    Gove was right. You have had enough of experts.

    If the studies do not reflect my experience then they are not all inclusive.
    I doubt any study can be applied to 100% of the population.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,125

    Pross said:

    I like how you have professionals who look at this for a living saying it's diet, not exercise, and you lot are going "naaaaah"

    Gove was right. You have had enough of experts.

    I like how you are ignoring what the actual reports are saying (extract of one above) and are just using the over-simplfed quotes from articles in newspapers.
    Dr Asseem Malhotra, cardiologist adviser to the National Obesity Forum, went further: “We know exercising in the right way has many health benefits but weight loss isn’t one of them,” he said. “We need to disassociate obesity with exercise altogether. If we’re going to combat obesity, it’s going to happen purely from changing the food environment.”


    I think you are struggling to separate the science and the public policy.

    They are not the same. You can crow till the cows come home that if you ride 13hrs a day you'll probably lose weight, but *that is not how you will improve the obesity epidemic*.
    You didn't read the extract I put up earlier and my summary did you? I don't think anyone is saying exercise alone will solve obesity but your asertion that exercise cannot assist weight loss isn't backed up by the actual study data in the report at least one of your articles links to.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,125

    I feel like 95% of my disagreements on here are me reading and sharing an expert on something that says something counter-intuitive, and then you lot go "naah, my intuition says this is wrong"

    I feel it is more that you read the headline and quote it without actually reading the detail.
  • I probably average around 150-200 miles a week and would love to be able to say that I can get away with eating what I like but the simple fact is, my body has adapted and become way more efficient than it was when I first started out. It's a tricky balance between fuelling for your efforts, and not going overboard & thinking you 'deserve' treats after big/hard ride. You should be eating more before your ride, not necessarily after. Otherwise, you just feel like crap on the bike because you haven't fuelled properly.



  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    edited April 2023

    I feel like 95% of my disagreements on here are me reading and sharing an expert on something that says something counter-intuitive, and then you lot go "naah, my intuition says this is wrong"

    That's easily explained. Anybody who is left here likes and argument.

    And generally nobody is wrong it's just we have different perspectives. Experts disagree with experts.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,203
    pblakeney said:

    I like how you have professionals who look at this for a living saying it's diet, not exercise, and you lot are going "naaaaah"

    Gove was right. You have had enough of experts.

    If the studies do not reflect my experience then they are not all inclusive.
    I doubt any study can be applied to 100% of the population.
    lol I think you're agreeing with me here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,203
    Pross said:

    I feel like 95% of my disagreements on here are me reading and sharing an expert on something that says something counter-intuitive, and then you lot go "naah, my intuition says this is wrong"

    I feel it is more that you read the headline and quote it without actually reading the detail.
    I think you are looking at the trees and missing the wood :)
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    edited April 2023
    Step right up! It's the miracle cure we've all been waiting for.

    It can reduce your risk of major illnesses, such as coronary heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes and cancer and lower your risk of early death by up to 30%.

    It's free, easy to take, has an immediate effect and you don't need a GP to get some. Its name? Exercise.


    This is no snake oil. Whatever your age, there's strong scientific evidence that being physically active can help you lead a healthier and happier life.

    People who exercise regularly have a lower risk of developing many long-term (chronic) conditions, such as heart disease, type 2 diabetes, stroke, and some cancers.
    https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/exercise-health-benefits/
  • pblakeney said:

    I thought it was pretty much established exercise basically doesn't really lose you weight and it's really all about diet.

    Quote as many reports as you like but I lost 3 stone by becoming a born again cyclist without changing my diet. I became a born again cyclist due to noticing I was becoming obese.
    Sure, I don't doubt that at the extreme ends exercise obviously does, but I think a) cycling is fairly unusual in that you can spend a lot of calories for a long time and b) you do really need to be quite fit to put out enough power to get through the calories enough to be material to your weight.
    For a lot of my life I raced canoe slalom. A normal training session would consist of a 5 minute warm up followed by 4 sets of 5 repetitions of a 20 - 30 second course. A total of 15 minutes exercise in a little over an hour, which I would do 2 or 3 times a week. A weekend's racing consisted of a few 6 x 2 minute runs down the course plus warm ups. Other than that I commuted 4 miles to work about half the time by bike. I never had to watch my weight. Either I am exceptional or there was something about the relatively small time I spent exercising that stopped me from getting fat, Basically I don't buy into the idea that doing exercise doesn't control weight.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211

    I probably average around 150-200 miles a week and would love to be able to say that I can get away with eating what I like but the simple fact is, my body has adapted and become way more efficient than it was when I first started out. It's a tricky balance between fuelling for your efforts, and not going overboard & thinking you 'deserve' treats after big/hard ride. You should be eating more before your ride, not necessarily after. Otherwise, you just feel like censored on the bike because you haven't fuelled properly.



    That's a good point.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,203
    edited April 2023

    pblakeney said:

    I thought it was pretty much established exercise basically doesn't really lose you weight and it's really all about diet.

    Quote as many reports as you like but I lost 3 stone by becoming a born again cyclist without changing my diet. I became a born again cyclist due to noticing I was becoming obese.
    Sure, I don't doubt that at the extreme ends exercise obviously does, but I think a) cycling is fairly unusual in that you can spend a lot of calories for a long time and b) you do really need to be quite fit to put out enough power to get through the calories enough to be material to your weight.
    For a lot of my life I raced canoe slalom. A normal training session would consist of a 5 minute warm up followed by 4 sets of 5 repetitions of a 20 - 30 second course. A total of 15 minutes exercise in a little over an hour, which I would do 2 or 3 times a week. A weekend's racing consisted of a few 6 x 2 minute runs down the course plus warm ups. Other than that I commuted 4 miles to work about half the time by bike. I never had to watch my weight. Either I am exceptional or there was something about the relatively small time I spent exercising that stopped me from getting fat, Basically I don't buy into the idea that doing exercise doesn't control weight.
    Right. So we'll park this as "expert says something counter-intuitive" and "my intuition says otherwise; i'll ignore"

  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211

    pblakeney said:

    I thought it was pretty much established exercise basically doesn't really lose you weight and it's really all about diet.

    Quote as many reports as you like but I lost 3 stone by becoming a born again cyclist without changing my diet. I became a born again cyclist due to noticing I was becoming obese.
    Sure, I don't doubt that at the extreme ends exercise obviously does, but I think a) cycling is fairly unusual in that you can spend a lot of calories for a long time and b) you do really need to be quite fit to put out enough power to get through the calories enough to be material to your weight.
    For a lot of my life I raced canoe slalom. A normal training session would consist of a 5 minute warm up followed by 4 sets of 5 repetitions of a 20 - 30 second course. A total of 15 minutes exercise in a little over an hour, which I would do 2 or 3 times a week. A weekend's racing consisted of a few 6 x 2 minute runs down the course plus warm ups. Other than that I commuted 4 miles to work about half the time by bike. I never had to watch my weight. Either I am exceptional or there was something about the relatively small time I spent exercising that stopped me from getting fat, Basically I don't buy into the idea that doing exercise doesn't control weight.
    The point is you aren't the norm and HIT exercises burn a lot of calories.
  • pblakeney said:

    I thought it was pretty much established exercise basically doesn't really lose you weight and it's really all about diet.

    Quote as many reports as you like but I lost 3 stone by becoming a born again cyclist without changing my diet. I became a born again cyclist due to noticing I was becoming obese.
    Sure, I don't doubt that at the extreme ends exercise obviously does, but I think a) cycling is fairly unusual in that you can spend a lot of calories for a long time and b) you do really need to be quite fit to put out enough power to get through the calories enough to be material to your weight.
    For a lot of my life I raced canoe slalom. A normal training session would consist of a 5 minute warm up followed by 4 sets of 5 repetitions of a 20 - 30 second course. A total of 15 minutes exercise in a little over an hour, which I would do 2 or 3 times a week. A weekend's racing consisted of a few 6 x 2 minute runs down the course plus warm ups. Other than that I commuted 4 miles to work about half the time by bike. I never had to watch my weight. Either I am exceptional or there was something about the relatively small time I spent exercising that stopped me from getting fat, Basically I don't buy into the idea that doing exercise doesn't control weight.
    Not disagreeing with your point but I think another thing to take into consideration is age and each individual's metabolism. I'm in my late 30's and I have probably been the same weight (give or take a few lbs) for the last 3 years and have been pretty consistent with my mileage/intensity.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,928

    OMG guys.

    OK. Listen here. If you do a tonne of exercise you will lose weight.

    However, study after study after study finds *prescribing excercise does not help people lose weight*

    That's why the chief nutritionist at Public Health England and cardiologist adviser to the National Obesity Forum say that, if you want to lose weight, exercise is not the answer, nor is it even the most important factor.

    Diet is. End of.

    Yep.

    You don't see too many fat builders. There occupation is exercise, that isn't reflective of the majority of society though. Desk and keyboard life style.

    When I go out walking or cycling. I don't see the capacity of people who occupy the houses I see out on the roads exercising. I reckon about 1-5%.
    I don't think you look at many builders if you think that is true.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211

    Pross said:

    OMG guys.

    OK. Listen here. If you do a tonne of exercise you will lose weight.

    However, study after study after study finds *prescribing excercise does not help people lose weight*

    That's why the chief nutritionist at Public Health England and cardiologist adviser to the National Obesity Forum say that, if you want to lose weight, exercise is not the answer, nor is it even the most important factor.

    Diet is. End of.

    Yep.

    You don't see too many fat builders. There occupation is exercise, that isn't reflective of the majority of society though. Desk and keyboard life style.

    When I go out walking or cycling. I don't see the capacity of people who occupy the houses I see out on the roads exercising. I reckon about 1-5%.
    I assume that's sarcasm?
    OK, you don't see too many skinny fat builders about do you?
  • Tashman
    Tashman Posts: 3,407
    The whole reality is that diet will have the greatest effect on the general population. Saying exercise will help is true, but the reality is that the general population, especially those that are in the most need of weight reduction won't do anything at the intensity level that will have a significant effect.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    Lets face it, food is on tap. We used to have to hunt or grow it. Some people don't even bother to go out and get it, it get's delivered to their door.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    Hmmmm...
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    Christ, those biscuits were nice...