Weight, health & body image

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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,202
    rjsterry said:

    And more complicated by far are the reasons why people are eating poorly and not getting enough exercise.

    Right.

    I would say, now i'm in my mid 30s I'm still a good healthy weight, but holy moly I do basically have to spend half of my day being hungry, especially in the office when my meals get much more spread out.

    It's a constant battle, I'm just quite stubborn.
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,004
    Meh, I think the whole "it's a lot more complex than calories in v out" often is done in the name of introducing a layer of mysticism/bullcrap/helplessness.

    I think a better way of putting it is that there's "more to it", but that it's mostly set around in v out.

    I'm also not sure that there is a consistent, good way of getting back to a healthy weight, aside from a very strict lifestyle change, much like what would be needed in the car thread!
  • I know it’s a cycling forum but the exercise your way out advice has been found to not affect collective weight.

    You need to eat less and healthier.

    Tbh, I prefer to exercise a lot, not really worry about what I eat, and consume circa 50% more calories than the idle guy down the pub with a beer belly, whilst maintaining my weight at circa 77kg at 6'1". (I like mixing units too!)
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,202
    edited April 2023

    I know it’s a cycling forum but the exercise your way out advice has been found to not affect collective weight.

    You need to eat less and healthier.

    Tbh, I prefer to exercise a lot, not really worry about what I eat, and consume circa 50% more calories than the idle guy down the pub with a beer belly, whilst maintaining my weight at circa 77kg at 6'1". (I like mixing units too!)
    I doubt if you stopped cycling tomorrow you'd be that much heavier after a year.

    FWIW I have stopped all exercise since the middle of Feb, have eaten the same (save for 3 weeks sh!ts) and until then my weight was the same until i then lost weight as I started eating less to deal with the sh!ts.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,202
    I can go further. When I lived in NYC which was for about a year I dropped all 'exercise' save for walking around and I lost weight as I ended up skipping meals because I was so busy.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,038
    edited April 2023
    Bzzt. I put on 5 kgs when I had a leg in a cast for 3 months.
    Walking is exercise.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,928
    Jezyboy said:

    Meh, I think the whole "it's a lot more complex than calories in v out" often is done in the name of introducing a layer of mysticism/bullcrap/helplessness.

    I think a better way of putting it is that there's "more to it", but that it's not the same thing rather not sure what to expect from the previous owners mostly to the UK is irrelevant and I will try and the other one of your key pledges about a third party mostly with a small scale and is mostly set around in v out.

    I'm also not sure that there is a cons aistent, good way of getting back to a healthy weight, aside from a very strict lifestyle change, much like what would be needed in the car thread!

    That's just why people are overweight, not why they overeat or why they don't get enough exercise.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,124

    I know it’s a cycling forum but the exercise your way out advice has been found to not affect collective weight.

    You need to eat less and healthier.

    Tbh, I prefer to exercise a lot, not really worry about what I eat, and consume circa 50% more calories than the idle guy down the pub with a beer belly, whilst maintaining my weight at circa 77kg at 6'1". (I like mixing units too!)
    I doubt if you stopped cycling tomorrow you'd be that much heavier after a year.

    FWIW I have stopped all exercise since the middle of Feb, have eaten the same (save for 3 weeks sh!ts) and until then my weight was the same until i then lost weight as I started eating less to deal with the sh!ts.
    I gained a stone over a year when I gave up cycling after my first child came along. I don't think I ate more but it could also have just been that at that age (mid 20s) my metabolism started to slow.

    The most effective way I've found to lose weight is to properly monitor calories using My Fitness Pal. It really does make me realise how many calories I'm taking in with some of my preferred food and push me towards healthier options where I can eat more. It's amazing the quantity you can eat if you stick to fruit, veg and lean meats / fish. I also find it incentivises me to exercise as in order to have that biscuit I need to do 10 minutes of running.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    How many of you put sugar in your tea or coffee?
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,124
    Nope, not since I was a kid. I don't have syrups in a coffee to hide the taste of the coffee either. I do tend to dunk far more biscuits in my drinks than I should though which is why I never quite get to my target race weight!
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    edited April 2023
    What works for me when I want to get at it is to treat sugar as a poison, it falls off then. No problem if you're very active for a spell, but generally I think that's what causes the problem and obviously type two diabetes with it. The body/organs don't get a rest from it.
    • Cake
    • Buisuits
    • Chocloate
    • Sweets
    • Cook in sources
    • Dresssings
    • ...
    There is lots of added sugar to some processed foods, you need to take note of the labels really.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    Pross said:

    Nope, not since I was a kid. I don't have syrups in a coffee to hide the taste of the coffee either. I do tend to dunk far more biscuits in my drinks than I should though which is why I never quite get to my target race weight!

    Yep, me neither and after about a week you appreciate the taste more with it. To anybody who does, give it a week and stick to it!

    loads of sugar in biscuits.
  • I know it’s a cycling forum but the exercise your way out advice has been found to not affect collective weight.

    You need to eat less and healthier.

    Tbh, I prefer to exercise a lot, not really worry about what I eat, and consume circa 50% more calories than the idle guy down the pub with a beer belly, whilst maintaining my weight at circa 77kg at 6'1". (I like mixing units too!)
    I doubt if you stopped cycling tomorrow you'd be that much heavier after a year.
    That would rely on either:
    i) Eating less; or
    ii) The laws of thermodynamics changing

    So I think I'd gain weight!

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,202
    What % of your energy intake do you think is used up by exercise? I doubt it’s bigger than 10-15%

    So that’s what, 300-400 calories a day, or 1 large glass of wine.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,202
    From one of the articles

    Dr Alison Tedstone, chief nutritionist at Public Health England said: “Being physically active is good for your physical and mental health and also helps to maintain a healthy weight. However, the evidence shows the most effective way of losing weight is to reduce calorie intake through a healthy balanced diet.”

    Dr Asseem Malhotra, cardiologist adviser to the National Obesity Forum, went further: “We know exercising in the right way has many health benefits but weight loss isn’t one of them,” he said. “We need to disassociate obesity with exercise altogether. If we’re going to combat obesity, it’s going to happen purely from changing the food environment.”

    But Dr Frankie Phillips, a dietician, and spokeswoman for the British Dietetic Association, expressed concern about the message the study might send out. “It is an interesting study and there is a possibility that if we are very, very active there may be some adaptation,” she said. “But for most people even moderate activity isn’t what they are achieving at the moment and that’s crucial. Let’s not put people off before they have even got to a stage where they are moderately active.”
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,124

    I can go further. When I lived in NYC which was for about a year I dropped all 'exercise' save for walking around and I lost weight as I ended up skipping meals because I was so busy.

    That's not really showing that stopping exercise didn't result in weight gain though, you would have to have kept eating at the same level for the impact of reduction in exercise to be measured. If you lay in bed all day, every day for a week without eating you would also lose weight but if you lay in bed all day, every day for a week whilst continuing to eat the same number of calories a day you would definitely gain weight.
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,004

    What % of your energy intake do you think is used up by exercise? I doubt it’s bigger than 10-15%

    So that’s what, 300-400 calories a day, or 1 large glass of wine.

    When I was cycling from Buxton to Manchester 2/3 times a week, and doing a big ride at the weekend...

    Quite a bit more than that!

    But that's quite a freakish amount of exercise compared to the regular population.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,038
    pblakeney said:

    I thought it was pretty much established exercise basically doesn't really lose you weight and it's really all about diet.

    Quote as many reports as you like but I lost 3 stone by becoming a born again cyclist without changing my diet. I became a born again cyclist due to noticing I was becoming obese.
    😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    pblakeney said:

    pblakeney said:

    I thought it was pretty much established exercise basically doesn't really lose you weight and it's really all about diet.

    Quote as many reports as you like but I lost 3 stone by becoming a born again cyclist without changing my diet. I became a born again cyclist due to noticing I was becoming obese.
    😉
    How may miles do you do a week out of interest?
  • What % of your energy intake do you think is used up by exercise? I doubt it’s bigger than 10-15%

    So that’s what, 300-400 calories a day, or 1 large glass of wine.

    Per one of my earlier posts, I reckon I get through circa 600/700 calories per day on average in terms of exercise, which is circa 25%-30% of the circa 2000 calories per day that a middle-aged guy of my size needs to simply exist.

    My guess is that no-one for whom "exercise doesn't work" gets remotely close to that level of exercise.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,009
    If I go skiing for a week I put on 2-3 kgs vs staying at home and riding.
    A typical ski day for me is 65-80+km (I am pretty quick around the mountain build on having done 5 seasons many years ago), so a bigger distance than your average skier.
    I'd say I eat about the same.

    When I had my embolism in 2021 and couldn't exercise for 5 weeks I put on 3-4 kg.
    I doubt I was eating much differently to normal either.

    Diet is of course hugely important, and probably the main factor - changing how, what and when you eat will generate big gains.

    But partaking in a proper exercise regime alongside an improved diet will speed up the process, with the added mental health benefits.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,038

    pblakeney said:

    pblakeney said:

    I thought it was pretty much established exercise basically doesn't really lose you weight and it's really all about diet.

    Quote as many reports as you like but I lost 3 stone by becoming a born again cyclist without changing my diet. I became a born again cyclist due to noticing I was becoming obese.
    😉
    How may miles do you do a week out of interest?
    100 miles as an average.
    Shorter trainer sessions in winter do tend to involve a lot of climbing though.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,202

    What % of your energy intake do you think is used up by exercise? I doubt it’s bigger than 10-15%

    So that’s what, 300-400 calories a day, or 1 large glass of wine.

    Per one of my earlier posts, I reckon I get through circa 600/700 calories per day on average in terms of exercise, which is circa 25%-30% of the circa 2000 calories per day that a middle-aged guy of my size needs to simply exist.

    My guess is that no-one for whom "exercise doesn't work" gets remotely close to that level of exercise.
    That's what, 3 hours of cycling a day?
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,124
    The second article down refers to the report I linked to on the previous page. It's not quite correct to say it concludes that exercise won't help you lose weight. What it says is that there is a rise in calories burned by moderate exercise but that this doesn't continue linearly with increased exercise. Basically at a certain point the exercise calories carry on increasing but the body adjusts its 'base rate' of calories required to compensate so the overall daily calorie use plateaus (it is still higher overall than without any exercise though).

    Highlights

    We measured total energy expenditure and physical activity in a large adult sample

    Above moderate activity levels, total energy expenditure plateaued

    Body fat percentage was positively related to total energy expenditure

    Activity intensity was inversely related to total energy expenditure
    Summary
    Current obesity prevention strategies recommend increasing daily physical activity, assuming that increased activity will lead to corresponding increases in total energy expenditure and prevent or reverse energy imbalance and weight gain [1, 2, 3]. Such Additive total energy expenditure models are supported by exercise intervention and accelerometry studies reporting positive correlations between physical activity and total energy expenditure [4] but are challenged by ecological studies in humans and other species showing that more active populations do not have higher total energy expenditure [5, 6, 7, 8]. Here we tested a Constrained total energy expenditure model, in which total energy expenditure increases with physical activity at low activity levels but plateaus at higher activity levels as the body adapts to maintain total energy expenditure within a narrow range. We compared total energy expenditure, measured using doubly labeled water, against physical activity, measured using accelerometry, for a large (n = 332) sample of adults living in five populations [9]. After adjusting for body size and composition, total energy expenditure was positively correlated with physical activity, but the relationship was markedly stronger over the lower range of physical activity. For subjects in the upper range of physical activity, total energy expenditure plateaued, supporting a Constrained total energy expenditure model. Body fat percentage and activity intensity appear to modulate the metabolic response to physical activity. Models of energy balance employed in public health [1, 2, 3] should be revised to better reflect the constrained nature of total energy expenditure and the complex effects of physical activity on metabolic physiology.


    My reading of that would be that if you go from a sedentary lifestyle to one of moderate activity you would use more calories and therefore lose weight if maintaining the same level of calorie intake (or at least slow down the increase of weight if your calorie surplus is presently extremely high) but that doing twice as much exercise isn't necessarily going to double the rate you lose weight. Note also that the benefit was higher for those with higher body fat so the sort of people we are talking about.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,202
    OMG guys.

    OK. Listen here. If you do a tonne of exercise you will lose weight.

    However, study after study after study finds *prescribing excercise does not help people lose weight*

    That's why the chief nutritionist at Public Health England and cardiologist adviser to the National Obesity Forum say that, if you want to lose weight, exercise is not the answer, nor is it even the most important factor.

    Diet is. End of.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,038

    What % of your energy intake do you think is used up by exercise? I doubt it’s bigger than 10-15%

    So that’s what, 300-400 calories a day, or 1 large glass of wine.

    Per one of my earlier posts, I reckon I get through circa 600/700 calories per day on average in terms of exercise, which is circa 25%-30% of the circa 2000 calories per day that a middle-aged guy of my size needs to simply exist.

    My guess is that no-one for whom "exercise doesn't work" gets remotely close to that level of exercise.
    That's what, 3 hours of cycling a day?
    I average 800 calories an hour.
    It is a stupid measurement though that nobody will claim as accurate or meaningful.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,202
    lol 800 calories an hour? What are you, riding with a sail or at 50kph?!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,202
    I like how you have professionals who look at this for a living saying it's diet, not exercise, and you lot are going "naaaaah"

    Gove was right. You have had enough of experts.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,038
    edited April 2023

    lol 800 calories an hour? What are you, riding with a sail or at 50kph?!

    According to Garmin and Strava that is what they report. They will base that on weight and heart rate so my figures will be higher than a lightweight. I also need more Watts.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.