'Ouses, Greenbelt and stuff

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  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    Epsom have released plans to build 5,000 homes on green belt land.

    Interestingly Grayling has released architects plans to show they could be built on brownfield sites.

    I suspect the flaw in his plan is that these are trading estates and he proposes keeping all the businesses there by increasing density.

    surrey_commuter said:

    Epsom have released plans to build 5,000 homes on green belt land.

    Interestingly Grayling has released architects plans to show they could be built on brownfield sites.

    I suspect the flaw in his plan is that these are trading estates and he proposes keeping all the businesses there by increasing density.

    As someone who grew up there I was intrigued. There's already been a huge amount of building, some on green belt, since I were a lad.

    They are building 2000 of the 5000 on green belt land. But frankly Hook Road Arena - the biggest site - has always been brown and it is not much of an amenity. If they built houses and preserved some park land in the development it would be used more as park land.

    Same goes for at least one of the other little parcels they've allocated. Only a few acres and already surrounded on all sides by development.
    Most of the green belt is a farm between existing developments so I really do not see that as a loss of amenity.

    Hook arena I am more bothered about as it is the venue for a magnificent fireworks display.
    I grew up literally across the road. And okay, I moved away from the area permanently over 30 years ago, but honestly, all I remember about Hook Road Arena was jogging around it with my Dad telling me to run faster, and the occasional dog poo. I can never recall it actually being used for an event, or any other human beings.

    I've not seen the plans, but I'd expect they would retain the arena itself, for the horse faced people who like horses. And you could blow some things up there in November if you still wanted.
    Maybe you could enlighten me what the "arena" was?

    They have a weekly car boot and I believe scouts use it for activities
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,706
    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    Epsom have released plans to build 5,000 homes on green belt land.

    Interestingly Grayling has released architects plans to show they could be built on brownfield sites.

    I suspect the flaw in his plan is that these are trading estates and he proposes keeping all the businesses there by increasing density.

    surrey_commuter said:

    Epsom have released plans to build 5,000 homes on green belt land.

    Interestingly Grayling has released architects plans to show they could be built on brownfield sites.

    I suspect the flaw in his plan is that these are trading estates and he proposes keeping all the businesses there by increasing density.

    As someone who grew up there I was intrigued. There's already been a huge amount of building, some on green belt, since I were a lad.

    They are building 2000 of the 5000 on green belt land. But frankly Hook Road Arena - the biggest site - has always been brown and it is not much of an amenity. If they built houses and preserved some park land in the development it would be used more as park land.

    Same goes for at least one of the other little parcels they've allocated. Only a few acres and already surrounded on all sides by development.
    Most of the green belt is a farm between existing developments so I really do not see that as a loss of amenity.

    Hook arena I am more bothered about as it is the venue for a magnificent fireworks display.
    I grew up literally across the road. And okay, I moved away from the area permanently over 30 years ago, but honestly, all I remember about Hook Road Arena was jogging around it with my Dad telling me to run faster, and the occasional dog poo. I can never recall it actually being used for an event, or any other human beings.

    I've not seen the plans, but I'd expect they would retain the arena itself, for the horse faced people who like horses. And you could blow some things up there in November if you still wanted.
    Maybe you could enlighten me what the "arena" was?

    They have a weekly car boot and I believe scouts use it for activities
    I always wondered myself. There's a round feature on Google maps. It is either an iron age fort or some form of arena.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,938
    edited February 2023
    surrey_commuter said:

    pblakeney said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    Epsom have released plans to build 5,000 homes on green belt land.

    Interestingly Grayling has released architects plans to show they could be built on brownfield sites.

    I suspect the flaw in his plan is that these are trading estates and he proposes keeping all the businesses there by increasing density.

    surrey_commuter said:

    Epsom have released plans to build 5,000 homes on green belt land.

    Interestingly Grayling has released architects plans to show they could be built on brownfield sites.

    I suspect the flaw in his plan is that these are trading estates and he proposes keeping all the businesses there by increasing density.

    As someone who grew up there I was intrigued. There's already been a huge amount of building, some on green belt, since I were a lad.

    They are building 2000 of the 5000 on green belt land. But frankly Hook Road Arena - the biggest site - has always been brown and it is not much of an amenity. If they built houses and preserved some park land in the development it would be used more as park land.

    Same goes for at least one of the other little parcels they've allocated. Only a few acres and already surrounded on all sides by development.
    Most of the green belt is a farm between existing developments so I really do not see that as a loss of amenity.

    Hook arena I am more bothered about as it is the venue for a magnificent fireworks display.
    I do believe that wins the first world problems comment of the week competition. 🤣
    it is very old school with a travelling fair and the stench of fired onions, burgers and weed from the wannabe surrey ganstas.
    Doubling down? 😉
    Reasons not to build in priority #1,000,000 when #1 is most important.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,841
    A Twitter thread I'm afraid, but quite a good dissection of the CPRE's wildly exaggerated claims of prime agricultural land being swallowed by a tsunami of housing.

    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    pblakeney said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    pblakeney said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    Epsom have released plans to build 5,000 homes on green belt land.

    Interestingly Grayling has released architects plans to show they could be built on brownfield sites.

    I suspect the flaw in his plan is that these are trading estates and he proposes keeping all the businesses there by increasing density.

    surrey_commuter said:

    Epsom have released plans to build 5,000 homes on green belt land.

    Interestingly Grayling has released architects plans to show they could be built on brownfield sites.

    I suspect the flaw in his plan is that these are trading estates and he proposes keeping all the businesses there by increasing density.

    As someone who grew up there I was intrigued. There's already been a huge amount of building, some on green belt, since I were a lad.

    They are building 2000 of the 5000 on green belt land. But frankly Hook Road Arena - the biggest site - has always been brown and it is not much of an amenity. If they built houses and preserved some park land in the development it would be used more as park land.

    Same goes for at least one of the other little parcels they've allocated. Only a few acres and already surrounded on all sides by development.
    Most of the green belt is a farm between existing developments so I really do not see that as a loss of amenity.

    Hook arena I am more bothered about as it is the venue for a magnificent fireworks display.
    I do believe that wins the first world problems comment of the week competition. 🤣
    it is very old school with a travelling fair and the stench of fired onions, burgers and weed from the wannabe surrey ganstas.
    Doubling down? 😉
    Reasons not to build in priority #1,000,000 when #1 is most important.
    If you want to interpret my comments as wanting to block building on a field so I can stand it in for two hours a year then crack on.

    Within three years my son won’t want to go with me so I just need to delay it.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,938
    surrey_commuter said:

    pblakeney said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    pblakeney said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    Epsom have released plans to build 5,000 homes on green belt land.

    Interestingly Grayling has released architects plans to show they could be built on brownfield sites.

    I suspect the flaw in his plan is that these are trading estates and he proposes keeping all the businesses there by increasing density.

    surrey_commuter said:

    Epsom have released plans to build 5,000 homes on green belt land.

    Interestingly Grayling has released architects plans to show they could be built on brownfield sites.

    I suspect the flaw in his plan is that these are trading estates and he proposes keeping all the businesses there by increasing density.

    As someone who grew up there I was intrigued. There's already been a huge amount of building, some on green belt, since I were a lad.

    They are building 2000 of the 5000 on green belt land. But frankly Hook Road Arena - the biggest site - has always been brown and it is not much of an amenity. If they built houses and preserved some park land in the development it would be used more as park land.

    Same goes for at least one of the other little parcels they've allocated. Only a few acres and already surrounded on all sides by development.
    Most of the green belt is a farm between existing developments so I really do not see that as a loss of amenity.

    Hook arena I am more bothered about as it is the venue for a magnificent fireworks display.
    I do believe that wins the first world problems comment of the week competition. 🤣
    it is very old school with a travelling fair and the stench of fired onions, burgers and weed from the wannabe surrey ganstas.
    Doubling down? 😉
    Reasons not to build in priority #1,000,000 when #1 is most important.
    If you want to interpret my comments as wanting to block building on a field so I can stand it in for two hours a year then crack on.

    Within three years my son won’t want to go with me so I just need to delay it.
    You were the one who said they were bothered about it.
    I couldn't care less. Crack on.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,841
    Something for everyone here.



    Read on for a deconstruction of the graph.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,980
    rick_chasey said:



    As long as all those rapeseed fields are protected 🙄🙄.
    More anecdotal stories from Cambridge. Friend of ours is trying to move house. Houses in a relatively desirable part of town getting around viewing applications on the first day they go on sales and are still going for substantially above asking price. They're still 2/3 bed terraces, mind

    I know the story is grimmer across the UK but the frenzy over here still feels weird. There is just not enough housing to go around and it's making for weird dynamics.
    _
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    rick_chasey said:



    As long as all those rapeseed fields are protected 🙄🙄.
    More anecdotal stories from Cambridge. Friend of ours is trying to move house. Houses in a relatively desirable part of town getting around viewing applications on the first day they go on sales and are still going for substantially above asking price. They're still 2/3 bed terraces, mind

    I know the story is grimmer across the UK but the frenzy over here still feels weird. There is just not enough housing to go around and it's making for weird dynamics.
    can you translate that
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,980
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    rick_chasey said:



    As long as all those rapeseed fields are protected 🙄🙄.
    More anecdotal stories from Cambridge. Friend of ours is trying to move house. Houses in a relatively desirable part of town getting around viewing applications on the first day they go on sales and are still going for substantially above asking price. They're still 2/3 bed terraces, mind

    I know the story is grimmer across the UK but the frenzy over here still feels weird. There is just not enough housing to go around and it's making for weird dynamics.
    can you translate that
    National market is in a downturn. Local Cambridge market is still hot.

    I suspect lack of options in town (because of green belt restrictions) is playing a large role.
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,926
    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    rick_chasey said:



    As long as all those rapeseed fields are protected 🙄🙄.
    More anecdotal stories from Cambridge. Friend of ours is trying to move house. Houses in a relatively desirable part of town getting around viewing applications on the first day they go on sales and are still going for substantially above asking price. They're still 2/3 bed terraces, mind

    I know the story is grimmer across the UK but the frenzy over here still feels weird. There is just not enough housing to go around and it's making for weird dynamics.
    can you translate that
    National market is in a downturn. Local Cambridge market is still hot.

    I suspect lack of options in town (because of green belt restrictions) is playing a large role.
    I've been tentatively looking in these parts (just browsing Rightmove as it's going to take getting something that really appeals to us both in order to go further). It's a really odd market, some seem more expensive than I would have thought but sell quickly whilst others look like relative bargains but have been hanging around for months with several price reductions. They must have issues when viewed in the flesh or something. The amount of reduced prices seems to be increasing though and I'm also starting to see houses coming back on the market as sales presumably have fallen through.

    Any cooling of the market isn't really a good sign for those looking to get on the housing ladder though as it is just the merry go round of existing homeowners slowing as they start to worry about their jobs and disposable income shrinks. What's really needed is a cooling due to supply being more balanced against demand.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    rick_chasey said:



    As long as all those rapeseed fields are protected 🙄🙄.
    More anecdotal stories from Cambridge. Friend of ours is trying to move house. Houses in a relatively desirable part of town getting around viewing applications on the first day they go on sales and are still going for substantially above asking price. They're still 2/3 bed terraces, mind

    I know the story is grimmer across the UK but the frenzy over here still feels weird. There is just not enough housing to go around and it's making for weird dynamics.
    can you translate that
    National market is in a downturn. Local Cambridge market is still hot.

    I suspect lack of options in town (because of green belt restrictions) is playing a large role.
    I've been tentatively looking in these parts (just browsing Rightmove as it's going to take getting something that really appeals to us both in order to go further). It's a really odd market, some seem more expensive than I would have thought but sell quickly whilst others look like relative bargains but have been hanging around for months with several price reductions. They must have issues when viewed in the flesh or something. The amount of reduced prices seems to be increasing though and I'm also starting to see houses coming back on the market as sales presumably have fallen through.

    Any cooling of the market isn't really a good sign for those looking to get on the housing ladder though as it is just the merry go round of existing homeowners slowing as they start to worry about their jobs and disposable income shrinks. What's really needed is a cooling due to supply being more balanced against demand.
    or a reduction in demand. I think they are doing a good job of the gradual disincetives for private BTL. Obviously that is less good news for tenants in the private rented sector
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,841
    A few people stung by banks being much more cautious about what they will lend.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,841
    edited February 2023
    Slight deviation but related. While I think developers are too easily made out as the baddies, this almost made me spit my tea out.

    https://capx.co/michael-gove-has-picked-the-worst-possible-time-to-strong-arm-the-builders/

    Robert Colville comparing developers being compelled to sort out the mess of unsafe cladding on their buildings to "Putin's Russia".

    I mean just f*** off.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,926
    In a bit of a reversal of the normal way of things, Councillors in Bristol yesterday unanimously overturned a recommendation to refuse an application for a mixed-use Brownfield development adjacent to 'Crack Alley' in Stokes Croft. The development had widespread support from the public apparently but was being recommended for refusal on minor design grounds that had already been addressed and submitted but ignored.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,841
    🎉
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 18,135
    rjsterry said:

    Slight deviation but related. While I think developers are too easily made out as the baddies, this almost made me spit my tea out.

    https://capx.co/michael-gove-has-picked-the-worst-possible-time-to-strong-arm-the-builders/

    Robert Colville comparing developers being compelled to sort out the mess of unsafe cladding on their buildings to "Putin's Russia".

    I mean just f*** off.


    Colville is part of the Centre for Policy Studies...

    Funding
    Think tank Transparify, which is funded by the Open Society Foundations, ranked the CPS as one of the four least transparent think tanks in the UK in relation to funding. Transparify's report How Transparent are Think Tanks about Who Funds Them 2016? rated them as 'highly opaque,' one of 'a handful of think tanks that refuse to reveal even the identities of their donors.[12]

    In November 2022, the funding transparency website Who Funds You? gave the CPS an E grade, the lowest transparency rating (rating goes from A to E).[13]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_for_Policy_Studies
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,204
    edited May 2023

    What can be done about building more homes for people to live in? Because the parties know that softening planning regulation is a vote losing policy.

    Young people should have the ability to do this, with supply being so poor demand is always going to make housing too expensive for many to take the step on the ladder. Their only option shouldn't be renting.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,980
    edited June 2023


    Why is everything related to housing quite so sh!t
    _
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,938
    rick_chasey said:



    Why is everything … quite so sh!t

    I wonder about the bigger picture.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • wavefront
    wavefront Posts: 397
    Went down a YouTube rabbit hole yesterday and saw that there are various towns around the uk which have a huge number of roads lined with vast amounts of derelict housing. (Peterlee etc) And then a vid showing the lengths people go to (or what they put up with) to live in London.

    I know it’s complex (economics) but the naive part of me just throws his hands in the air when I then see plans for even more vast crowded developments in London, or plans for ‘new towns’ in crowded English counties, or fights over where are they going to build new houses, when there are many many towns that stand derelict and forgotten. Feels such a waste.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,980
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,926
    I see Ilke Hkmes have recently gone into administration. I did a bit of work for them in the past and they felt like they were at the forefront of how to get high quality, sustainable housing built quickly.

    Their houses were modular units built in factories off site giving better quality control and energy efficient buildings although once erected they looked like traditional brick houses.

    Not sure what happened in the background but I still think that’s the best way forward for mass market housing.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    @pross I am loosely involved in new build housing I can ask for you.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,980
    That Gove leak to the times about 250,000 more homes by 2040 in Cambridge has brought out all the worst local NIMBYs and people who cannot understand that the big majority of people in Cambridge have nothing to do with the uni and so give absolutely no sh!ts about the Oxbridge rivalry.
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,926
    edited July 2023
    rick_chasey said:

    That Gove leak to the times about 250,000 more homes by 2040 in Cambridge has brought out all the worst local NIMBYs and people who cannot understand that the big majority of people in Cambridge have nothing to do with the uni and so give absolutely no sh!ts about the Oxbridge rivalry.

    I haven't seen that leak but I think even I'd be up in arms at 250,000 new homes in a minor regional city. The current population is around 150,000 so that would get increased to around 1 million. Are you sure you have the correct number or did you mean 25,000? Even 25,000 would be a struggle to get actually built in 17 years with the current planning system and construction skills shortages.

    Edit - I've just found reports, it's obvious Gove is still indulging in hard drug use.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,841
    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    That Gove leak to the times about 250,000 more homes by 2040 in Cambridge has brought out all the worst local NIMBYs and people who cannot understand that the big majority of people in Cambridge have nothing to do with the uni and so give absolutely no sh!ts about the Oxbridge rivalry.

    I haven't seen that leak but I think even I'd be up in arms at 250,000 new homes in a minor regional city. The current population is around 150,000 so that would get increased to around 1 million. Are you sure you have the correct number or did you mean 25,000? Even 25,000 would be a struggle to get actually built in 17 years with the current planning system and construction skills shortages.

    Edit - I've just found reports, it's obvious Gove is still indulging in hard drug use.
    It's so obviously an bullsh*t figure. It's more than the entire country builds in a year. Why is anyone taking it seriously?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,926
    rjsterry said:

    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    That Gove leak to the times about 250,000 more homes by 2040 in Cambridge has brought out all the worst local NIMBYs and people who cannot understand that the big majority of people in Cambridge have nothing to do with the uni and so give absolutely no sh!ts about the Oxbridge rivalry.

    I haven't seen that leak but I think even I'd be up in arms at 250,000 new homes in a minor regional city. The current population is around 150,000 so that would get increased to around 1 million. Are you sure you have the correct number or did you mean 25,000? Even 25,000 would be a struggle to get actually built in 17 years with the current planning system and construction skills shortages.

    Edit - I've just found reports, it's obvious Gove is still indulging in hard drug use.
    It's so obviously an bullsh*t figure. It's more than the entire country builds in a year. Why is anyone taking it seriously?
    I just love the irony that the Tories have backtracked on their policies to make development easier and remove Councils' requirements to deliver housing targets to keep the Home County NIMBYS happy but now they are going to smooth the path to make one rural city 7-8 times larger than it is at present together with associated infrastructure and industry by removing environmental regualtions (and also build over some of the most productive farmland in the country).

    Do you think they ever spend time considering their policies before announcing them? I'm also not sure Silicon Valley is a good role model as even well paid tech industry employees are unable to afford to live there and have to spend hours commuting or, apparentyly, sleep in their offices / cars. I guess it will all be irrelevant after next year's election anyway.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,980
    Also shows how the Tories are incapable of thinking about the North
    _
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 18,135
    Pross said:

    rjsterry said:

    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    That Gove leak to the times about 250,000 more homes by 2040 in Cambridge has brought out all the worst local NIMBYs and people who cannot understand that the big majority of people in Cambridge have nothing to do with the uni and so give absolutely no sh!ts about the Oxbridge rivalry.

    I haven't seen that leak but I think even I'd be up in arms at 250,000 new homes in a minor regional city. The current population is around 150,000 so that would get increased to around 1 million. Are you sure you have the correct number or did you mean 25,000? Even 25,000 would be a struggle to get actually built in 17 years with the current planning system and construction skills shortages.

    Edit - I've just found reports, it's obvious Gove is still indulging in hard drug use.
    It's so obviously an bullsh*t figure. It's more than the entire country builds in a year. Why is anyone taking it seriously?
    I just love the irony that the Tories have backtracked on their policies to make development easier and remove Councils' requirements to deliver housing targets to keep the Home County NIMBYS happy but now they are going to smooth the path to make one rural city 7-8 times larger than it is at present together with associated infrastructure and industry by removing environmental regualtions (and also build over some of the most productive farmland in the country).

    Do you think they ever spend time considering their policies before announcing them? I'm also not sure Silicon Valley is a good role model as even well paid tech industry employees are unable to afford to live there and have to spend hours commuting or, apparentyly, sleep in their offices / cars. I guess it will all be irrelevant after next year's election anyway.

    If were a serious proposal, I'd be interested in the impact of concreting over low-lying farmland on this scale... seems like a long way for run-off water to get to the sea when the elevation is about 10m ASL.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois

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