British Honours
Comments
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There may be a 2nd order generation gap here.RichN95. said:
Yes. He’s an icon on a par with the likes of Elvis and Marilyn MonroeTheBigBean said:
Isn't it an age thing? Do people under 30 know Ali?tailwindhome said:
For context it was part of a discussion of Messi v Pele and famePross said:If you watch Pointless it is amazing how sportspeople with hugely successful careers are not known / quickly forgotten by the public (assuming the 100 people they use are vaguely representative). Then again most of them struggle to identify top politicians or even well known actors / musicians.
I reckoned the big 3 sporting figures who *everyone* knows were Pele, Ali, and Tiger Woods
The only cyclist considered close to this category was Lance
The world's a smaller place that it used to be. Pele is a legend based on 4 or 5 matches shown in 1970.
There's weeks of footage of Messi/Ronaldo online. You can even watch them on your TV twice a week. Play as them on FIFA.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Do people under 30 know Marilyn Monroe?RichN95. said:
Yes. He’s an icon on a par with the likes of Elvis and Marilyn MonroeTheBigBean said:
Isn't it an age thing? Do people under 30 know Ali?tailwindhome said:
For context it was part of a discussion of Messi v Pele and famePross said:If you watch Pointless it is amazing how sportspeople with hugely successful careers are not known / quickly forgotten by the public (assuming the 100 people they use are vaguely representative). Then again most of them struggle to identify top politicians or even well known actors / musicians.
I reckoned the big 3 sporting figures who *everyone* knows were Pele, Ali, and Tiger Woods
The only cyclist considered close to this category was Lance0 -
Seriously?TheBigBean said:
Do people under 30 know Marilyn Monroe?RichN95. said:
Yes. He’s an icon on a par with the likes of Elvis and Marilyn MonroeTheBigBean said:
Isn't it an age thing? Do people under 30 know Ali?tailwindhome said:
For context it was part of a discussion of Messi v Pele and famePross said:If you watch Pointless it is amazing how sportspeople with hugely successful careers are not known / quickly forgotten by the public (assuming the 100 people they use are vaguely representative). Then again most of them struggle to identify top politicians or even well known actors / musicians.
I reckoned the big 3 sporting figures who *everyone* knows were Pele, Ali, and Tiger Woods
The only cyclist considered close to this category was Lance.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Like seriously seriously?.
The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Those 30 year olds were 9 when Will Smith played Ali.MattFalle said:Exactly as Rich says.
Iconic figure.
The recent blockbuster film about him with the Fresh Prince as him won't have done his legacy any harm.
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TheBigBean said:
Do people under 30 know Marilyn Monroe?RichN95. said:
Yes. He’s an icon on a par with the likes of Elvis and Marilyn MonroeTheBigBean said:
Isn't it an age thing? Do people under 30 know Ali?tailwindhome said:
For context it was part of a discussion of Messi v Pele and famePross said:If you watch Pointless it is amazing how sportspeople with hugely successful careers are not known / quickly forgotten by the public (assuming the 100 people they use are vaguely representative). Then again most of them struggle to identify top politicians or even well known actors / musicians.
I reckoned the big 3 sporting figures who *everyone* knows were Pele, Ali, and Tiger Woods
The only cyclist considered close to this category was Lance
Yes. Do you ever talk to young people? They've got an extensive knowledge beyond YouTube and TikTok.
Marilyn Monroe had been dead for a decade when I was bornTwitter: @RichN951 -
My 19 year old daughter certainly knows who Monroe was but Audrey Hepburn is her style icon.
I find the idea of not knowing people from before you were born a bit odd. I’m even aware that England won a football World Cup years before I was born (I even recognise and can name some of the team).0 -
I think it is common to know people who were born before you, because the older generation go on about them a lot. The generation after that then only know about them if they were historically significant. This is very evident if you do the Times crossword where references to famous people are those known by people aged 70+ (and rarely known by me).Pross said:My 19 year old daughter certainly knows who Monroe was but Audrey Hepburn is her style icon.
I find the idea of not knowing people from before you were born a bit odd. I’m even aware that England won a football World Cup years before I was born (I even recognise and can name some of the team).
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I am assuming most nominations come from the ministers and their minions. You have to work on the basis that most of these people have limited knowledge of sports and what constitutes a significant career or achievement in a given sport. That's why they tend towards recognising olympic medallists and for cyclists, that is largely represented by track cyclists.
It also highlights why those with outstanding achievements in less well known sports get overlooked or are awarded honours way below their contribution to a given sport. Someone like Peter Nicol in squash is one of the greatest players of the modern era but only has an MBE. Nick Matthew won three world titles and 3 British open titles and only has an OBE.
I am sure there are countless other examples of undervalued (and over valued!) sport stars.0 -
Steve Davis only has an OBE.0
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You're talking about a different film - I'm referring to the one that the Fresh Prince was in.shinyhelmut said:
Those 30 year olds were 9 when Will Smith played Ali.MattFalle said:Exactly as Rich says.
Iconic figure.
The recent blockbuster film about him with the Fresh Prince as him won't have done his legacy any harm.
Will Smith may have done one but I haven't seen it..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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I just asked the bambini - 16 and 13 - if they knew who Marilyn Monroe is.
They both said that was the dumbest question I've ever asked and, trust me, I've asked loads of dumb questions..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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and? you reckon he deserves more?TheBigBean said:Steve Davis only has an OBE.
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Sorry - you're saying that to be in the civil service you have to be bereft of sporting knowledge?MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:I am assuming most nominations come from the ministers and their minions. You have to work on the basis that most of these people have limited knowledge of sports and what constitutes a significant career or achievement in a given sport. That's why they tend towards recognising olympic medallists and for cyclists, that is largely represented by track cyclists.
It also highlights why those with outstanding achievements in less well known sports get overlooked or are awarded honours way below their contribution to a given sport. Someone like Peter Nicol in squash is one of the greatest players of the modern era but only has an MBE. Nick Matthew won three world titles and 3 British open titles and only has an OBE.
I am sure there are countless other examples of undervalued (and over valued!) sport stars.
seriously?.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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no.carbonclem said:Lizzie D just picked up her MBE. Should have been O.
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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We seems to have stumbled into Daily Mail territory.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10788001/Pankhurst-Picasso-lost-young-research-suggests-large-number-gaps-knowledge.html
A survey of 18-30 years produced the following list. Figures are the percentage able to recognise the person.
Rich was correct that Ali is as recognisable as Monroe.
These were the top 35 most forgotten icons among 18-30 year old Brits:
1. Mary Seacole - 91 per cent
2. Frida Kahlo - 89 per cent
3. Virginia Woolf - 80 per cent
4. Alan Turing - 79 per cent
5. Ginger Rogers - 77 per cent
6. Emmeline Pankhurst - 77 per cent
7. Marlon Brando - 72 per cent
8. Cary Grant - 74 per cent
9. Fred Astaire - 73 per cent
10. Bette Davis - 75 per cent
11. Jim Morrison - 74 per cent
12. Sigmund Freud - 74 per cent
13. Mahatma Gandhi - 72 per cent
14. George Orwell - 73 per cent
15. Rosa Parks - 73 per cent
16. Andy Warhol - 71 per cent
17. Aretha Franklin - 68 per cent
18. Alfred Hitchcock - 65 per cent
19. Jimi Hendrix - 63 per cent
20. Audrey Hepburn - 66 per cent
21. Kurt Cobain - 66 per cent
22. Charlie Chaplin - 59 per cent
23. Pablo Picasso - 66 per cent
24. Marie Curie - 62 per cent
25. Muhammad Ali - 50 per cent
26. Florence Nightingale - 58 per cent
27. Bruce Lee - 56 per cent
28. Nelson Mandela - 55 per cent
29. Martin Luther King - 54 per cent
30. Neil Armstrong - 53 per cent
31. JF Kennedy - 53 per cent
32. Anne Frank - 51 per cent
33. Bob Marley - 51 per cent
34. John Lennon - 49 per cent
35. Marilyn Monroe - 49 per cent0 -
Tbh, you can't blame them for not knowing Frida Cahlo or Mary Seacole.....
The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Sorry - you're saying that to be in the civil service you have to be bereft of sporting knowledge?
Nope, at what point did I say that?
My point was, based on honours given, there seems to be a promotion of honours for individuals in more high profile sports, or those who have achieved success in more visible events such as the Olympics, and an underappreciation of significant sporting achievements in less well known sports.
That suggests a lack of in depth knowledge of sporting achievements by those making nominations, some of whom will be Civil Servants.
It is not a statement that all civil servants know nothing about sport.
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Tyson gets more pop than Ali with younger people.RichN95. said:
Yes. He’s an icon on a par with the likes of Elvis and Marilyn MonroeTheBigBean said:
Isn't it an age thing? Do people under 30 know Ali?tailwindhome said:
For context it was part of a discussion of Messi v Pele and famePross said:If you watch Pointless it is amazing how sportspeople with hugely successful careers are not known / quickly forgotten by the public (assuming the 100 people they use are vaguely representative). Then again most of them struggle to identify top politicians or even well known actors / musicians.
I reckoned the big 3 sporting figures who *everyone* knows were Pele, Ali, and Tiger Woods
The only cyclist considered close to this category was Lance0 -
Basically, if a sport is not shown live on the BBC then forget about honours.MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:Sorry - you're saying that to be in the civil service you have to be bereft of sporting knowledge?
Nope, at what point did I say that?
My point was, based on honours given, there seems to be a promotion of honours for individuals in more high profile sports, or those who have achieved success in more visible events such as the Olympics, and an underappreciation of significant sporting achievements in less well known sports.
That suggests a lack of in depth knowledge of sporting achievements by those making nominations, some of whom will be Civil Servants.
It is not a statement that all civil servants know nothing about sport.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
There was an Eddie Izzard bit back in the day about advertisers going around supermarkets asking people if they "are happy with their wash". This thread has gone the same direction. Now, it's just have young people ever heard of X. 😛PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20230
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The impact of Horrible Histories on the historical knowledge of a generation is not to be underestimated.TheBigBean said:We seems to have stumbled into Daily Mail territory.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10788001/Pankhurst-Picasso-lost-young-research-suggests-large-number-gaps-knowledge.html
A survey of 18-30 years produced the following list. Figures are the percentage able to recognise the person.
Rich was correct that Ali is as recognisable as Monroe.
These were the top 35 most forgotten icons among 18-30 year old Brits:
1. Mary Seacole - 91 per cent
2. Frida Kahlo - 89 per cent
3. Virginia Woolf - 80 per cent
4. Alan Turing - 79 per cent
5. Ginger Rogers - 77 per cent
6. Emmeline Pankhurst - 77 per cent
7. Marlon Brando - 72 per cent
8. Cary Grant - 74 per cent
9. Fred Astaire - 73 per cent
10. Bette Davis - 75 per cent
11. Jim Morrison - 74 per cent
12. Sigmund Freud - 74 per cent
13. Mahatma Gandhi - 72 per cent
14. George Orwell - 73 per cent
15. Rosa Parks - 73 per cent
16. Andy Warhol - 71 per cent
17. Aretha Franklin - 68 per cent
18. Alfred Hitchcock - 65 per cent
19. Jimi Hendrix - 63 per cent
20. Audrey Hepburn - 66 per cent
21. Kurt Cobain - 66 per cent
22. Charlie Chaplin - 59 per cent
23. Pablo Picasso - 66 per cent
24. Marie Curie - 62 per cent
25. Muhammad Ali - 50 per cent
26. Florence Nightingale - 58 per cent
27. Bruce Lee - 56 per cent
28. Nelson Mandela - 55 per cent
29. Martin Luther King - 54 per cent
30. Neil Armstrong - 53 per cent
31. JF Kennedy - 53 per cent
32. Anne Frank - 51 per cent
33. Bob Marley - 51 per cent
34. John Lennon - 49 per cent
35. Marilyn Monroe - 49 per cent
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I'd be surprised if they used the picture from the article to ask if anyone recognised Brando.
There's a bit of a hint there.0 -
Mrs KG got a quiz question right about the nationality of Nairo Quintana so she's evidence of the absorption of knowledge by osmosis.0
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here. generally your first two paragraphs.MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:I am assuming most nominations come from the ministers and their minions. You have to work on the basis that most of these people have limited knowledge of sports and what constitutes a significant career or achievement in a given sport. That's why they tend towards recognising olympic medallists and for cyclists, that is largely represented by track cyclists.
It also highlights why those with outstanding achievements in less well known sports get overlooked or are awarded honours way below their contribution to a given sport. Someone like Peter Nicol in squash is one of the greatest players of the modern era but only has an MBE. Nick Matthew won three world titles and 3 British open titles and only has an OBE.
I am sure there are countless other examples of undervalued (and over valued!) sport stars.
"these people have limited knowledge of sports" sorta gives it away..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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here. generally your first two paragraphs.
"these people have limited knowledge of sports" sorta gives it away.
Now, now Matthew, you naughty little sausage, willfully misrepresenting what I actually said.
You and the MF's come along and pretend you don't understand nuance! Half an hour on the naughty step for MF and the MF's for being deliberately obtuse.
And you can have your catapult back at the end of school on Friday, good behaviour permitting.1 -
😀😀😀👍👍MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:here. generally your first two paragraphs.
"these people have limited knowledge of sports" sorta gives it away.
Now, now Matthew, you naughty little sausage, willfully misrepresenting what I actually said.
You and the MF's come along and pretend you don't understand nuance! Half an hour on the naughty step for MF and the MF's for being deliberately obtuse.
And you can have your catapult back at the end of school on Friday, good behaviour permitting..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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As if to prove @RichN95. point for him:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/03/mark-cavendish-and-wife-hid-son-as-robbers-threatened-them-court-hears
Opens with "The Olympic silver medallist Mark Cavendish and his wife ..."0
