The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)

pblakeney

I manage to make a good cup of coffee at home. Hey ho...

Stevo_666

Free parking in quite a few of the streets in the town near where I live, just a few minutes walk from the town centre/high street. Plenty of paid parking as well, although parking charges seem to be for people who can't be bothered to do a short walk.

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

Free parking in quite a few of the streets in the town near where I live, just a few minutes walk from the town centre/high street. Plenty of paid parking as well, although parking charges seem to be for people who can't be bothered to do a short walk.

Topsham is one of those places where there is very limited and finite parking (rivers on two sides and none of the approach roads suitable, and no more space for additional car parks), so making visitors pay both helps the turnover of cars, and encourages people to use feet, bike, bus or train, and the income from parking helps a bit with keeping council tax down. The last thing the council wants to do is to encourage more people to use their cars to come here.

kingstongraham

It's a really good place to ride a bike to.

briantrumpet

kingstongraham said:

It's a really good place to ride a bike to.

It's not a bad place from which to ride a bike too.

carbonclem

briantrumpet said:

I find it hard to get into people's heads sometimes. There was no free parking left (there isn't any here, durr!) she wouldn't park where there were spaces because the cost was too high, and she'd driven all the way to Topsham to have a coffee, and then drove somewhere else, I assume to have her coffee. It must be so stressful finding a coffee with such needs.

Anyway, thankfully she took to Facebook to tell us her tale of woe.

I'm sure she'd be happier with a retail park that has a drive through Costa

Stevo_666

Not sure how happy the coffee shop owner is with that, especially if that becomes a common problem.

davebradswmb

Stevo_666 said:

Not sure how happy the coffee shop owner is with that, especially if that becomes a common problem.

They're OK with it, it's more than made up for by the number of cyclists buying coffees, and cake.

First.Aspect

Stevo_666 said:

Not sure how happy the coffee shop owner is with that, especially if that becomes a common problem.

Shop and hospitality owners often complain that people can't drive past their shop. What they should really complain about, unless they work for burger king, is that people can't walk past.

I tend to walk in places that are nice to walk. This tends not to include places where there are lots of cars, parked or otherwise, because all parked cars get driven there.

Stevo_666

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

Not sure how happy the coffee shop owner is with that, especially if that becomes a common problem.

Shop and hospitality owners often complain that people can't drive past their shop. What they should really complain about, unless they work for burger king, is that people can't walk past.

I tend to walk in places that are nice to walk. This tends not to include places where there are lots of cars, parked or otherwise, because all parked cars get driven there.

Shouldn't be a problem as long as there is a pavement outside the shop.

Stevo_666

davebradswmb said:

Stevo_666 said:

Not sure how happy the coffee shop owner is with that, especially if that becomes a common problem.

They're OK with it, it's more than made up for by the number of cyclists buying coffees, and cake.

So you live there and have counted the cyclists? And asked the shop owner?

Pross

Stevo_666 said:

Not sure how happy the coffee shop owner is with that, especially if that becomes a common problem.

So are you agreeing that too many cars are making things bad for business? If a place only has scope for a finite amount of parking and all those spaces are always full what is the solution other than trying to attract business from people not arriving by car?

Stevo_666

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Not sure how happy the coffee shop owner is with that, especially if that becomes a common problem.

So are you agreeing that too many cars are making things bad for business? If a place only has scope for a finite amount of parking and all those spaces are always full what is the solution other than trying to attract business from people not arriving by car?

No, quite the opposite. They are losing customers because of inadequate parking facilities. Pretty obvious reallly.

Pross

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Not sure how happy the coffee shop owner is with that, especially if that becomes a common problem.

So are you agreeing that too many cars are making things bad for business? If a place only has scope for a finite amount of parking and all those spaces are always full what is the solution other than trying to attract business from people not arriving by car?

No, quite the opposite. They are losing customers because of inadequate parking facilities. Pretty obvious reallly.

But if they can't fit any more parking into a place that is constrained (for the reasons Brian explained) what are they supposed to do? In the case cited, there was parking but some entitled person didn't want to have to pay to use it despite having spent money on fuel driving somewhere purely to get a cup of coffee. It's like the people I see who complain they drove to walk up Pen-y-Fan but couldn't find anywhere to park because it was too busy. I think the term is fuckwits.

Stevo_666

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Not sure how happy the coffee shop owner is with that, especially if that becomes a common problem.

So are you agreeing that too many cars are making things bad for business? If a place only has scope for a finite amount of parking and all those spaces are always full what is the solution other than trying to attract business from people not arriving by car?

No, quite the opposite. They are losing customers because of inadequate parking facilities. Pretty obvious reallly.

But if they can't fit any more parking into a place that is constrained (for the reasons Brian explained) what are they supposed to do? In the case cited, there was parking but some entitled person didn't want to have to pay to use it despite having spent money on fuel driving somewhere purely to get a cup of coffee. It's like the people I see who complain they drove to walk up Pen-y-Fan but couldn't find anywhere to park because it was too busy. I think the term is fuckwits.

Another car park not too far away? Don't care that much as I'll never go there.

Stevo_666

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Not sure how happy the coffee shop owner is with that, especially if that becomes a common problem.

So are you agreeing that too many cars are making things bad for business? If a place only has scope for a finite amount of parking and all those spaces are always full what is the solution other than trying to attract business from people not arriving by car?

No, quite the opposite. They are losing customers because of inadequate parking facilities. Pretty obvious reallly.

But if they can't fit any more parking into a place that is constrained (for the reasons Brian explained) what are they supposed to do? In the case cited, there was parking but some entitled person didn't want to have to pay to use it despite having spent money on fuel driving somewhere purely to get a cup of coffee. It's like the people I see who complain they drove to walk up Pen-y-Fan but couldn't find anywhere to park because it was too busy. I think the term is fuckwits.

Another car park not too far away? Don't care that much as I'll never go there.

Stevo_666

Double post.

pangolin

A valiant retreat to "don't care" after realising that suggesting more parking after 2 people have said that isn't possible maybe isn't a fantastic solution.

pangolin

Also... again... there was parking

First.Aspect

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Not sure how happy the coffee shop owner is with that, especially if that becomes a common problem.

So are you agreeing that too many cars are making things bad for business? If a place only has scope for a finite amount of parking and all those spaces are always full what is the solution other than trying to attract business from people not arriving by car?

No, quite the opposite. They are losing customers because of inadequate parking facilities. Pretty obvious reallly.

But if they can't fit any more parking into a place that is constrained (for the reasons Brian explained) what are they supposed to do? In the case cited, there was parking but some entitled person didn't want to have to pay to use it despite having spent money on fuel driving somewhere purely to get a cup of coffee. It's like the people I see who complain they drove to walk up Pen-y-Fan but couldn't find anywhere to park because it was too busy. I think the term is fuckwits.

Another car park not too far away? Don't care that much as I'll never go there.

You may well find that for may people, "not too far away" excludes anything other than surprisingly small distances.

First.Aspect

So out of curiosity, I checked on Google maps. There are no fewer than 7 car parks withing a roughly 20 min walk of Topsham quay.

Presumably 6 of them are therefore not classified as "not too far away".

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

So out of curiosity, I checked on Google maps. There are no fewer than 7 car parks withing a roughly 20 min walk of Topsham quay.

Presumably 6 of them are therefore not classified as "not too far away".

Not sure even I’d do a 40 min round trip for a coffee.

Stevo_666

pangolin said:

A valiant retreat to "don't care" after realising that suggesting more parking after 2 people have said that isn't possible maybe isn't a fantastic solution.

Depends how far away you put it, could be close enough to be convenient for some.

Now get back under your bridge if you've got nothing to contribute

Stevo_666

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Not sure how happy the coffee shop owner is with that, especially if that becomes a common problem.

So are you agreeing that too many cars are making things bad for business? If a place only has scope for a finite amount of parking and all those spaces are always full what is the solution other than trying to attract business from people not arriving by car?

No, quite the opposite. They are losing customers because of inadequate parking facilities. Pretty obvious reallly.

But if they can't fit any more parking into a place that is constrained (for the reasons Brian explained) what are they supposed to do? In the case cited, there was parking but some entitled person didn't want to have to pay to use it despite having spent money on fuel driving somewhere purely to get a cup of coffee. It's like the people I see who complain they drove to walk up Pen-y-Fan but couldn't find anywhere to park because it was too busy. I think the term is fuckwits.

Another car park not too far away? Don't care that much as I'll never go there.

You may well find that for may people, "not too far away" excludes anything other than surprisingly small distances.

Probably, as quite a few people are lazy.

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

So out of curiosity, I checked on Google maps. There are no fewer than 7 car parks withing a roughly 20 min walk of Topsham quay.

Presumably 6 of them are therefore not classified as "not too far away".

Not sure even I’d do a 40 min round trip for a coffee.

I'm sure it's lovely coffee, but surely the destination is Topsham, rather than the coffee shop per se.

Unless you are visiting Brian, or emigrating, it's not as if it's on the way to anywhere.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Not sure how happy the coffee shop owner is with that, especially if that becomes a common problem.

So are you agreeing that too many cars are making things bad for business? If a place only has scope for a finite amount of parking and all those spaces are always full what is the solution other than trying to attract business from people not arriving by car?

No, quite the opposite. They are losing customers because of inadequate parking facilities. Pretty obvious reallly.

But if they can't fit any more parking into a place that is constrained (for the reasons Brian explained) what are they supposed to do? In the case cited, there was parking but some entitled person didn't want to have to pay to use it despite having spent money on fuel driving somewhere purely to get a cup of coffee. It's like the people I see who complain they drove to walk up Pen-y-Fan but couldn't find anywhere to park because it was too busy. I think the term is fuckwits.

Another car park not too far away? Don't care that much as I'll never go there.

It's surrounded on all sides by two rivers and a motorway. There's no unused land. You'd probably call it overcrowded 😁

Closest place you could conceivably build a car park is about a 25 minute walk away.

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Not sure how happy the coffee shop owner is with that, especially if that becomes a common problem.

So are you agreeing that too many cars are making things bad for business? If a place only has scope for a finite amount of parking and all those spaces are always full what is the solution other than trying to attract business from people not arriving by car?

No, quite the opposite. They are losing customers because of inadequate parking facilities. Pretty obvious reallly.

But if they can't fit any more parking into a place that is constrained (for the reasons Brian explained) what are they supposed to do? In the case cited, there was parking but some entitled person didn't want to have to pay to use it despite having spent money on fuel driving somewhere purely to get a cup of coffee. It's like the people I see who complain they drove to walk up Pen-y-Fan but couldn't find anywhere to park because it was too busy. I think the term is fuckwits.

Another car park not too far away? Don't care that much as I'll never go there.

You may well find that for may people, "not too far away" excludes anything other than surprisingly small distances.

Probably, as quite a few people are lazy.

Mostly car drivers. Weird, eh?

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

So out of curiosity, I checked on Google maps. There are no fewer than 7 car parks withing a roughly 20 min walk of Topsham quay.

Presumably 6 of them are therefore not classified as "not too far away".

Not sure even I’d do a 40 min round trip for a coffee.

On top of a return car trip.
If the journey was purely for a coffee then that is nuts.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Not sure how happy the coffee shop owner is with that, especially if that becomes a common problem.

So are you agreeing that too many cars are making things bad for business? If a place only has scope for a finite amount of parking and all those spaces are always full what is the solution other than trying to attract business from people not arriving by car?

No, quite the opposite. They are losing customers because of inadequate parking facilities. Pretty obvious reallly.

But if they can't fit any more parking into a place that is constrained (for the reasons Brian explained) what are they supposed to do? In the case cited, there was parking but some entitled person didn't want to have to pay to use it despite having spent money on fuel driving somewhere purely to get a cup of coffee. It's like the people I see who complain they drove to walk up Pen-y-Fan but couldn't find anywhere to park because it was too busy. I think the term is fuckwits.

Another car park not too far away? Don't care that much as I'll never go there.

It's surrounded on all sides by two rivers and a motorway. There's no unused land. You'd probably call it overcrowded 😁

Closest place you could conceivably build a car park is about a 25 minute walk away.

If there as many car parks as FA says, then it sounds like there's no actual shortage of parking if people are prepared to park and walk a bit. That's what I do round my neck of the woods, even though there is plenty of parking for the car using majority

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Not sure how happy the coffee shop owner is with that, especially if that becomes a common problem.

So are you agreeing that too many cars are making things bad for business? If a place only has scope for a finite amount of parking and all those spaces are always full what is the solution other than trying to attract business from people not arriving by car?

No, quite the opposite. They are losing customers because of inadequate parking facilities. Pretty obvious reallly.

But if they can't fit any more parking into a place that is constrained (for the reasons Brian explained) what are they supposed to do? In the case cited, there was parking but some entitled person didn't want to have to pay to use it despite having spent money on fuel driving somewhere purely to get a cup of coffee. It's like the people I see who complain they drove to walk up Pen-y-Fan but couldn't find anywhere to park because it was too busy. I think the term is fuckwits.

Another car park not too far away? Don't care that much as I'll never go there.

It's surrounded on all sides by two rivers and a motorway. There's no unused land. You'd probably call it overcrowded 😁

Closest place you could conceivably build a car park is about a 25 minute walk away.

If there as many car parks as FA says, then it sounds like there's no actual shortage of parking if people are prepared to park and walk a bit. That's what I do round my neck of the woods, even though there is plenty of parking for the car using majority

I'm not sure which car parks FA found, but by my reckoning, total capacity (apart from the rugby club) is about 100 in winter, and about 150 in summer. Not sure what the capacity is at Darts Farm, and though I'm not sure what the rules are there for parking if not shopping there, it's a nice walk from there (though then you'd probably just get your coffee and shop at Darts Farm). I'm not sure even where one could 'conceivably' build a car park within a 25 minute walk. Pretty sure all the viable green spaces are being earmarked by EDDC for development.

Really, if people want to come to Topsham itself, car is the worst way, and it will remain so. Any land left is going to housing now, which will only worsen travel into Exeter (not least as Exmouth is expanding massively too), until people change habits.