The uphill Struggle
Comments
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Depends on how many repeats and recovery time between repeats.ugo.santalucia said:I am doing some VO2 max interval sessions, but they seem a bit too easy… 110% of FTP for 15/30/60 seconds is not particularly taxing… I otherwise like the session, so I cranked up the FTP by 5% and it feels a bit more appropriate… think I’ll crank it another notch, maybe another 2% to make it into a proper hard session… anyone else finds these VO2 max sessions a bit bland?
https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/less-than-60-minutes-to-burn/the-wringer (30secs on, reducing recovery time per interval) ~2.05 x ftp is a killer workout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBgAr7kLsZY
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2020 Voodoo Marasa
2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
2016 Voodoo Wazoo0 -
What are the rest intervals? Short VO2 efforts are taxing if there are enough of them and the recoveries are short and it keeps your HR elevated so each subsequent effort pings your HR into the zone. I generally try to monitor HR rather than power.ugo.santalucia said:I am doing some VO2 max interval sessions, but they seem a bit too easy… 110% of FTP for 15/30/60 seconds is not particularly taxing… I otherwise like the session, so I cranked up the FTP by 5% and it feels a bit more appropriate… think I’ll crank it another notch, maybe another 2% to make it into a proper hard session… anyone else finds these VO2 max sessions a bit bland?
I’m like MG, and prefer 5 min or more efforts. The classic is 4x5:3 ‘S and I usually work through these over a season bringing the repeats up and recoveries down ending up with 8x5:1’s when on form. They’ll be done at 110%0 -
The sessions are 3 x 6 minute long. The first is 12 reps of 15/15 seconds, the second is 6 reps of 30/30 and the last one is 3 reps of 60/60. The recovery leg is 65% of FTP, so quite benign.
Once I pump up the FTP setting, it goes from 110/65 to 118/70 of FTP which is more like it…left the forum March 20230 -
30 sec at 205% reps sound brutal… I have done 1 minute at just over that in a race (was 580W, not sure what the FTP was at the time, maybe 270 or so) but couldn’t do it twiceleft the forum March 20230
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I managed to create my own workout, how very awesome that one can do that…left the forum March 20230
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Quite pleased with this VO2 max session I designed myself, the right level of hard, judging by the cadence on the last long interval…
https://www.strava.com/activities/8394658745/analysisleft the forum March 20230 -
My poshest start number to date…
https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/race-entrant-list/24745#anchorleft the forum March 20230 -
Number 213 is someone I used to see/ climb with down the wall in Hull. I bought my home climbing wall off him.
Small world.0 -
No Tom Bell this year?
Saw that Feather is riding a custom modded Cannondale supersix evo with discs. His Instagram shows it weighing in at 5.79KG!!0 -
No, Tom is seeking other challenges... might be back next year... or not... BUT Ed Laverack is in mighty form and on paper he is the one to beat.MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:No Tom Bell this year?
Saw that Feather is riding a custom modded Cannondale supersix evo with discs. His Instagram shows it weighing in at 5.79KG!!
I talked to Andy on Sunday at the Stratford Open... he has to ride the new Evo Disc, but he is not totally sold on it... I think he still prefers the older rim braked Supersix...left the forum March 20231 -
That's a shame, but seeking out a new challenge is understandable I guess. I was watching the latest Francis Cade video on Youtube and he is friends with Ed Laverack and Cade said he will be the favourite. He had a voice message of Ed saying he thinks he can hold around 435 watts for a 10-12 minute effort which is well over 7w/kg for him.
Interesting, I know most of us have been involved in the rim vs disc debate at some point. One of my major reasons for sticking with rims is the way the bike feels on climbs. For me, a DB wheels just feels sluggish and I get constant brake rub out the saddle. I can understand where he is coming from.0 -
I suppose for hill climbing there would be no problem with building disc wheels with less spokes and also setting brake pads super far apart.MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:That's a shame, but seeking out a new challenge is understandable I guess. I was watching the latest Francis Cade video on Youtube and he is friends with Ed Laverack and Cade said he will be the favourite. He had a voice message of Ed saying he thinks he can hold around 435 watts for a 10-12 minute effort which is well over 7w/kg for him.
Interesting, I know most of us have been involved in the rim vs disc debate at some point. One of my major reasons for sticking with rims is the way the bike feels on climbs. For me, a DB wheels just feels sluggish and I get constant brake rub out the saddle. I can understand where he is coming from.0 -
ugo.santalucia said:
No, Tom is seeking other challenges... might be back next year... or not... BUT Ed Laverack is in mighty form and on paper he is the one to beat.MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:No Tom Bell this year?
Saw that Feather is riding a custom modded Cannondale supersix evo with discs. His Instagram shows it weighing in at 5.79KG!!
I talked to Andy on Sunday at the Stratford Open... he has to ride the new Evo Disc, but he is not totally sold on it... I think he still prefers the older rim braked Supersix...
Andrew Feather is on the Lab71 I think?
It's funny cos whenever I've seen him interviewed about his bikes he's always struck me as never being totally sold on discs no matter what is coming out of his mouth.
Ed is in superb form though & watching his YT videos his preparation seems to have been spot on.0 -
Going down to the very basics, rim brakes were designed (as opposed to hub brakes) to work, never ideal, but ultimately they allow for light and fast bicycle construction... disc brakes were designed to be best at braking, so the compromise has to be somewhere else. If your cycling discipline does not require braking, then you will always be better off with rim brakes. Only the two top guys are on disc brakes, essentially because they are sponsored and they have to ride what they are given.ibr17xvii said:ugo.santalucia said:
No, Tom is seeking other challenges... might be back next year... or not... BUT Ed Laverack is in mighty form and on paper he is the one to beat.MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:No Tom Bell this year?
Saw that Feather is riding a custom modded Cannondale supersix evo with discs. His Instagram shows it weighing in at 5.79KG!!
I talked to Andy on Sunday at the Stratford Open... he has to ride the new Evo Disc, but he is not totally sold on it... I think he still prefers the older rim braked Supersix...
Andrew Feather is on the Lab71 I think?
It's funny cos whenever I've seen him interviewed about his bikes he's always struck me as never being totally sold on discs no matter what is coming out of his mouth.
Ed is in superb form though & watching his YT videos his preparation seems to have been spot on.left the forum March 20231 -
In other news, my itch to race the National on a Brompton has been squashed... I can't quite get a low enough gear (I need about 33 inches), not even fitting a 38T chainring... and if I do, then I am bound to spin like an idiot in the flat/downhill section, as it is a single speed... shame, could have been fun if the weather is awfulleft the forum March 20230
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in Ambleside… the road got steeper since last timeleft the forum March 20230
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How did it go Ugo, looks as though you were in the top half of the field?
AF smashed everyone again. Him and Ed were on a different planet by the looks of it, over a minute between them and 3rd spot!0 -
top half? Ha ha… these days you need to be a god to make the top 100… I was hoping for top 200, but did not happen… 217th out of 275. Not a great result, but steep hills at 20% are not ideal for the over 50… power was OK 4.3W/kg for over 18 minutes is not far off what I was hoping for…
Next year… Prospect hill is 7.5% average, maxes out at 11%, so much more suited to meleft the forum March 20230 -
Sorry, I was skim reading the classification, for some reason I had it in my head it was 475 entrants! Even so, just getting to the nationals puts you in a pretty select group, it's a notable achievement in my book.
Yeah, I have been up the struggle, anything where you are touching 20% is a tough prospect. Prospect at max 11% is definitely a less daunting proposition.1 -
450 in total, but the men’s race is 280, 275 on the day… I would have been 25th in the women race
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Anyway, if one wants to be picky, I got the pacing all wrong... first six minutes I went at the same pace as the race I did the previous week, except that was only 8 minutes long... after 12 minutes I was still averaging 300W, but dropping, the last steep pitch I had nothing, but a stitch... I was hoping for a 350W burst, but I managed 300W and I probably did quite well at finding those watts somewhere.
https://www.strava.com/activities/10124325347
The face of nothing... (courtesy of Ellen Isherwood)
left the forum March 20233 -
Interesting Ugo. Are you ever tempted to pace by HR? I use power but on a climb with lots of variations in gradient, my power would be up and down and hard to keep consistent. With HR, I know what my average limit for 15+ minutes of cycling would be and could probably keep the effort within +/- 5bpm. Whatever power I delivered within that effort I know would be my best.
Would be interesting to know how those without a PM are pacing, guessing most are HR or just on feel.0 -
Lately, I have ditched power as a way to pace, I have used live Strava segments, which have worked quite well on a couple of occasions, giving me course PBs... Sunday I had made 2 segments, one for the first steep 6 minutes, then another one for the top pitch. I was going so well at the bottom (28 seconds better than my PB) that I thought I was on a good day... except I paid later... oh well.
I think HR in a race would be something extra to worry about... and to be fair, I prefer shorter hills, where you go hard all the way.left the forum March 20230 -
MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:
How did it go Ugo, looks as though you were in the top half of the field?
AF smashed everyone again. Him and Ed were on a different planet by the looks of it, over a minute between them and 3rd spot!
On a climb that supposedly didn’t suit him Feather’s performance was frankly unbelievable. His build up didn’t seem the best as he was saying himself he felt off the pace. Unless that was just mind games, who knows?
Ed was super disappointed not to take the win but he did all he could posting his best numbers of his whole career.0 -
Is there such a thing as a climb that doesn't suit Andy Feather? He is head and shoulders above the rest and Ed did a fantastic job to get so close.
We are talking over 7 W/kg for 12 minutes, which is very close to Pogacar and Vingegaard's numbers. Had those two been there, I reckon they would have taken the top two spots on the podium, but by very small margins.left the forum March 20232 -
Judging by some moronic comments on various YouTube channels, you'd think AF had come from nowhere and surprised everyone.
To say Ed was disappointed is an understatement. His Strava comments afterwards probably didn't help either.1 -
As Ugo says, AF is pretty much suited to any climb. I think there is a GCN vid where he does AdH on Zwift and is quicker than the real life KOM and averages over 400w for the whole climb (I remember seeing that his V02 is also the highest the high performance sports centre down at Bath Uni has ever recorded).
I think he is one of those people that is genetically predisposed to riding up hills and obviously puts in the hours to maximise that potential.
I did notice Ed's Strava comments, and I think he perhaps toned them down a bit after a few hours as they had the potential to be misconstrued somewhat.0 -
I met with Andy the week before at the Stratford open, where he equalled his PB on the climb... except the previous time there was a tailwind and it was at least 10 degrees warmer... I was down about 20 seconds. He did 500W for 5 and a half minutes, which is exactly the same power per time figure he did at the National in 2022, so he clearly was at the top of his form. He was complaining about the bike, but clearly the bike did not stop him.
Ed is young and like most young people he talked before thinking. Second is his second best result in a career and he can be very proud of that... you win some you lose some. Andy is 10 years older and will eventually fade, Ed has still many good years ahead.
With respect to the climb... in my opinion a good choice for photos, but not a good choice for a Hill Climb championship... too long and too hard for most of the climber in the scene. three quarters of the HC races in the calendar are under 4 minutes for the winner... this was dramatically different.
Anecdotally, AF could have stopped for a wee and still finish in the top 10.left the forum March 20231 -
AF is a Solicitor isn't he? I'd be interested to know if his colleagues know about his cycling achievements or are completely oblivious (he strikes me as someone who would not boast about the fact).
"good weekend Andy?"
"Yeah, just went out for a bike ride" 2 -
ugo.santalucia said:
Is there such a thing as a climb that doesn't suit Andy Feather? He is head and shoulders above the rest and Ed did a fantastic job to get so close.
We are talking over 7 W/kg for 12 minutes, which is very close to Pogacar and Vingegaard's numbers. Had those two been there, I reckon they would have taken the top two spots on the podium, but by very small margins.
Most folk thought (myself included) that the longer climb would favour Ed & wasn’t particularly suited to AF which to be fair to him he completely blew out of the water.0
