TDF 2022:- Stage 17: Saint Gaudens - Peyragudes 129.7km ***Spoilers***

josame

Of the two hypothesis
a) JV are master tacticians
b) Pog made a rookie error and bonked

I’m def in the b camp

Still we have a fairly equal rivalry which may prove interesting for the rest of the decade

r0bh

Difficult to know really, he definitely had a lethal final kick in 2018, but that might have been because the level up to that point had been lower. Rather than him being at a higher level then than he is now

rick_chasey

Thomas is a more complete road rider than Wiggins 😈

No_Ta_Doctor

josame said:

Of the two hypothesis
a) JV are master tacticians
b) Pog made a rookie error and bonked

I’m def in the b camp

JV put him in the position to make that error. They also exploited his "mythology" and psychology, how could he resist getting into that fight? He's the new Cannibal, he wants to take on all comers and beat them, he wouldn't be Pogacar if he raced conservatively.

Quite funny that you describe it as a mistake, when you've been complaining Vingegaard is too robotic and boring though.

josame

Quite funny that you describe it as a mistake, when you've been complaining Vingegaard is too robotic and boring though.

hey to err is human - to not err is robotic

blazing_saddles

No_Ta_Doctor said:

blazing_saddles said:

Pross said:

andyp said:

Pross said:

phreak said:

Pross said:

On point 3 globalisation has surely helped. 30 years ago how many members of the pro peloton came from outside of Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain and Italy? Since then we haven't seen a French, Belgian or Dutch winner at the Tour.

The other thing to remember is that Thomas is still in third place and was in touching distance of Pog until today when most people had ruled him out as a podium rider so there isn't as big a gulf as people like to suggest.

Thomas said today that he's not in the same league as Pogacar and Vindegaard, and is just riding for the podium. In reality that has always been the case, and indeed, he said that he was nearly cracked by Berg early on but managed to just about hang on.

And yet he was within realistic touching distance of Pog at the start of the day.

The point I was making is that most on here would have said Thomas was beyond his best (and some have previously said he was the worst ever Tour winner) yet he's within 5 minutes which I suspect is a fairly normal gap for third place by this stage of a Tour.

Yet here he is, about to complete the set of Tour podium places.

Yep, not my argument but it was certainly argued by some on here in the past. On his 2018 form I think he'd be right up there with the other two.

I hope you both are right.
Being the eternal pessimist, I worry that he might run out of gas and crack big time.
In the back of my mind I have that 2015 edition, when he was 4th going into the final mountain stages. I worry about his recuperation

Still, he's much older and wiser, I am sure he'll have factored today in and measured his effort.

Wasn't that when Bardet (?) took him out on a descent and he lost his Jawbones and a couple of minutes? Don't think that was a crack

* I might be very wrong here*

Well, you are wrong, but only just.
Right nationality, right initial, but it was Warren Barguil who put him into the telegraph pole on the descent into Gap.

*That was another scorchio tour.

mrb123

rick_chasey said:

Thomas is a more complete road rider than Wiggins 😈

I reckon without that stage being shortened he may have won the Tour that Bernal won.

He could well have won a Giro or two as well without the crashes. The year he got taken out by the motorbike he was in great shape.