English history.

Dorset_Boy

Pross said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think English history is really badly taught at schools.

I managed to go all the way through the English system and get a degree in history and not once did I ever do the English civil war or any Cromwell.

I guess by its very nature it is just a massive subject so very hard to cover in depth unless focussing on certain periods. As mentioned above I covered the Industrial Revolution in a fair bit of depth at GCSE along with the history of crime and punishment in Britain (the Rise of Communist China was the final element).

But what happened in the 1,000 years between the Romans leaving and the Normans turning up in Hastings. Then it goes quiet for 400 years until the Henrys makes an appearance. Then 200 years disappear before Wellington/Nelson and Napoleon liven things up. Then nothing for 100 years until Archduke Ferdinand gets unlucky.

Ask 10 degree educated Brits when the American civil war was and 9 won’t get within 50 years.

And then for a laugh ask them when the Boer War was

Really? I knew the American Civil War was mid 19th century (not the exact dates) and that the Boer war was turn of the 20th century.

I'm no historian but have read Bernard Cornwell's Starbuck Chronicles so possibly recall the approximate dates from those. The Boer War I guess I remember from my days in the scouts due to Baden-Powell and all that.

Surely anyone of 'a certain age' knows the rough dates of the Boer War due to Corporal Jones in Dads Army?

surrey_commuter

To put periods of history into context, Custer fought in the civil war, met his end when enthusiastically pursuing the genocide of the Native American Indians and his widow died in 1933.

Only 46 years later Maggie became PM and yet that is only 42 years ago

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think English history is really badly taught at schools.

I managed to go all the way through the English system and get a degree in history and not once did I ever do the English civil war or any Cromwell.

I guess by its very nature it is just a massive subject so very hard to cover in depth unless focussing on certain periods. As mentioned above I covered the Industrial Revolution in a fair bit of depth at GCSE along with the history of crime and punishment in Britain (the Rise of Communist China was the final element).

But what happened in the 1,000 years between the Romans leaving and the Normans turning up in Hastings. Then it goes quiet for 400 years until the Henrys makes an appearance. Then 200 years disappear before Wellington/Nelson and Napoleon liven things up. Then nothing for 100 years until Archduke Ferdinand gets unlucky.

Ask 10 degree educated Brits when the American civil war was and 9 won’t get within 50 years.

And then for a laugh ask them when the Boer War was

Really? I knew the American Civil War was mid 19th century (not the exact dates) and that the Boer war was turn of the 20th century.

I'm no historian but have read Bernard Cornwell's Starbuck Chronicles so possibly recall the approximate dates from those. The Boer War I guess I remember from my days in the scouts due to Baden-Powell and all that.

Maybe I mix with thickos but I think you will be surprised. Try asking your wife and kids.

BTW mid nineteenth century counts as being correct. Though if it is TBB I would want the names of two generals on each side.

I guessed 1875 and 1890, so 10 years or so out on both.

I can name two generals in total across history. Neither of them were in the American civil war.

DeVlaeminck

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think English history is really badly taught at schools.

I managed to go all the way through the English system and get a degree in history and not once did I ever do the English civil war or any Cromwell.

I guess by its very nature it is just a massive subject so very hard to cover in depth unless focussing on certain periods. As mentioned above I covered the Industrial Revolution in a fair bit of depth at GCSE along with the history of crime and punishment in Britain (the Rise of Communist China was the final element).

But what happened in the 1,000 years between the Romans leaving and the Normans turning up in Hastings. Then it goes quiet for 400 years until the Henrys makes an appearance. Then 200 years disappear before Wellington/Nelson and Napoleon liven things up. Then nothing for 100 years until Archduke Ferdinand gets unlucky.

Ask 10 degree educated Brits when the American civil war was and 9 won’t get within 50 years.

And then for a laugh ask them when the Boer War was

Pretty sure most would get within a couple of decades of the Boer war ... wouldn't they ?

kingstongraham

DeVlaeminck said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think English history is really badly taught at schools.

I managed to go all the way through the English system and get a degree in history and not once did I ever do the English civil war or any Cromwell.

I guess by its very nature it is just a massive subject so very hard to cover in depth unless focussing on certain periods. As mentioned above I covered the Industrial Revolution in a fair bit of depth at GCSE along with the history of crime and punishment in Britain (the Rise of Communist China was the final element).

But what happened in the 1,000 years between the Romans leaving and the Normans turning up in Hastings. Then it goes quiet for 400 years until the Henrys makes an appearance. Then 200 years disappear before Wellington/Nelson and Napoleon liven things up. Then nothing for 100 years until Archduke Ferdinand gets unlucky.

Ask 10 degree educated Brits when the American civil war was and 9 won’t get within 50 years.

And then for a laugh ask them when the Boer War was

Pretty sure most would get within a couple of decades of the Boer war ... wouldn't they ?

I'd only guess from the way Michael Caine is dressed.

ddraver

In my head it's turn of the century...but I wouldnt be 100% sure which century 😶

Pross

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think English history is really badly taught at schools.

I managed to go all the way through the English system and get a degree in history and not once did I ever do the English civil war or any Cromwell.

I guess by its very nature it is just a massive subject so very hard to cover in depth unless focussing on certain periods. As mentioned above I covered the Industrial Revolution in a fair bit of depth at GCSE along with the history of crime and punishment in Britain (the Rise of Communist China was the final element).

But what happened in the 1,000 years between the Romans leaving and the Normans turning up in Hastings. Then it goes quiet for 400 years until the Henrys makes an appearance. Then 200 years disappear before Wellington/Nelson and Napoleon liven things up. Then nothing for 100 years until Archduke Ferdinand gets unlucky.

Ask 10 degree educated Brits when the American civil war was and 9 won’t get within 50 years.

And then for a laugh ask them when the Boer War was

Really? I knew the American Civil War was mid 19th century (not the exact dates) and that the Boer war was turn of the 20th century.

I'm no historian but have read Bernard Cornwell's Starbuck Chronicles so possibly recall the approximate dates from those. The Boer War I guess I remember from my days in the scouts due to Baden-Powell and all that.

Maybe I mix with thickos but I think you will be surprised. Try asking your wife and kids.

BTW mid nineteenth century counts as being correct. Though if it is TBB I would want the names of two generals on each side.

I guessed 1875 and 1890, so 10 years or so out on both.

I can name two generals in total across history. Neither of them were in the American civil war.

Jackson and Lee were probably the most famous for the South (think Stonewall and Dukes of Hazard). Grant and Sherman for the North.

Again, Bernard Cornwell is my source of reference for history though!

Jezyboy

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think English history is really badly taught at schools.

I managed to go all the way through the English system and get a degree in history and not once did I ever do the English civil war or any Cromwell.

I guess by its very nature it is just a massive subject so very hard to cover in depth unless focussing on certain periods. As mentioned above I covered the Industrial Revolution in a fair bit of depth at GCSE along with the history of crime and punishment in Britain (the Rise of Communist China was the final element).

But what happened in the 1,000 years between the Romans leaving and the Normans turning up in Hastings. Then it goes quiet for 400 years until the Henrys makes an appearance. Then 200 years disappear before Wellington/Nelson and Napoleon liven things up. Then nothing for 100 years until Archduke Ferdinand gets unlucky.

Ask 10 degree educated Brits when the American civil war was and 9 won’t get within 50 years.

And then for a laugh ask them when the Boer War was

I'd ask them what colour the Boers were.

surrey_commuter

kingstongraham said:

DeVlaeminck said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think English history is really badly taught at schools.

I managed to go all the way through the English system and get a degree in history and not once did I ever do the English civil war or any Cromwell.

I guess by its very nature it is just a massive subject so very hard to cover in depth unless focussing on certain periods. As mentioned above I covered the Industrial Revolution in a fair bit of depth at GCSE along with the history of crime and punishment in Britain (the Rise of Communist China was the final element).

But what happened in the 1,000 years between the Romans leaving and the Normans turning up in Hastings. Then it goes quiet for 400 years until the Henrys makes an appearance. Then 200 years disappear before Wellington/Nelson and Napoleon liven things up. Then nothing for 100 years until Archduke Ferdinand gets unlucky.

Ask 10 degree educated Brits when the American civil war was and 9 won’t get within 50 years.

And then for a laugh ask them when the Boer War was

Pretty sure most would get within a couple of decades of the Boer war ... wouldn't they ?

I'd only guess from the way Michael Caine is dressed.

Chapeau

lesfirth

ddraver said:

I'm so old, I remember when Horrible Histories were books...

*sigh*

I am so old that I remember some of what is now history being on the news in black and white.

pblakeney

I am so old that I remember a 14" B&W TV costing me a month's take home.
Kids these days.... Yup, now officially Victor Meldrew.

dennisn

rjsterry said:

ddraver said:

Henry - historical Homer Simpson with an unhealthy wedding habit. Also Greensleeves

Cromwell - controversial, very mean to the Irish. Parliament. That looong film with young Dumbledore

Anne - weirdo Catholic, burned a lot of protestants

😆

veronese68 said:

This is what I know from going to school in England. Henry had 6 wives, divorced 2 but had to create his own church for the second. Lopped the heads off another 2 of them. Another one snuffed it of natural causes and the last one outlived him. I only remember that becasue of a rhyme. Cromwell was called Oliver, I've heard of Anne.
Kids know much more from watching Horrible Histories when they were little.

Wrong Cromwell. Distantly related, though.

Mantel's a good read, but it's a novel not a biography.

First book (Wolf Hall) was a tough read. Lots and lots of character's I'd never heard of. Bring up the Bodies was better for fewer cast members and the first book introduced most of them. I realize it was historical fiction but good reading nonetheless and an interesting look at the times.

womack

At what point in English history did men bumming each other become acceptable?

morstar

womack said:

At what point in English history did men bumming each other become acceptable?

You’ll find it’s been happening a very long time.

We’ve simply moved to a point where we no longer pretend it doesn’t.

I find it has very little impact on my day to day existence so don’t let it bother me.

womack

morstar said:

womack said:

At what point in English history did men bumming each other become acceptable?

You’ll find it’s been happening a very long time.

We’ve simply moved to a point where we no longer pretend it doesn’t.

I find it has very little impact on my day to day existence so don’t let it bother me.

Not correct though, is it?

Jezyboy

The poster doth protest too much?

veronese68

womack said:

morstar said:

womack said:

At what point in English history did men bumming each other become acceptable?

You’ll find it’s been happening a very long time.

We’ve simply moved to a point where we no longer pretend it doesn’t.

I find it has very little impact on my day to day existence so don’t let it bother me.

Not correct though, is it?

Don't do it myself but it's gone on for millennia, moaning about it on a thread about history is a little odd. Is there something you want to share with the group?

womack

veronese68 said:

womack said:

morstar said:

womack said:

At what point in English history did men bumming each other become acceptable?

You’ll find it’s been happening a very long time.

We’ve simply moved to a point where we no longer pretend it doesn’t.

I find it has very little impact on my day to day existence so don’t let it bother me.

Not correct though, is it?

Don't do it myself but it's gone on for millennia, moaning about it on a thread about history is a little odd. Is there something you want to share with the group?

Not really, I just miss Frank Wilson's forthright views and find it depressing that history has now deemed it that someone with a different point of view to the norm is nowadays airbrushed out.

ddraver

Was Frank Wilson gay then..?

morstar

womack said:

veronese68 said:

womack said:

morstar said:

womack said:

At what point in English history did men bumming each other become acceptable?

You’ll find it’s been happening a very long time.

We’ve simply moved to a point where we no longer pretend it doesn’t.

I find it has very little impact on my day to day existence so don’t let it bother me.

Not correct though, is it?

Don't do it myself but it's gone on for millennia, moaning about it on a thread about history is a little odd. Is there something you want to share with the group?

Not really, I just miss Frank Wilson's forthright views and find it depressing that history has now deemed it that someone with a different point of view to the norm is nowadays airbrushed out.

What's the point in having a forthright view on something that has absolutely no impact on anybody other than the participants.

mrb123

womack said:

veronese68 said:

womack said:

morstar said:

womack said:

At what point in English history did men bumming each other become acceptable?

You’ll find it’s been happening a very long time.

We’ve simply moved to a point where we no longer pretend it doesn’t.

I find it has very little impact on my day to day existence so don’t let it bother me.

Not correct though, is it?

Don't do it myself but it's gone on for millennia, moaning about it on a thread about history is a little odd. Is there something you want to share with the group?

Not really, I just miss Frank Wilson's forthright views and find it depressing that history has now deemed it that someone with a different point of view to the norm is nowadays airbrushed out.

You should get yourself over to Afghanistan, where you'll find your point of view will be very much becoming the norm.

Pross

womack said:

veronese68 said:

womack said:

morstar said:

womack said:

At what point in English history did men bumming each other become acceptable?

You’ll find it’s been happening a very long time.

We’ve simply moved to a point where we no longer pretend it doesn’t.

I find it has very little impact on my day to day existence so don’t let it bother me.

Not correct though, is it?

Don't do it myself but it's gone on for millennia, moaning about it on a thread about history is a little odd. Is there something you want to share with the group?

Not really, I just miss Frank Wilson's forthright views and find it depressing that history has now deemed it that someone with a different point of view to the norm is nowadays airbrushed out.

Good to see you back Frank, I did wonder when you were talking about the Welsh language and Welsh history.

rjsterry

womack said:

morstar said:

womack said:

At what point in English history did men bumming each other become acceptable?

You’ll find it’s been happening a very long time.

We’ve simply moved to a point where we no longer pretend it doesn’t.

I find it has very little impact on my day to day existence so don’t let it bother me.

Not correct though, is it?

Seeing as this is the history thread, most of the last thousand years or so would agree with you. It's only not been illegal for the last 54 years. As it happens Henry VIII brought in an Act making it a capital offence that was only repealed in 1861. Just your tough luck to be born during the one period where most people don't have a problem with it, I suppose.

DeVlaeminck

kingstongraham said:

DeVlaeminck said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think English history is really badly taught at schools.

I managed to go all the way through the English system and get a degree in history and not once did I ever do the English civil war or any Cromwell.

I guess by its very nature it is just a massive subject so very hard to cover in depth unless focussing on certain periods. As mentioned above I covered the Industrial Revolution in a fair bit of depth at GCSE along with the history of crime and punishment in Britain (the Rise of Communist China was the final element).

But what happened in the 1,000 years between the Romans leaving and the Normans turning up in Hastings. Then it goes quiet for 400 years until the Henrys makes an appearance. Then 200 years disappear before Wellington/Nelson and Napoleon liven things up. Then nothing for 100 years until Archduke Ferdinand gets unlucky.

Ask 10 degree educated Brits when the American civil war was and 9 won’t get within 50 years.

And then for a laugh ask them when the Boer War was

Pretty sure most would get within a couple of decades of the Boer war ... wouldn't they ?

I'd only guess from the way Michael Caine is dressed.

I'd have thought the young Churchill being there would be fairly well known.

DeVlaeminck

womack said:

morstar said:

womack said:

At what point in English history did men bumming each other become acceptable?

You’ll find it’s been happening a very long time.

We’ve simply moved to a point where we no longer pretend it doesn’t.

I find it has very little impact on my day to day existence so don’t let it bother me.

Not correct though, is it?

Correct? Odd choice of word.

I can't really see why you'd care if it's between two consenting adults.

surrey_commuter

DeVlaeminck said:

kingstongraham said:

DeVlaeminck said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think English history is really badly taught at schools.

I managed to go all the way through the English system and get a degree in history and not once did I ever do the English civil war or any Cromwell.

I guess by its very nature it is just a massive subject so very hard to cover in depth unless focussing on certain periods. As mentioned above I covered the Industrial Revolution in a fair bit of depth at GCSE along with the history of crime and punishment in Britain (the Rise of Communist China was the final element).

But what happened in the 1,000 years between the Romans leaving and the Normans turning up in Hastings. Then it goes quiet for 400 years until the Henrys makes an appearance. Then 200 years disappear before Wellington/Nelson and Napoleon liven things up. Then nothing for 100 years until Archduke Ferdinand gets unlucky.

Ask 10 degree educated Brits when the American civil war was and 9 won’t get within 50 years.

And then for a laugh ask them when the Boer War was

Pretty sure most would get within a couple of decades of the Boer war ... wouldn't they ?

I'd only guess from the way Michael Caine is dressed.

I'd have thought the young Churchill being there would be fairly well known.

Bizarrely he would have been 5 years old for the real thing and died the year after the film was released

kingstongraham

DeVlaeminck said:

kingstongraham said:

DeVlaeminck said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think English history is really badly taught at schools.

I managed to go all the way through the English system and get a degree in history and not once did I ever do the English civil war or any Cromwell.

I guess by its very nature it is just a massive subject so very hard to cover in depth unless focussing on certain periods. As mentioned above I covered the Industrial Revolution in a fair bit of depth at GCSE along with the history of crime and punishment in Britain (the Rise of Communist China was the final element).

But what happened in the 1,000 years between the Romans leaving and the Normans turning up in Hastings. Then it goes quiet for 400 years until the Henrys makes an appearance. Then 200 years disappear before Wellington/Nelson and Napoleon liven things up. Then nothing for 100 years until Archduke Ferdinand gets unlucky.

Ask 10 degree educated Brits when the American civil war was and 9 won’t get within 50 years.

And then for a laugh ask them when the Boer War was

Pretty sure most would get within a couple of decades of the Boer war ... wouldn't they ?

I'd only guess from the way Michael Caine is dressed.

I'd have thought the young Churchill being there would be fairly well known.

It may be, but I don't know anything about it.

capt_slog

Pross said:

womack said:

veronese68 said:

womack said:

morstar said:

womack said:

At what point in English history did men bumming each other become acceptable?

You’ll find it’s been happening a very long time.

We’ve simply moved to a point where we no longer pretend it doesn’t.

I find it has very little impact on my day to day existence so don’t let it bother me.

Not correct though, is it?

Don't do it myself but it's gone on for millennia, moaning about it on a thread about history is a little odd. Is there something you want to share with the group?

Not really, I just miss Frank Wilson's forthright views and find it depressing that history has now deemed it that someone with a different point of view to the norm is nowadays airbrushed out.

Good to see you back Frank, I did wonder when you were talking about the Welsh language and Welsh history.

That and the reference to "bumming".

DeVlaeminck

surrey_commuter said:

DeVlaeminck said:

kingstongraham said:

DeVlaeminck said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think English history is really badly taught at schools.

I managed to go all the way through the English system and get a degree in history and not once did I ever do the English civil war or any Cromwell.

I guess by its very nature it is just a massive subject so very hard to cover in depth unless focussing on certain periods. As mentioned above I covered the Industrial Revolution in a fair bit of depth at GCSE along with the history of crime and punishment in Britain (the Rise of Communist China was the final element).

But what happened in the 1,000 years between the Romans leaving and the Normans turning up in Hastings. Then it goes quiet for 400 years until the Henrys makes an appearance. Then 200 years disappear before Wellington/Nelson and Napoleon liven things up. Then nothing for 100 years until Archduke Ferdinand gets unlucky.

Ask 10 degree educated Brits when the American civil war was and 9 won’t get within 50 years.

And then for a laugh ask them when the Boer War was

Pretty sure most would get within a couple of decades of the Boer war ... wouldn't they ?

I'd only guess from the way Michael Caine is dressed.

I'd have thought the young Churchill being there would be fairly well known.

Bizarrely he would have been 5 years old for the real thing and died the year after the film was released

Well it turns out the only thing I knew about it (other than who it was between) is wrong!

Apparently there were 2 Boer wars and Churchill's involvement was in the second which was about 20 years after the first.

Edit - or I might have been right - seems the first Boer war was far less of a war than the first. Any historians know if Boer War generally refers to the earlier or later ?

surrey_commuter

kingstongraham said:

DeVlaeminck said:

kingstongraham said:

DeVlaeminck said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think English history is really badly taught at schools.

I managed to go all the way through the English system and get a degree in history and not once did I ever do the English civil war or any Cromwell.

I guess by its very nature it is just a massive subject so very hard to cover in depth unless focussing on certain periods. As mentioned above I covered the Industrial Revolution in a fair bit of depth at GCSE along with the history of crime and punishment in Britain (the Rise of Communist China was the final element).

But what happened in the 1,000 years between the Romans leaving and the Normans turning up in Hastings. Then it goes quiet for 400 years until the Henrys makes an appearance. Then 200 years disappear before Wellington/Nelson and Napoleon liven things up. Then nothing for 100 years until Archduke Ferdinand gets unlucky.

Ask 10 degree educated Brits when the American civil war was and 9 won’t get within 50 years.

And then for a laugh ask them when the Boer War was

Pretty sure most would get within a couple of decades of the Boer war ... wouldn't they ?

I'd only guess from the way Michael Caine is dressed.

I'd have thought the young Churchill being there would be fairly well known.

It may be, but I don't know anything about it.

I thought you were kidding about Michael Caine, he was fighting the Zulus. In the Boer War we were fighting a bunch of Dutch farmers.