The Tax Thread

One half of the two certainties in life deserves its own thread.

Always a hot topic but now more than ever.

So Sunak is apparently considering a green tax on shopping deliveries.

I think this is an interesting move. Personally I prefer to go to a shop but actually think that one vehicle making multiple deliveries as part of one route is more environmentally friendly than each of those purchases requiring a unique trip to a shop.
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Comments

  • What Carrie wants, Carrie gets

    Rishi has to perform his dance on a pinhead to pretend to meet the extravagant socialist big state promises of his boss, fund Carrie’s pet projects and reassure the markets that he is not a complete tvvat.

    The outcome of which will be nothing substantial but lots of long term goals and objectives
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,824
    It would be interesting to see how he'd propose to differentiate between the Amazons of this world and the local greengrocer delivering to all the elderly customers in the neighbourhood.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,427
    morstar said:

    One half of the two certainties in life deserves its own thread.

    Always a hot topic but now more than ever.

    So Sunak is apparently considering a green tax on shopping deliveries.

    I think this is an interesting move. Personally I prefer to go to a shop but actually think that one vehicle making multiple deliveries as part of one route is more environmentally friendly than each of those purchases requiring a unique trip to a shop.

    Seems a stupid move, especially when the service has possibly been a literal lif saver for some in the last 12 months. It should also be something where EVs or hydrogen vehicles will work well.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,615
    Its not a green tax. It is a tax, tarted up by some advisers to sound better.
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    I think the vehicles point is interesting.
    If it was tied in with incentives to use lower polluting vehicles, it at least had some green credentials.
    But if the advertising is to believed, Amazon are already down that route. Can’t see how they wouldn’t be really even if only at a trial level. Delivery is intrinsic to their entire existence and internal combustion has a quantifiable finite lifespan.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,377
    There will probably be a bit more to think about than this initiative when the budget is unveiled this week. I shall be taking a professional interest as usual.

    As usual it will be interesting to see what gets speculated about vs what is actually announced.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,590
    Corp tax increase + freezing of the income tax thresholds has been fairly heavily trailed, so it would be surprising if those weren't in there.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,377
    rjsterry said:

    Corp tax increase + freezing of the income tax thresholds has been fairly heavily trailed, so it would be surprising if those weren't in there.

    Some are more likely than others but there are always surprises, especially in the corporate stuff.

    Also the devil is often in the detail and we usually don't get the full implications until the accountancy firms have trawled through the Treasury releases.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Not sure why Labour would be against increased tax on those who managed to still be making a profit, when the tories seem in favour. Anyone?
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    They're making a conserted effort to appear pro-business, at a time when the Brexit Tories are appearing to be the part of f#ck business.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,377

    Not sure why Labour would be against increased tax on those who managed to still be making a profit, when the tories seem in favour. Anyone?

    It does seem a bit unusual but then again I only heard the soundbite.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,377
    edited February 2021
    elbowloh said:

    They're making a conserted effort to appear pro-business, at a time when the Brexit Tories are appearing to be the part of f#ck business.

    I think it would be better to see what's actually in the budget and comment on that.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • If they do reverse the corp tax cuts then that is a quite remarkable policy u turn.

    The previous argument was that it was too easy to avoid to be worth bothering with which meant Laffer applied if you made yourself relatively competitive, plus it gave a big lift to inward investment.

    If all of the above is true it would suggest that they don’t just want to fvck business but be seen to fvck business.

    I wonder if there is residual anger that 99% of them did not support Brexit?
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    edited February 2021
    Stevo_666 said:

    elbowloh said:

    They're making a conserted effort to appear pro-business, at a time when the Brexit Tories are appearing to be the part of f#ck business.

    I think it would be better to see what's actually in the budget and comment on that.
    Not just talking about the budget, but rather pretty much everything that's happened since Boris's f#ck business comment. Also, like I said, I was commenting on how things appear.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,377
    elbowloh said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    elbowloh said:

    They're making a conserted effort to appear pro-business, at a time when the Brexit Tories are appearing to be the part of f#ck business.

    I think it would be better to see what's actually in the budget and comment on that.
    Not just talking about the budget, but rather pretty much everything that's happened since Boris's f#ck business comment. Also, like I said, I was commenting on how things appear.
    OK, just not clear how it relates to the upcoming budget which is what this thread is about. We know you're not a fan.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,427
    rjsterry said:

    Corp tax increase + freezing of the income tax thresholds has been fairly heavily trailed, so it would be surprising if those weren't in there.

    Testing reaction. Plenty of time for a u turn.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,377

    If they do reverse the corp tax cuts then that is a quite remarkable policy u turn.

    The previous argument was that it was too easy to avoid to be worth bothering with which meant Laffer applied if you made yourself relatively competitive, plus it gave a big lift to inward investment.

    If all of the above is true it would suggest that they don’t just want to fvck business but be seen to fvck business.

    I wonder if there is residual anger that 99% of them did not support Brexit?

    Like I said, I'll be looking at the whole picture from a professional and more objective point of view - rather than your approach of deciding in advance that the budget is rubbish because you don't like them.

    On the tax competitiveness front, its definitely a factor which will also need to be looked at in the context of what other countries are doing. What are your thoughts on the proposed Biden tax rises, for example?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Stevo_666 said:

    elbowloh said:

    They're making a conserted effort to appear pro-business, at a time when the Brexit Tories are appearing to be the part of f#ck business.

    I think it would be better to see what's actually in the budget and comment on that.
    Can you let us know what time window we then have before it's pointless whingeing and crying over spilt milk?
  • It's fair, stevo has proved himself completely unbiased, so let's wait and see.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,377

    Stevo_666 said:

    elbowloh said:

    They're making a conserted effort to appear pro-business, at a time when the Brexit Tories are appearing to be the part of f#ck business.

    I think it would be better to see what's actually in the budget and comment on that.
    Can you let us know what time window we then have before it's pointless whingeing and crying over spilt milk?
    I'm not sure that cut and paste from the Brexit thread is the best approach for snidey comments Bomp.

    I'd be interested to hear what you think once we have the facts.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Stevo_666 said:

    elbowloh said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    elbowloh said:

    They're making a conserted effort to appear pro-business, at a time when the Brexit Tories are appearing to be the part of f#ck business.

    I think it would be better to see what's actually in the budget and comment on that.
    Not just talking about the budget, but rather pretty much everything that's happened since Boris's f#ck business comment. Also, like I said, I was commenting on how things appear.
    OK, just not clear how it relates to the upcoming budget which is what this thread is about. We know you're not a fan.
    I suggest you read the thread, and specifically the question that was posed about Labour's response, that I responded to.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,590
    Stevo_666 said:

    If they do reverse the corp tax cuts then that is a quite remarkable policy u turn.

    The previous argument was that it was too easy to avoid to be worth bothering with which meant Laffer applied if you made yourself relatively competitive, plus it gave a big lift to inward investment.

    If all of the above is true it would suggest that they don’t just want to fvck business but be seen to fvck business.

    I wonder if there is residual anger that 99% of them did not support Brexit?

    Like I said, I'll be looking at the whole picture from a professional and more objective point of view - rather than your approach of deciding in advance that the budget is rubbish because you don't like them.

    On the tax competitiveness front, its definitely a factor which will also need to be looked at in the context of what other countries are doing. What are your thoughts on the proposed Biden tax rises, for example?
    Little bit oversensitive there. Nobody has posted that they think the budget is rubbish. And the thread isn't just about the budget. Personally, I can't see a major problem with a point or two on the rate over 5 years. If your business is struggling anyway, then there won't be much CT to pay in the first place. I also think freezing the IT thresholds is fine. Not sure of the wisdom of fiddling with stamp duty and am unconvinced that it helps the people it claims to be aimed at.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • If your business is making profit in the UK, you've benefitted from the handouts. I can't see why Labour would think it beyond them to articulate that.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,377
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    If they do reverse the corp tax cuts then that is a quite remarkable policy u turn.

    The previous argument was that it was too easy to avoid to be worth bothering with which meant Laffer applied if you made yourself relatively competitive, plus it gave a big lift to inward investment.

    If all of the above is true it would suggest that they don’t just want to fvck business but be seen to fvck business.

    I wonder if there is residual anger that 99% of them did not support Brexit?

    Like I said, I'll be looking at the whole picture from a professional and more objective point of view - rather than your approach of deciding in advance that the budget is rubbish because you don't like them.

    On the tax competitiveness front, its definitely a factor which will also need to be looked at in the context of what other countries are doing. What are your thoughts on the proposed Biden tax rises, for example?
    Little bit oversensitive there. Nobody has posted that they think the budget is rubbish. And the thread isn't just about the budget. Personally, I can't see a major problem with a point or two on the rate over 5 years. If your business is struggling anyway, then there won't be much CT to pay in the first place. I also think freezing the IT thresholds is fine. Not sure of the wisdom of fiddling with stamp duty and am unconvinced that it helps the people it claims to be aimed at.
    Why do you think that?

    It doesn't take a genius to work out SC's angle based on his post and what we already know of his views about Boris and the government.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,499

    Not sure why Labour would be against increased tax on those who managed to still be making a profit, when the tories seem in favour. Anyone?

    See it as they’re signed up to MMT
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,499
    Stevo_666 said:

    If they do reverse the corp tax cuts then that is a quite remarkable policy u turn.

    The previous argument was that it was too easy to avoid to be worth bothering with which meant Laffer applied if you made yourself relatively competitive, plus it gave a big lift to inward investment.

    If all of the above is true it would suggest that they don’t just want to fvck business but be seen to fvck business.

    I wonder if there is residual anger that 99% of them did not support Brexit?

    Like I said, I'll be looking at the whole picture from a professional and more objective point of view - rather than your approach of deciding in advance that the budget is rubbish because you don't like them.

    On the tax competitiveness front, its definitely a factor which will also need to be looked at in the context of what other countries are doing. What are your thoughts on the proposed Biden tax rises, for example?
    Problem is Stevo it’s an economic issue not a tax and accounting one.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,499
    He’s mad to raise taxes so soon. Nutter behaviour.
  • He’s mad to raise taxes so soon. Nutter behaviour.

    When do you stop kicking the can though?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,499

    He’s mad to raise taxes so soon. Nutter behaviour.

    When do you stop kicking the can though?
    It’s macroeconomics. That’s not important.

    The amount spent on servicing debt is the lowest in 20 years. The economy has never seen such a big drop in 2 centuries.

    So why is he trying to take more heat out of the recovery?
  • He’s mad to raise taxes so soon. Nutter behaviour.

    When do you stop kicking the can though?
    It’s macroeconomics. That’s not important.

    The amount spent on servicing debt is the lowest in 20 years. The economy has never seen such a big drop in 2 centuries.

    So why is he trying to take more heat out of the recovery?
    It's the lowest now, but you have to agree we don't know the future and there is always potential for interest rates to rise. Didn't you quote 'Micheal Burry' recently with his prophesy of hyper inflation?