Things that have withstood the test of time

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  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674

    Yeah I think the German reaction to fukushima is highly irresponsible.

    Climate change is existential. Do you not understand that?

    FTR the number of deaths actually caused directly by nuclear energy at Fukushima is basically "possibly as high as one".
  • Pross said:

    Surely Fukushima just shows more thought possibly needs to go into the location of power stations and that putting them in earthquake / tsunami zones.

    You don't know what's going to happen. Did you predict the pandemic too?
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 2,907

    Pross said:

    Surely Fukushima just shows more thought possibly needs to go into the location of power stations and that putting them in earthquake / tsunami zones.

    You don't know what's going to happen. Did you predict the pandemic too?
    Wasn't a pandemic number one on the national risk register?
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,479

    Pross said:

    Surely Fukushima just shows more thought possibly needs to go into the location of power stations and that putting them in earthquake / tsunami zones.

    You don't know what's going to happen. Did you predict the pandemic too?
    Predicting earthquakes on geological faults with a history of earthquakes doesn't take Nostradamus. Sure, it was bigger than normal but the risk was known.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,859

    Yeah I think the German reaction to fukushima is highly irresponsible.

    Climate change is existential. Do you not understand that?

    FTR the number of deaths actually caused directly by nuclear energy at Fukushima is basically "possibly as high as one".

    Having just watched this documentary on the tsunami, it's actually quite stunning, at first glance, why this wasn't a full-scale nuclear disaster. I've no idea whether it was by design or by luck that worse didn't happen, when you see just how brutal the chain of events was. The earthquake alone is quite something.
  • Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Surely Fukushima just shows more thought possibly needs to go into the location of power stations and that putting them in earthquake / tsunami zones.

    You don't know what's going to happen. Did you predict the pandemic too?
    Predicting earthquakes on geological faults with a history of earthquakes doesn't take Nostradamus. Sure, it was bigger than normal but the risk was known.
    In 2014, the undiscounted decommissioning cost estimate for Sellafield was increased to £79.1 billion,[20] and by 2015 to £117.4 billion.[9] The annual operating cost will be £2 billion in 2016.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Decommissioning_Authority#:~:text=In 2014, the undiscounted decommissioning,£2 billion in 2016.

    What happened with Sellafield? After time radioactive waste got washed into the sea, as result of a lack of due care and due diligence. I've said already a couple of times now, I'm not against it, it just need explaining to the public, especially if you find out it's on your doorstep!
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,479

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Surely Fukushima just shows more thought possibly needs to go into the location of power stations and that putting them in earthquake / tsunami zones.

    You don't know what's going to happen. Did you predict the pandemic too?
    Predicting earthquakes on geological faults with a history of earthquakes doesn't take Nostradamus. Sure, it was bigger than normal but the risk was known.
    In 2014, the undiscounted decommissioning cost estimate for Sellafield was increased to £79.1 billion,[20] and by 2015 to £117.4 billion.[9] The annual operating cost will be £2 billion in 2016.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Decommissioning_Authority#:~:text=In 2014, the undiscounted decommissioning,£2 billion in 2016.

    What happened with Sellafield? After time radioactive waste got washed into the sea, as result of a lack of due care and due diligence. I've said already a couple of times now, I'm not against it, it just need explaining to the public, especially if you find out it's on your doorstep!
    This cannot be the case - those in the nuclear industry don't make mistakes as the industry is so well regulated and they are the only people competent at their jobs. I read that recently on this forum.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,585
    So Sellafield was started what, 70 years ago?

    It's a bit of a disaster and the cleanup is horrendously expensive - chucking tonnes and tonnes of highly radioactive waste into a bunch of swimming pools is not a clever way to handle it.

    Nuclear has obviously moved a bit on from reckless experiments in an attempt to keep up in the cold war.

    But I think you are all vastly under-estimating the cost of climate change; the cost of nuclear won't even make 1% of the cost of using fossil fuels.
  • Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Surely Fukushima just shows more thought possibly needs to go into the location of power stations and that putting them in earthquake / tsunami zones.

    You don't know what's going to happen. Did you predict the pandemic too?
    Predicting earthquakes on geological faults with a history of earthquakes doesn't take Nostradamus. Sure, it was bigger than normal but the risk was known.
    In 2014, the undiscounted decommissioning cost estimate for Sellafield was increased to £79.1 billion,[20] and by 2015 to £117.4 billion.[9] The annual operating cost will be £2 billion in 2016.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Decommissioning_Authority#:~:text=In 2014, the undiscounted decommissioning,£2 billion in 2016.

    What happened with Sellafield? After time radioactive waste got washed into the sea, as result of a lack of due care and due diligence. I've said already a couple of times now, I'm not against it, it just need explaining to the public, especially if you find out it's on your doorstep!
    This cannot be the case - those in the nuclear industry don't make mistakes as the industry is so well regulated and they are the only people competent at their jobs. I read that recently on this forum.
    In 1976 an un-noticed leak from a waste silo led to 50,000 curies of radiation seeping out. Media attention was at it peak in 1983 when radioactive ruthenium was allowed out to sea and washed back onto the holiday beaches.Beach contamination was reproted in Feb 23 1984 issue of Whitehaven News. The public were told to stay away from the contaminated beaches and BNFL was stung by a £70,000 court bill for the leak.Monitoring the beach for radioactivity 1984 It was this same beach that in 1992 was the target for a public attack by the rock band U2 with the group's singer Bono teaming up with Greenpeace to protest at the radioactive waste being dumped out to sea. Greenpeace at one stage sent hired divers down to the undersea section of the Sellafield discharge pipelines and succeeded in inserting inflatable bungs which brought reprocessing briefly to a halt. The most recent instances of the effects of the pollution have been that in 1997 technetium (a dangerous radioactive


    http://www.lakestay.co.uk/hot.htm#:~:text=In 1976 an un-noticed,curies of radiation seeping out.&text=It was this same beach,being dumped out to sea.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,585
    edited February 2021
    1976 - that's 45 years ago.
  • Human Nature isn't always contentious, doesn't history reflect that?
  • Jezyboy said:

    Pross said:

    Surely Fukushima just shows more thought possibly needs to go into the location of power stations and that putting them in earthquake / tsunami zones.

    You don't know what's going to happen. Did you predict the pandemic too?
    Wasn't a pandemic number one on the national risk register?
    How about you, did you predict it, the precise time, when, where and spread pattern?

    Why didn't we save ourselves £400,000,000,000 and counting?
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,479

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Surely Fukushima just shows more thought possibly needs to go into the location of power stations and that putting them in earthquake / tsunami zones.

    You don't know what's going to happen. Did you predict the pandemic too?
    Predicting earthquakes on geological faults with a history of earthquakes doesn't take Nostradamus. Sure, it was bigger than normal but the risk was known.
    In 2014, the undiscounted decommissioning cost estimate for Sellafield was increased to £79.1 billion,[20] and by 2015 to £117.4 billion.[9] The annual operating cost will be £2 billion in 2016.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Decommissioning_Authority#:~:text=In 2014, the undiscounted decommissioning,£2 billion in 2016.

    What happened with Sellafield? After time radioactive waste got washed into the sea, as result of a lack of due care and due diligence. I've said already a couple of times now, I'm not against it, it just need explaining to the public, especially if you find out it's on your doorstep!
    This cannot be the case - those in the nuclear industry don't make mistakes as the industry is so well regulated and they are the only people competent at their jobs. I read that recently on this forum.
    In 1976 an un-noticed leak from a waste silo led to 50,000 curies of radiation seeping out. Media attention was at it peak in 1983 when radioactive ruthenium was allowed out to sea and washed back onto the holiday beaches.Beach contamination was reproted in Feb 23 1984 issue of Whitehaven News. The public were told to stay away from the contaminated beaches and BNFL was stung by a £70,000 court bill for the leak.Monitoring the beach for radioactivity 1984 It was this same beach that in 1992 was the target for a public attack by the rock band U2 with the group's singer Bono teaming up with Greenpeace to protest at the radioactive waste being dumped out to sea. Greenpeace at one stage sent hired divers down to the undersea section of the Sellafield discharge pipelines and succeeded in inserting inflatable bungs which brought reprocessing briefly to a halt. The most recent instances of the effects of the pollution have been that in 1997 technetium (a dangerous radioactive


    http://www.lakestay.co.uk/hot.htm#:~:text=In 1976 an un-noticed,curies of radiation seeping out.&text=It was this same beach,being dumped out to sea.
    You may have missed my intended sarcasm. Perhaps they should have got teachers or architects to do the design work?

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,568
    CCGT with CCS is likely to be a better option than nuclear as it can be turned off to fit around renewables. It is also likely to be cheaper. The Climate Change Committee expects both to be deployed.
  • Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Surely Fukushima just shows more thought possibly needs to go into the location of power stations and that putting them in earthquake / tsunami zones.

    You don't know what's going to happen. Did you predict the pandemic too?
    Predicting earthquakes on geological faults with a history of earthquakes doesn't take Nostradamus. Sure, it was bigger than normal but the risk was known.
    In 2014, the undiscounted decommissioning cost estimate for Sellafield was increased to £79.1 billion,[20] and by 2015 to £117.4 billion.[9] The annual operating cost will be £2 billion in 2016.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Decommissioning_Authority#:~:text=In 2014, the undiscounted decommissioning,£2 billion in 2016.

    What happened with Sellafield? After time radioactive waste got washed into the sea, as result of a lack of due care and due diligence. I've said already a couple of times now, I'm not against it, it just need explaining to the public, especially if you find out it's on your doorstep!
    This cannot be the case - those in the nuclear industry don't make mistakes as the industry is so well regulated and they are the only people competent at their jobs. I read that recently on this forum.
    In 1976 an un-noticed leak from a waste silo led to 50,000 curies of radiation seeping out. Media attention was at it peak in 1983 when radioactive ruthenium was allowed out to sea and washed back onto the holiday beaches.Beach contamination was reproted in Feb 23 1984 issue of Whitehaven News. The public were told to stay away from the contaminated beaches and BNFL was stung by a £70,000 court bill for the leak.Monitoring the beach for radioactivity 1984 It was this same beach that in 1992 was the target for a public attack by the rock band U2 with the group's singer Bono teaming up with Greenpeace to protest at the radioactive waste being dumped out to sea. Greenpeace at one stage sent hired divers down to the undersea section of the Sellafield discharge pipelines and succeeded in inserting inflatable bungs which brought reprocessing briefly to a halt. The most recent instances of the effects of the pollution have been that in 1997 technetium (a dangerous radioactive


    http://www.lakestay.co.uk/hot.htm#:~:text=In 1976 an un-noticed,curies of radiation seeping out.&text=It was this same beach,being dumped out to sea.
    You may have missed my intended sarcasm. Perhaps they should have got teachers or architects to do the design work?

    See!

    I missed that completely, !!!DANGEROUS!!!

    Don't get me wrong. I would like to see Rolls Royce build examples here and then export them across the World making billions.
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 2,907
    Old people moaning that things were better in their day.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,385
    Oh yeah, it's been terribly exciting for the local news...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,859
    ddraver said:

    Oh yeah, it's been terribly exciting for the local news...


    I should think it's been pretty exciting for my friend who lives just the other side of the road too.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,385
    Most exciting thing that's happened since that sheep got loose in the lane...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,585
    ddraver said:

    Most exciting thing that's happened since that sheep got loose in the lane...

    Oh mate you have obviously not lived in East Anglia...
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078

    ddraver said:

    Most exciting thing that's happened since that sheep got loose in the lane...

    Oh mate you have obviously not lived in East Anglia...
    There was that hostage situation at North Norfolk Radio that spilled over onto Cromer pier...
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,585
    edited February 2021
    elbowloh said:

    ddraver said:

    Most exciting thing that's happened since that sheep got loose in the lane...

    Oh mate you have obviously not lived in East Anglia...
    There was that hostage situation at North Norfolk Radio that spilled over onto Cromer pier...
    I once made it on Look East in a very Partridge bit when Anglian water came in to do an experiment on which water us teenage Fen folk preferred: filtered, tap or bottled.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,859

    elbowloh said:

    ddraver said:

    Most exciting thing that's happened since that sheep got loose in the lane...

    Oh mate you have obviously not lived in East Anglia...
    There was that hostage situation at North Norfolk Radio that spilled over onto Cromer pier...
    I once made it on Look East in a very Partridge bit when Anglian water came in to do an experiment on which water us teenage Fen folk preferred: filtered, tap or bottled.

    Dayumm... now that's exciting! Better than old bombs, for sure.
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    So, don't leave us hanging. The suspense is killing me.

    What kind of water do the fen folk like? I'm guessing, lapped straight from the Broads.

    That came out dirtier than intended.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,479

    Flippin 'eck - surrounded by residential properties...

    I looked at that and thought "that looks close to the site I had to visit to do a condition survey a few months back" did a quick check and it is the site. The landowner was pushing for the developer to replace their road, looks like they'll get their way now! :D
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,585
    elbowloh said:

    So, don't leave us hanging. The suspense is killing me.

    What kind of water do the fen folk like? I'm guessing, lapped straight from the Broads.

    That came out dirtier than intended.

    Well what do you think Anglian Water wanted the result to be?
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,202

    Human Nature isn't always contentious, doesn't history reflect that?

    (CNN)The US government has spent the past week assessing a report of a leak at a Chinese nuclear power plant, after a French company that part owns and helps operate it warned of an "imminent radiological threat," according to US officials and documents reviewed by CNN.

    The warning included an accusation that the Chinese safety authority was raising the acceptable limits for radiation detection outside the Taishan Nuclear Power Plant in Guangdong province in order to avoid having to shut it down, according to a letter from the French company to the US Department of Energy obtained by CNN.


    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/14/politics/china-nuclear-reactor-leak-us-monitoring/index.html

    This is what concerns me about nuclear power akin to the situation with Covid19. Can you trust the people involved to be open and transparent?