Who is your rider of 2020?

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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    edited November 2020
    mididoctors said:

    if i look at the greats of 95 indurain rominger jaja bugno sorenson pascal richard virenque pantani riis chippolini zabel et al

    which list is better then or now?


    In 2016 you had Froome, Contador, Nibali, Quintana, Valverde, Rodriguez, Cavendish, Kittel, Greipel, Boonen, Sagan, Cancellara, Van Avermaet. By any measure that's better.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    RichN95. said:

    mididoctors said:

    if i look at the greats of 95 indurain rominger jaja bugno sorenson pascal richard virenque pantani riis chippolini zabel et al

    which list is better then or now?


    In 2016 you had Froome, Contador, Nibali, Quintana, Cavendish, Kittel, Greipel, Boonen, Sagan, Cancellara, Van Avermaet

    i would argue your list is better


    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    find me a rider like a sagan or WvA in 95... jalabert maybe
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    Hirsch vs Pascal Richard?

    Pascal Richard was hyper canny but god Hirsch can ride a bike
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    mididoctors said:

    Hirsch vs Pascal Richard?

    Pascal Richard was hyper canny but god Hirsch can ride a bike


    I think current list of 2020 stars will look a better list in 2025
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    RichN95. said:

    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    Lance Armstrong was boring except maybe in 2003 . Indurain was boring . Olano was genuinely boring . Jesus if roglic is boring he'll knows what the rest are .

    Think this call on Indurain being boring is unfair. He regularly went from a long way out, especially in the 1995 Tour when his Liege and Le Plagne rides were exceptional and hugely entertaining. His battle with Pantani in 1994 was also great to watch.

    In seven Grand Tour wins he never won a non-TT stage, which he didn't need to as he'd bludgen the opposition in those TTs. I can't remember him try to much either.
    Apart from the two stages I mentioned you mean? I also recall he animated a stage to Hautucam that was ultimately won by Luc Leblanc. The stage to Mende in 95 there was only Riis and Pantani that could stay with him, but Jalabert won from the break. I can recall similar stages in 1993 with Rominger winning the stage after Indurain had broken the peleton. He wasn't interested in stage wins because he didn't need them, but there were plenty of examples on major climbs where he broke his rivals.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    mididoctors said:

    find me a rider like a sagan or WvA in 95... jalabert maybe

    Gianni Bugno, Michaeli Bartali, Johann Museeu, Argentin....
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,611
    RichN95. said:

    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    Lance Armstrong was boring except maybe in 2003 . Indurain was boring . Olano was genuinely boring . Jesus if roglic is boring he'll knows what the rest are .

    Think this call on Indurain being boring is unfair. He regularly went from a long way out, especially in the 1995 Tour when his Liege and Le Plagne rides were exceptional and hugely entertaining. His battle with Pantani in 1994 was also great to watch.

    In seven Grand Tour wins he never won a non-TT stage, which he didn't need to as he'd bludgen the opposition in those TTs. I can't remember him try to much either.
    He was more than happy to gift stage wins though to reward others who had helped make breaks etc stick. (No bonus seconds back then!)
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited November 2020
    mididoctors said:

    find me a rider like a sagan or WvA in 95... jalabert maybe

    Hard to find one in most years tbf.

    I sort of feel 50 years ago WvA would just be one of the 'big' riders, Merckx like.
    _
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    find me a rider like a sagan or WvA in 95... jalabert maybe

    Gianni Bugno, Michaeli Bartali, Johann Museeu, Argentin....
    they all contain parts of the sagan DNA. Bugno for being a climber that wins reduced bunch sprints (without looking like he's trying), Museeuw for his cobble riding skills, argentin for his accelerations uphill, and Bartali for being a good alrounder.

    one thing none except museeuw and maybe Bartali were as good at sagan is, is of course descending. all of them looked better than he does on a bike.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    rick_chasey said:

    JA should get a lot of love for his entertainment value - rare beast who entertains (as villain or hero) whilst still padding out a highly impressive palmares

    This post reported to @iainf72

    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • jimmyjams
    jimmyjams Posts: 784
    mididoctors said:

    if i look at the greats of 95 indurain rominger jaja bugno sorenson pascal richard virenque pantani riis chippolini zabel et al

    which list is better then or now?

    Amongst others (e.g. Museeuw), you've missed from your list the 'new star in the cycling heavens' of 1994, winning LBL and the Giro, who squandered a follow-up Giro win in 1995 by arguing with a teammate, and by the time of the 1995 Tour was (with hindsight but not realised then) already and so soon a fading star, even if his potential now and again flickered for another 3 years – a great talent but a sorry example of mentally being unable to cope with sudden success and fame, and thus having big problems within his team as well as in his private life: Evgeni Berzin.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    find me a rider like a sagan or WvA in 95... jalabert maybe

    Gianni Bugno, Michaeli Bartali, Johann Museeu, Argentin....
    johnny Bugno maybe

    non of the rest could perform in the high mountains
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    find me a rider like a sagan or WvA in 95... jalabert maybe

    Gianni Bugno, Michaeli Bartali, Johann Museeu, Argentin....
    Argentin retired in 1994.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    mididoctors said:

    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    find me a rider like a sagan or WvA in 95... jalabert maybe

    Gianni Bugno, Michaeli Bartali, Johann Museeu, Argentin....
    johnny Bugno maybe

    non of the rest could perform in the high mountains
    Argentin made the podium of the Giro.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    find me a rider like a sagan or WvA in 95... jalabert maybe

    Gianni Bugno, Michaeli Bartali, Johann Museeu, Argentin....
    johnny Bugno maybe

    non of the rest could perform in the high mountains
    Argentin made the podium of the Giro.

    So did Serhiy Honchar
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    That well known mountain goat Moser won it as well.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    edited November 2020
    RichN95. said:

    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    find me a rider like a sagan or WvA in 95... jalabert maybe

    Gianni Bugno, Michaeli Bartali, Johann Museeu, Argentin....
    johnny Bugno maybe

    non of the rest could perform in the high mountains
    Argentin made the podium of the Giro.

    So did Serhiy Honchar
    The suggestion was that he wasn't as good at climbing as WvA. If you get a couple of top 10s in a Grand Tour, it kinda suggests you're probably good enough to be one of the first engines in a mountain train. He also won LBL 4 times as well as Lombardia, so while he may not be a mountain goat, he was hardly a duffer when the road pointed upwards.

    Lest we forget, WvA has 1 monument and a best of 20th in a GT. I reckon Argentin could hold his own.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    webboo said:

    That well known mountain goat Moser won it as well.

    Again, he achieved a top 10 finish in 10 Grand Tours, so while he may not be a mountain goat, to portray him as a duffer up hill is wide of the mark. We're blowing smoke up the backside of WvA, despite him achieving nowhere near what riders that are being dismissed out of hand.
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    When Moser won the Giro they altered the queen stage so it didn’t go over the high cols. They said there was snow on them however when one of the rival teams drove over they were all clear.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    phreak said:

    RichN95. said:

    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    find me a rider like a sagan or WvA in 95... jalabert maybe

    Gianni Bugno, Michaeli Bartali, Johann Museeu, Argentin....
    johnny Bugno maybe

    non of the rest could perform in the high mountains
    Argentin made the podium of the Giro.

    So did Serhiy Honchar
    The suggestion was that he wasn't as good at climbing as WvA. If you get a couple of top 10s in a Grand Tour, it kinda suggests you're probably good enough to be one of the first engines in a mountain train. He also won LBL 4 times as well as Lombardia, so while he may not be a mountain goat, he was hardly a duffer when the road pointed upwards.

    Lest we forget, WvA has 1 monument and a best of 20th in a GT. I reckon Argentin could hold his own.

    Oh, agreed. I don't expect WVA to do much in a tough high mountain stage. He can hang in there when the GC guys effectively have a truce.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    Torriani basically designed routes for the Giro to allow Saronni and Moser to win, characterised by a lack of high mountains and, and arguably most crucially, without back to back mountain stages. I don't think you can really cite Moser as a great GT rider. As a one day rider though, definitely.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    edited November 2020
    andyp said:

    Torriani basically designed routes for the Giro to allow Saronni and Moser to win, characterised by a lack of high mountains and, and arguably most crucially, without back to back mountain stages. I don't think you can really cite Moser as a great GT rider. As a one day rider though, definitely.


    They've always pandered to the big Italian star of the time. Cipollini and Petacchi got more sprint stages than was necessary. I expect five time trials per Giro minimum for the next few years. ;)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    jimmyjams said:

    mididoctors said:

    if i look at the greats of 95 indurain rominger jaja bugno sorenson pascal richard virenque pantani riis chippolini zabel et al

    which list is better then or now?

    Amongst others (e.g. Museeuw), you've missed from your list the 'new star in the cycling heavens' of 1994, winning LBL and the Giro, who squandered a follow-up Giro win in 1995 by arguing with a teammate, and by the time of the 1995 Tour was (with hindsight but not realised then) already and so soon a fading star, even if his potential now and again flickered for another 3 years – a great talent but a sorry example of mentally being unable to cope with sudden success and fame, and thus having big problems within his team as well as in his private life: Evgeni Berzin.
    berzin doesnt get on any list of mine tbh


    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    find me a rider like a sagan or WvA in 95... jalabert maybe

    Gianni Bugno, Michaeli Bartali, Johann Museeu, Argentin....
    johnny Bugno maybe

    non of the rest could perform in the high mountains
    Argentin made the podium of the Giro.
    did he ..my bad
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    edited November 2020
    RichN95. said:

    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    find me a rider like a sagan or WvA in 95... jalabert maybe

    Gianni Bugno, Michaeli Bartali, Johann Museeu, Argentin....
    johnny Bugno maybe

    non of the rest could perform in the high mountains
    Argentin made the podium of the Giro.

    So did Serhiy Honchar
    the giro was not the great race it has become pettachi won 9 stages that year iirc
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • jimmyjams
    jimmyjams Posts: 784
    mididoctors said:

    jimmyjams said:

    mididoctors said:

    if i look at the greats of 95 indurain rominger jaja bugno sorenson pascal richard virenque pantani riis chippolini zabel et al

    which list is better then or now?

    Amongst others (e.g. Museeuw), you've missed from your list the 'new star in the cycling heavens' of 1994, winning LBL and the Giro, who squandered a follow-up Giro win in 1995 by arguing with a teammate, and by the time of the 1995 Tour was (with hindsight but not realised then) already and so soon a fading star, even if his potential now and again flickered for another 3 years – a great talent but a sorry example of mentally being unable to cope with sudden success and fame, and thus having big problems within his team as well as in his private life: Evgeni Berzin.
    berzin doesnt get on any list of mine tbh


    Why?
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    jimmyjams said:

    mididoctors said:

    jimmyjams said:

    mididoctors said:

    if i look at the greats of 95 indurain rominger jaja bugno sorenson pascal richard virenque pantani riis chippolini zabel et al

    which list is better then or now?

    Amongst others (e.g. Museeuw), you've missed from your list the 'new star in the cycling heavens' of 1994, winning LBL and the Giro, who squandered a follow-up Giro win in 1995 by arguing with a teammate, and by the time of the 1995 Tour was (with hindsight but not realised then) already and so soon a fading star, even if his potential now and again flickered for another 3 years – a great talent but a sorry example of mentally being unable to cope with sudden success and fame, and thus having big problems within his team as well as in his private life: Evgeni Berzin.
    berzin doesnt get on any list of mine tbh


    Why?
    I just like being controversial
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
    Those sages among us who voted from Primoz Roglic were right.

    https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/primoz-roglic-wins-prestigious-velo-dor-prize/

    No second and third as yet, although unsurprisingly Julian Alaphillipe took the award for best french rider.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • davieb78
    davieb78 Posts: 99
    blazing_saddles said:

    Those sages among us who voted from Primoz Roglic were right.

    https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/primoz-roglic-wins-prestigious-velo-dor-prize/

    No second and third as yet, although unsurprisingly Julian Alaphillipe took the award for best french rider.

    Pretty bad that article on LBL. Makes it sound as though Alaphillipe actually won it and was then relegated from the win, when of course we all know that was not the case because he sat up like a loon.

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