Giro 2020 - Stage 18: Pinzolo – Laghi di Cancano 207 km *Spoilers*

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Comments

  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    salsiccia1 said:

    Surprised to hear Kelderman say that, TBH

    Especially as it's almost certain the team told him to do what he did. Presumably that would have been conveyed to Kelderman too. Why potentially put two riders out of contention when you've got a spare hand to play?
  • notquite6foot
    notquite6foot Posts: 248
    edited October 2020
    Blimey, what a stage. And what an immense two days it's been for 24 year-old pro cyclists from Perth.

    BTW, the gap between Pozzovivo (12th place, +9:34) and Samitier (13th place, +26:12) in GC is more than 16 minutes.

    Cracking job by Dennis today. His TT prowess certainly came in handy for Tao.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    I'd have gone all in for Kelderman. With a 2:30 lead their best chance of a win was to preserve as much of that as possible as the chances of the other guy beating TGH over the next 3 days seem minimal.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,490
    DeVlaeminck said:

    I'd have gone all in for Kelderman. With a 2:30 lead their best chance of a win was to preserve as much of that as possible as the chances of the other guy beating TGH over the next 3 days seem minimal.

    You do realise that Kelderman is in Pink and strong favourite to win?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    pblakeney said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    I'd have gone all in for Kelderman. With a 2:30 lead their best chance of a win was to preserve as much of that as possible as the chances of the other guy beating TGH over the next 3 days seem minimal.

    You do realise that Kelderman is in Pink and strong favourite to win?

    The bookies generally have it Kelderman Evens, TGH 2/1 and Hindley 4/1 (just adding the facts)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    My guess is that Kelderman doesn't start the TT in pink. Which brings me to a question. The supplier of the Maglia Rosa is Castelli who also supply Ineos but not Sunweb. Could they rustle up a pink skinsuit to Tao's exact specs if he happened to be leading rather than an off the peg number? And would they?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,490
    edited October 2020
    Almeida seemed happy enough in his.
    Can't see there being much time difference between what he had and custom.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    DeVlaeminck said:

    I'd have gone all in for Kelderman. With a 2:30 lead their best chance of a win was to preserve as much of that as possible as the chances of the other guy beating TGH over the next 3 days seem minimal.

    I know it's an unpopular point of view but I agree. If Hindley had waited I'm sure Kelderman would've been further ahead ( he lost buckets on the flat) , but if it was about Hindley he should've attacked TGH on the last climb.
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,228
    inseine said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    I'd have gone all in for Kelderman. With a 2:30 lead their best chance of a win was to preserve as much of that as possible as the chances of the other guy beating TGH over the next 3 days seem minimal.

    I know it's an unpopular point of view but I agree. If Hindley had waited I'm sure Kelderman would've been further ahead ( he lost buckets on the flat) , but if it was about Hindley he should've attacked TGH on the last climb.
    That's with the benefit of hindsight - he looked in a right state at the time. I think either would have worked, but the one they ended up with was the better percentage play.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    RichN95. said:

    And there ends one of the great domestique performances of modern times

    Agree. Not often you see one rider blow a race completely apart like that. Phenomenal ride.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    Fastest ever ascent of the Stelvio apparently.

  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    While I only managed to catch the flat and then the last climb, I'm mystified as to why anyone thinks Sunweb did anything other than play this perfectly. The whole point of having two cards to play is being able to play either of them.
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  • jam1e
    jam1e Posts: 1,068
    Yeah, I'm not sure what "all in for Kelderman" would have looked like - Hindley V Dennis along the valley in a Sunweb V Ineos 2upTT? I'm sure Ineos would've loved that scenario.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    edited October 2020
    It wouldn't be a proper Giro without a drugs scandal involving one of the wildcard Italian teams;

  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,717
    edited October 2020
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    While I only managed to catch the flat and then the last climb, I'm mystified as to why anyone thinks Sunweb did anything other than play this perfectly. The whole point of having two cards to play is being able to play either of them.

    Just looked a bit sh1t doesn't it? Not much honour in it.

    Having seen them cross the line though, to his credit he did the minimum of celebration, so fair play
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    edited October 2020
    O Connor and Hindley both from Perth ?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    andyp said:

    Fastest ever ascent of the Stelvio apparently.

    But if you search that website for previous Stelvio climbs, none match up to todays in terms of distance and gradient.

    http://www.climbing-records.com/search?q=stelvio

    I see TGH and Hindley did the last climb in exactly the same time as Van Vleuten did last year.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    blazing_saddles said:

    When Fuglsang and Bilbao came up to him, Kelderman couldn't hold their wheel for one pedal stroke. So I wouldn't be optimistic that Hindley could have coaxed much more from him.
    Plus, TGH would have been free to ride flat out for the whole climb, which he couldn't with Hindley attached to this rear wheel.

    No brainer to me.

    Agree

    Sunweb made the right call . Hindley was an anchor on tgh ... At the end of the day sunweb are 1st and second on GC letting tao go all in they would probably be 2 and 3rd
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,340
    ddraver said:

    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    While I only managed to catch the flat and then the last climb, I'm mystified as to why anyone thinks Sunweb did anything other than play this perfectly. The whole point of having two cards to play is being able to play either of them.

    Just looked a bit censored doesn't it? Not much honour in it.

    Having seen them cross the line though, to his credit he did the minimum of celebration, so fair play
    I don't think the question was about the finish line mugging - damn right that's what you do - but whether Hindley should have dropped back for Kelderman. Ineos had put Sunweb in a position where both options looked like bad choices. Sunweb played the slightly braver card, probably as Kelderman looked cooked, and it worked out really well for them.
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,717
    Oh...

    Yeah, I didn't see any problem with the rest of it which is pr'haps why I didn't get Doc's point.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    Turns out the drug isn't yet approved for human use.

  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,340
    Anyone posted this yet?

    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    mididoctors said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    When Fuglsang and Bilbao came up to him, Kelderman couldn't hold their wheel for one pedal stroke. So I wouldn't be optimistic that Hindley could have coaxed much more from him.
    Plus, TGH would have been free to ride flat out for the whole climb, which he couldn't with Hindley attached to this rear wheel.

    No brainer to me.

    Agree

    Sunweb made the right call . Hindley was an anchor on tgh ... At the end of the day sunweb are 1st and second on GC letting tao go all in they would probably be 2 and 3rd
    I've not heard of this anchor thing before.
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,620
    In normal circumstances I'd say that sunweb have really ballsed this up. With the TT to come Hindley can't win, so they should've backed Kelderman. But all 3 are third rate and any of them could lose 5 minutes on Saturday or get caught out having a pee on Friday.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    inseine said:

    mididoctors said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    When Fuglsang and Bilbao came up to him, Kelderman couldn't hold their wheel for one pedal stroke. So I wouldn't be optimistic that Hindley could have coaxed much more from him.
    Plus, TGH would have been free to ride flat out for the whole climb, which he couldn't with Hindley attached to this rear wheel.

    No brainer to me.

    Agree

    Sunweb made the right call . Hindley was an anchor on tgh ... At the end of the day sunweb are 1st and second on GC letting tao go all in they would probably be 2 and 3rd
    I've not heard of this anchor thing before.
    Fairly simple, Tao had to either drop Hindley or keep something in reserve in case he attacked. He got mugged for the bonus seconds and stage win at the finish, but if he'd gone harder and not shifted Hindley he could have been mugged for a couple of minutes.
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  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,340
    gsk82 said:

    In normal circumstances I'd say that sunweb have really ballsed this up. With the TT to come Hindley can't win, so they should've backed Kelderman. But all 3 are third rate and any of them could lose 5 minutes on Saturday or get caught out having a pee on Friday.

    Good point. It's 2020 - sensible thing to do is stick a fiver on Bilbao.
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,490
    gsk82 said:

    In normal circumstances I'd say that sunweb have really ballsed this up. With the TT to come Hindley can't win, so they should've backed Kelderman. But all 3 are third rate and any of them could lose 5 minutes on Saturday or get caught out having a pee on Friday.

    What then if Kelderman hits a water bottle tomorrow for example?
    They played the odds, came up pink and still have a back-up, if at reduced odds.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • exlaser
    exlaser Posts: 268
    edited October 2020
    All three are third rate ? True some of the biggest hitters are not at the Giro but these three have a big gap over some class riders including grand tour winners . You can only beat the people that turn up to race . If you win, your in the record books, end of .😀
    Opps I seem to answered a post that has been deleted 😂
    Van Nicholas Ventus
    Rose Xeon RS
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    pblakeney said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    I'd have gone all in for Kelderman. With a 2:30 lead their best chance of a win was to preserve as much of that as possible as the chances of the other guy beating TGH over the next 3 days seem minimal.

    You do realise that Kelderman is in Pink and strong favourite to win?
    Errr yes of course. You do realise that at one point in the stage it looked very possible that an isolated Kelderman was going to ship more time ?

    I know why Sunweb did what they did but I think it was a mistake. They may have got away with it (though they may not) but the better course of action would have been all in for Kelderman. You are of course free to disagree.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    pblakeney said:

    gsk82 said:

    In normal circumstances I'd say that sunweb have really ballsed this up. With the TT to come Hindley can't win, so they should've backed Kelderman. But all 3 are third rate and any of them could lose 5 minutes on Saturday or get caught out having a pee on Friday.

    What then if Kelderman hits a water bottle tomorrow for example?
    They played the odds, came up pink and still have a back-up, if at reduced odds.
    If Kelderman hits a water bottle tomorrow then Hindley still can't (OK looks extremely unlikely to) win unless Kelderman takes TGH out in the process. Hindley could still have remained third on GC and helped Kelderman.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]

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