Exam Grades

johngti

It's also pointless effort. I don't see any reason why the Oak Academy materials couldn't be put out on TV (Sky/Virgin could easily step up there). That gives the majority something to work with and schools where it's less useful supplement or do their own thing.

We've taken the approach of the key stage leaders producing materials for all classes and the class teacher dealing with problems and doing tutorial style live lessons. Workload is minimised for most, resources are consistent and everyone can focus on engaging with their students.

TheBigBean

45% A/A* for this year's A-Levels.

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

45% A/A* for this year's A-Levels.

If I hear one more teacher on TV claim that all the grades are just the same as previous years I'm going to scream. They are like flat earthers, ignoring the actual evidence.

TheBigBean

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

Bloody hell.

pangolin

I suppose it's possible that's the level students are always at if you remove the exam day pressure / chance of a bad day / cold / bad night's sleep / whatever.

Unlikely though...

johngti

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

45% A/A* for this year's A-Levels.

If I hear one more teacher on TV claim that all the grades are just the same as previous years I'm going to scream. They are like flat earthers, ignoring the actual evidence.

Apparently the major influence on inflating grades has come from public schools.

First.Aspect

johngti said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

45% A/A* for this year's A-Levels.

If I hear one more teacher on TV claim that all the grades are just the same as previous years I'm going to scream. They are like flat earthers, ignoring the actual evidence.

Apparently the major influence on inflating grades has come from public schools.

Hardly a surprise. Will further assist in polarising society.

johngti

First.Aspect said:

johngti said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

45% A/A* for this year's A-Levels.

If I hear one more teacher on TV claim that all the grades are just the same as previous years I'm going to scream. They are like flat earthers, ignoring the actual evidence.

Apparently the major influence on inflating grades has come from public schools.

Hardly a surprise. Will further assist in polarising society.

70% at A*/A in private schools. There was a lot of evidence last year that a similar driver was present in the uplift. Also that lots of students, particularly BAME students from less privileged backgrounds/areas were disproportionately penalised.

The one good thing this year was the amount of assessments done to generate grades. You’re always going to see better results that way when compared to an exam. But exams will continue to be the gold standard in people’s minds. Weaknesses in the system are there but replacing them wholesale with teacher assessments isn’t the way forward. Definitely a strong case for a better approach than exams in their current format, though.

We do the IB diploma so, while our grades went up, every student had to complete coursework in 6 subjects plus an extended essay, plus a theory of knowledge essay, all of which were marked externally. So there is some evidence that they were deserving of the uplift.

First.Aspect

johngti said:

First.Aspect said:

johngti said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

45% A/A* for this year's A-Levels.

If I hear one more teacher on TV claim that all the grades are just the same as previous years I'm going to scream. They are like flat earthers, ignoring the actual evidence.

Apparently the major influence on inflating grades has come from public schools.

Hardly a surprise. Will further assist in polarising society.

70% at A*/A in private schools. There was a lot of evidence last year that a similar driver was present in the uplift. Also that lots of students, particularly BAME students from less privileged backgrounds/areas were disproportionately penalised.

The one good thing this year was the amount of assessments done to generate grades. You’re always going to see better results that way when compared to an exam. But exams will continue to be the gold standard in people’s minds. Weaknesses in the system are there but replacing them wholesale with teacher assessments isn’t the way forward. Definitely a strong case for a better approach than exams in their current format, though.

We do the IB diploma so, while our grades went up, every student had to complete coursework in 6 subjects plus an extended essay, plus a theory of knowledge essay, all of which were marked externally. So there is some evidence that they were deserving of the uplift.

Bit of a bummer if you did a levels in 2018 or 2019 are competing in the job market with this year's bunch though, eh?

johngti

First.Aspect said:

johngti said:

First.Aspect said:

johngti said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

45% A/A* for this year's A-Levels.

If I hear one more teacher on TV claim that all the grades are just the same as previous years I'm going to scream. They are like flat earthers, ignoring the actual evidence.

Apparently the major influence on inflating grades has come from public schools.

Hardly a surprise. Will further assist in polarising society.

70% at A*/A in private schools. There was a lot of evidence last year that a similar driver was present in the uplift. Also that lots of students, particularly BAME students from less privileged backgrounds/areas were disproportionately penalised.

The one good thing this year was the amount of assessments done to generate grades. You’re always going to see better results that way when compared to an exam. But exams will continue to be the gold standard in people’s minds. Weaknesses in the system are there but replacing them wholesale with teacher assessments isn’t the way forward. Definitely a strong case for a better approach than exams in their current format, though.

We do the IB diploma so, while our grades went up, every student had to complete coursework in 6 subjects plus an extended essay, plus a theory of knowledge essay, all of which were marked externally. So there is some evidence that they were deserving of the uplift.

Bit of a bummer if you did a levels in 2018 or 2019 are competing in the job market with this year's bunch though, eh?

No, it’ll probably be fine. I’d be more worried if I’d done them 20-21 because there’s always going to be a question mark over them.

johngti

Not that I even begin to think that the majority of students would have sat back, done nothing and waited for top grades to land in their laps. They’ve worked hard and most have ended up being assessed far more than via a single exam. The trouble is that the whole purpose of the exam system is to rank a cohort and that’s just not possible when every centre is doing their own thing. The exam board sampled the assessments used and in the vast majority of cases agreed with the teacher grades but you obviously can’t rank them nationally.

And it’s not the schools that picked the samples. For GCSE we were told which students we needed to send in so we couldn’t just send the ones we were most confident about.

What we’ve ended up with is the best we could have done under very difficult circumstances

First.Aspect

johngti said:

Not that I even begin to think that the majority of students would have sat back, done nothing and waited for top grades to land in their laps. They’ve worked hard and most have ended up being assessed far more than via a single exam. The trouble is that the whole purpose of the exam system is to rank a cohort and that’s just not possible when every centre is doing their own thing. The exam board sampled the assessments used and in the vast majority of cases agreed with the teacher grades but you obviously can’t rank them nationally.

And it’s not the schools that picked the samples. For GCSE we were told which students we needed to send in so we couldn’t just send the ones we were most confident about.

What we’ve ended up with is the best we could have done under very difficult circumstances

I don't doubt it, but that graph BB posted is still pretty striking.

Do you think there will be a reversion to the mean?

DeVlaeminck

Disgusted that only 45% of students achieved the top grades - that means we have failed 55% or a majority of students - surely having to take A levels during Covid means AT LEAST 100% of grades should be A* or above. There will be some students who have missed out on a place at Oxford and that is just not acceptable.

johngti

First.Aspect said:

johngti said:

Not that I even begin to think that the majority of students would have sat back, done nothing and waited for top grades to land in their laps. They’ve worked hard and most have ended up being assessed far more than via a single exam. The trouble is that the whole purpose of the exam system is to rank a cohort and that’s just not possible when every centre is doing their own thing. The exam board sampled the assessments used and in the vast majority of cases agreed with the teacher grades but you obviously can’t rank them nationally.

And it’s not the schools that picked the samples. For GCSE we were told which students we needed to send in so we couldn’t just send the ones we were most confident about.

What we’ve ended up with is the best we could have done under very difficult circumstances

I don't doubt it, but that graph BB posted is still pretty striking.

Do you think there will be a reversion to the mean?

If you mean do I think that future results will move to the mean of the last couple of years, baking in the grade inflation, then no. I think we’ll be back to exams next year and the results will be more in line with 2019.

First.Aspect

DeVlaeminck said:

Disgusted that only 45% of students achieved the top grades - that means we have failed 55% or a majority of students - surely having to take A levels during Covid means AT LEAST 100% of grades should be A* or above. There will be some students who have missed out on a place at Oxford and that is just not acceptable.

You might be surprised, but Oxford is actually pretty good at identifying duffers during interview, regardless of grade.

johngti

DeVlaeminck said:

Disgusted that only 45% of students achieved the top grades - that means we have failed 55% or a majority of students - surely having to take A levels during Covid means AT LEAST 100% of grades should be A* or above. There will be some students who have missed out on a place at Oxford and that is just not acceptable.

Well Gove wanted everyone to be above average so…

Pross

[john80 mode] Just goes to show that teachers are useless and that kids do better when they don't go to school all year [/john80 mode]

john80

Pross said:

[john80 mode] Just goes to show that teachers are useless and that kids do better when they don't go to school all year [/john80 mode]

Probs if only the top 20% had been given an A we would not be having this discussion. Do you really think nearly half the exam takers being given the top grade is a good thing. Universities were having a hard time deciding between applicants 20 years ago never mind now.

First.Aspect

johngti said:

First.Aspect said:

johngti said:

Not that I even begin to think that the majority of students would have sat back, done nothing and waited for top grades to land in their laps. They’ve worked hard and most have ended up being assessed far more than via a single exam. The trouble is that the whole purpose of the exam system is to rank a cohort and that’s just not possible when every centre is doing their own thing. The exam board sampled the assessments used and in the vast majority of cases agreed with the teacher grades but you obviously can’t rank them nationally.

And it’s not the schools that picked the samples. For GCSE we were told which students we needed to send in so we couldn’t just send the ones we were most confident about.

What we’ve ended up with is the best we could have done under very difficult circumstances

I don't doubt it, but that graph BB posted is still pretty striking.

Do you think there will be a reversion to the mean?

If you mean do I think that future results will move to the mean of the last couple of years, baking in the grade inflation, then no. I think we’ll be back to exams next year and the results will be more in line with 2019.

I meant the latter - i.e. go back to pre-covid grades, and inflation therefrom.

surrey_commuter

Surely the first hard evidence of the success of levelling up

johngti

First.Aspect said:

johngti said:

First.Aspect said:

johngti said:

Not that I even begin to think that the majority of students would have sat back, done nothing and waited for top grades to land in their laps. They’ve worked hard and most have ended up being assessed far more than via a single exam. The trouble is that the whole purpose of the exam system is to rank a cohort and that’s just not possible when every centre is doing their own thing. The exam board sampled the assessments used and in the vast majority of cases agreed with the teacher grades but you obviously can’t rank them nationally.

And it’s not the schools that picked the samples. For GCSE we were told which students we needed to send in so we couldn’t just send the ones we were most confident about.

What we’ve ended up with is the best we could have done under very difficult circumstances

I don't doubt it, but that graph BB posted is still pretty striking.

Do you think there will be a reversion to the mean?

If you mean do I think that future results will move to the mean of the last couple of years, baking in the grade inflation, then no. I think we’ll be back to exams next year and the results will be more in line with 2019.

I meant the latter - i.e. go back to pre-covid grades, and inflation therefrom.

In that case then, yes definitely will go back to pre-COVID levels. Might take a year to settle, depending on whether the exams cover the whole syllabi next year. I know there’s going to be schools where big chunks won’t have been covered in enough detail, if at all.

Pross

john80 said:

Pross said:

[john80 mode] Just goes to show that teachers are useless and that kids do better when they don't go to school all year [/john80 mode]

Probs if only the top 20% had been given an A we would not be having this discussion. Do you really think nearly half the exam takers being given the top grade is a good thing. Universities were having a hard time deciding between applicants 20 years ago never mind now.

To be honest I just don't get the grading system. When I was in school I always assumed it was something like >85% = A (no stars back then), 70-85% = B, 50-70% = C etc.. It's only in the last few years that I've discovered the system isn't as simple as that. I would do away with grades and just give a percentage mark but I'm not an education expert and there is probably a obvious reason why that isn't done.

First.Aspect

I'm not being funny, but what's the lowest grade you can get? Is that a B?

johngti

Pross said:

john80 said:

Pross said:

[john80 mode] Just goes to show that teachers are useless and that kids do better when they don't go to school all year [/john80 mode]

Probs if only the top 20% had been given an A we would not be having this discussion. Do you really think nearly half the exam takers being given the top grade is a good thing. Universities were having a hard time deciding between applicants 20 years ago never mind now.

To be honest I just don't get the grading system. When I was in school I always assumed it was something like >85% = A (no stars back then), 70-85% = B, 50-70% = C etc.. It's only in the last few years that I've discovered the system isn't as simple as that. I would do away with grades and just give a percentage mark but I'm not an education expert and there is probably a obvious reason why that isn't done.

The reason is that exams aren’t consistently “difficult”. Some years are harder than others so grade boundaries are adjusted each year. When a cohort can be ranked, the system does so and then there are pretty much fixed percentages that get each grade. So on average, for example, 5% of grades awarded over the cohort across all gcse exams will be a 9. This isn’t the same for all subjects though. Latin only tends to be done by the most able hence more than 5% get grade 9; everyone has to do maths so, nationally, about 3.5% get 9.

But the problem over the last two years is that the assessments weren’t standardised. There’s just no way that a ranking exercise could have been done so teacher assessments, which will always be more generous, were the only way to get something out. Definitely the case that private schools were much more generous though, although I’m certain that some state schools went mad too

johngti

First.Aspect said:

I'm not being funny, but what's the lowest grade you can get? Is that a B?

At A-level? Grade E is the lowest pass, grade U if you don’t pass. IB does grades 7-1 across 6 subjects so more demanding than A-levels.

morstar

johngti said:

First.Aspect said:

I'm not being funny, but what's the lowest grade you can get? Is that a B?

At A-level? Grade E is the lowest pass, grade U if you don’t pass. IB does grades 7-1 across 6 subjects so more demanding than A-levels.

Sorry, not knocking your input which is useful but…

There is an air of Spinal tap about the wording.

“But this one goes up to 11!”

johngti

morstar said:

johngti said:

First.Aspect said:

I'm not being funny, but what's the lowest grade you can get? Is that a B?

At A-level? Grade E is the lowest pass, grade U if you don’t pass. IB does grades 7-1 across 6 subjects so more demanding than A-levels.

Sorry, not knocking your input which is useful but…

There is an air of Spinal tap about the wording.

“But this one goes up to 11!”

I guess so! Also a bit of a brag because my students actually had work externally assessed. Not very professional of me 😉

Anyway, sorry. Didn’t mean it to come across as such, could have done without the “but 11!!” style comment

pblakeney

johngti said:

First.Aspect said:

I'm not being funny, but what's the lowest grade you can get? Is that a B?

At A-level? Grade E is the lowest pass, grade U if you don’t pass. IB does grades 7-1 across 6 subjects so more demanding than A-levels.

Sorry but if someone tells me that they got a D or an E I am thinking failed.
Doubt I am alone in that.

johngti

pblakeney said:

johngti said:

First.Aspect said:

I'm not being funny, but what's the lowest grade you can get? Is that a B?

At A-level? Grade E is the lowest pass, grade U if you don’t pass. IB does grades 7-1 across 6 subjects so more demanding than A-levels.

Sorry but if someone tells me that they got a D or an E I am thinking failed.
Doubt I am alone in that.

Understandable. But if you get a grade, you’ve passed A-level. Bear in mind that when I did A-levels, the average grade was D. U is a fail.

Similar at GCSE but 5 is known as a “good” pass. So if you get a lower grade in maths or English you’re expected to resit until you get to that standard. Most places need a grade 5 for the purposes of moving on. Some people will never get there.