Unpopular Opinions

Stevo_666

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

TheBigBean said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

I've worked in Engineering for 20years and I have genuinely never experienced a hostile environment.

I think there are some blurred lines here. Are we referring to fabricators, machinists, workshop technicians etc as "Engineers"?

We need another thread "non-trivial things which you find annoying" so I can suggest "hard-earned professional titles being devalued through unregulated use and unprotected status".

I can tell you that regulated use and protected status is not all it's cracked up to be.

No?

I would prefer it if the bloke who comes round to fix my washing machine wasn't referred to as an Engineer. And if he is an Engineer, then what is he doing earning a living under kitchen worktops?

You want this annoyance to go in a non-trivial thread? At least that opinion is in the right thread.

I don't even bother to put my job title on my email. Judge me on the strength of what I say, not the strength of a random title.

My title reflects what I do. It's not a job title, it's a professional one: I'll be an Engineer after I retire.

Would you still pay your registration subs after you retired?

my old man still referred to himself as a Chartered Acct way after retirement and kept receiving trade mags so I am guessing he kept paying subs

He must have had a decent retirement income given how much it costs to stay in 'The Club'.

webboo

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

I've worked in Engineering for 20years and I have genuinely never experienced a hostile environment.

I think there are some blurred lines here. Are we referring to fabricators, machinists, workshop technicians etc as "Engineers"?

We need another thread "non-trivial things which you find annoying" so I can suggest "hard-earned professional titles being devalued through unregulated use and unprotected status".

I can tell you that regulated use and protected status is not all it's cracked up to be.

No?

I would prefer it if the bloke who comes round to fix my washing machine wasn't referred to as an Engineer. And if he is an Engineer, then what is he doing earning a living under kitchen worktops?

I would have a “ real engineer” could mend their own washing machine.

Jeremy.89

A real engineer would work out their hourly rate and it wouldn't be worthwile

Ben6899

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

TheBigBean said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

I've worked in Engineering for 20years and I have genuinely never experienced a hostile environment.

I think there are some blurred lines here. Are we referring to fabricators, machinists, workshop technicians etc as "Engineers"?

We need another thread "non-trivial things which you find annoying" so I can suggest "hard-earned professional titles being devalued through unregulated use and unprotected status".

I can tell you that regulated use and protected status is not all it's cracked up to be.

No?

I would prefer it if the bloke who comes round to fix my washing machine wasn't referred to as an Engineer. And if he is an Engineer, then what is he doing earning a living under kitchen worktops?

You want this annoyance to go in a non-trivial thread? At least that opinion is in the right thread.

I don't even bother to put my job title on my email. Judge me on the strength of what I say, not the strength of a random title.

My title reflects what I do. It's not a job title, it's a professional one: I'll be an Engineer after I retire.

Would you still pay your registration subs after you retired?

Yes.

Ben6899

webboo said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

I've worked in Engineering for 20years and I have genuinely never experienced a hostile environment.

I think there are some blurred lines here. Are we referring to fabricators, machinists, workshop technicians etc as "Engineers"?

We need another thread "non-trivial things which you find annoying" so I can suggest "hard-earned professional titles being devalued through unregulated use and unprotected status".

I can tell you that regulated use and protected status is not all it's cracked up to be.

No?

I would prefer it if the bloke who comes round to fix my washing machine wasn't referred to as an Engineer. And if he is an Engineer, then what is he doing earning a living under kitchen worktops?

I would have a “ real engineer” could mend their own washing machine.

Oh I can! Don't worry about that.

Stevo_666

Just invent a slightly different label to distinguish yourself from the peasants. Works for us Chartered Accountants

How about 'Chartered Engineer (and no, we don't do washing machines)' ?

john80

pblakeney said:

Engineering is a fairly harsh environment where everybody gets abuse on a regular basis.
Is that a popular or unpopular opinion?

Not sure what sort of rough arse engineering sector you are in. Try that on any design or testing job i am involved in and it is you that would be asked to leave the building and not return. People should have more awkward conversations with those who have this mindset.

Ben6899

john80 said:

pblakeney said:

Engineering is a fairly harsh environment where everybody gets abuse on a regular basis.
Is that a popular or unpopular opinion?

Not sure what sort of rough censored engineering sector you are in. Try that on any design or testing job i am involved in and it is you that would be asked to leave the building and not return. People should have more awkward conversations with those who have this mindset.

Yeh, even the lads on the tools... and they are "lads" in a lot of cases... know to tone it down when on site otherwise not be asked back.

surrey_commuter

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

TheBigBean said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

I've worked in Engineering for 20years and I have genuinely never experienced a hostile environment.

I think there are some blurred lines here. Are we referring to fabricators, machinists, workshop technicians etc as "Engineers"?

We need another thread "non-trivial things which you find annoying" so I can suggest "hard-earned professional titles being devalued through unregulated use and unprotected status".

I can tell you that regulated use and protected status is not all it's cracked up to be.

No?

I would prefer it if the bloke who comes round to fix my washing machine wasn't referred to as an Engineer. And if he is an Engineer, then what is he doing earning a living under kitchen worktops?

You want this annoyance to go in a non-trivial thread? At least that opinion is in the right thread.

I don't even bother to put my job title on my email. Judge me on the strength of what I say, not the strength of a random title.

My title reflects what I do. It's not a job title, it's a professional one: I'll be an Engineer after I retire.

Would you still pay your registration subs after you retired?

my old man still referred to himself as a Chartered Acct way after retirement and kept receiving trade mags so I am guessing he kept paying subs

He must have had a decent retirement income given how much it costs to stay in 'The Club'.

there is nowt as tight as a northern accountant so I can only think there were rates for retirees

pblakeney

john80 said:

pblakeney said:

Engineering is a fairly harsh environment where everybody gets abuse on a regular basis.
Is that a popular or unpopular opinion?

Not sure what sort of rough censored engineering sector you are in. Try that on any design or testing job i am involved in and it is you that would be asked to leave the building and not return. People should have more awkward conversations with those who have this mindset.

In multiple design offices. It depends on who’s around. Obs.

Stevo_666

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

TheBigBean said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

I've worked in Engineering for 20years and I have genuinely never experienced a hostile environment.

I think there are some blurred lines here. Are we referring to fabricators, machinists, workshop technicians etc as "Engineers"?

We need another thread "non-trivial things which you find annoying" so I can suggest "hard-earned professional titles being devalued through unregulated use and unprotected status".

I can tell you that regulated use and protected status is not all it's cracked up to be.

No?

I would prefer it if the bloke who comes round to fix my washing machine wasn't referred to as an Engineer. And if he is an Engineer, then what is he doing earning a living under kitchen worktops?

You want this annoyance to go in a non-trivial thread? At least that opinion is in the right thread.

I don't even bother to put my job title on my email. Judge me on the strength of what I say, not the strength of a random title.

My title reflects what I do. It's not a job title, it's a professional one: I'll be an Engineer after I retire.

Would you still pay your registration subs after you retired?

my old man still referred to himself as a Chartered Acct way after retirement and kept receiving trade mags so I am guessing he kept paying subs

He must have had a decent retirement income given how much it costs to stay in 'The Club'.

there is nowt as tight as a northern accountant so I can only think there were rates for retirees

Nothing wrong with that. Actually there probably are reduced rates for retirees but theres been no in point me looking yet

First.Aspect

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

I've worked in Engineering for 20years and I have genuinely never experienced a hostile environment.

I think there are some blurred lines here. Are we referring to fabricators, machinists, workshop technicians etc as "Engineers"?

We need another thread "non-trivial things which you find annoying" so I can suggest "hard-earned professional titles being devalued through unregulated use and unprotected status".

I can tell you that regulated use and protected status is not all it's cracked up to be.

No?

I would prefer it if the bloke who comes round to fix my washing machine wasn't referred to as an Engineer. And if he is an Engineer, then what is he doing earning a living under kitchen worktops?

No. It's just vanity.

I disagree. What about "Doctor"? Is it vanity if a medical professional has an issue with me suddenly referring to myself as "Doctor" and selling services under that guise?

Chiropractors and homeopathists do it all the time.

webboo

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

I've worked in Engineering for 20years and I have genuinely never experienced a hostile environment.

I think there are some blurred lines here. Are we referring to fabricators, machinists, workshop technicians etc as "Engineers"?

We need another thread "non-trivial things which you find annoying" so I can suggest "hard-earned professional titles being devalued through unregulated use and unprotected status".

I can tell you that regulated use and protected status is not all it's cracked up to be.

No?

I would prefer it if the bloke who comes round to fix my washing machine wasn't referred to as an Engineer. And if he is an Engineer, then what is he doing earning a living under kitchen worktops?

No. It's just vanity.

I disagree. What about "Doctor"? Is it vanity if a medical professional has an issue with me suddenly referring to myself as "Doctor" and selling services under that guise?

Actually Doctor is an honorary title for the medical profession as their qualification is not a doctorate I.e. PHD.

ddraver

blazing_saddles said:

rick_chasey said:

So is it that women don't like the job, or is it that the culture is hostile to women?

Both parties have lost out there - someone who was a good worker and someone who wanted to work there.

pblakeney said:

The culture is hostile full stop.

Nowt to do with women, just what PB said.
By rule of thumb, the heavier the industry, the tougher the gig.

Was earwigging a conversation my Dad was having with his also-retired-colleagues recently when this gem came up

75% of medical students are now women.

The average age of retirement of women doctors is 32.

So...there actually is a bit of a problem building with this in many technical jobs...

rjsterry

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

I've worked in Engineering for 20years and I have genuinely never experienced a hostile environment.

I think there are some blurred lines here. Are we referring to fabricators, machinists, workshop technicians etc as "Engineers"?

We need another thread "non-trivial things which you find annoying" so I can suggest "hard-earned professional titles being devalued through unregulated use and unprotected status".

I can tell you that regulated use and protected status is not all it's cracked up to be.

No?

I would prefer it if the bloke who comes round to fix my washing machine wasn't referred to as an Engineer. And if he is an Engineer, then what is he doing earning a living under kitchen worktops?

No. It's just vanity.

I disagree. What about "Doctor"? Is it vanity if a medical professional has an issue with me suddenly referring to myself as "Doctor" and selling services under that guise?

Actual qualifications and expertise is one thing, but title protection doesn't work. It used to bother me but there are far more worthwhile things to get upset about.

surrey_commuter

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

TheBigBean said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

I've worked in Engineering for 20years and I have genuinely never experienced a hostile environment.

I think there are some blurred lines here. Are we referring to fabricators, machinists, workshop technicians etc as "Engineers"?

We need another thread "non-trivial things which you find annoying" so I can suggest "hard-earned professional titles being devalued through unregulated use and unprotected status".

I can tell you that regulated use and protected status is not all it's cracked up to be.

No?

I would prefer it if the bloke who comes round to fix my washing machine wasn't referred to as an Engineer. And if he is an Engineer, then what is he doing earning a living under kitchen worktops?

You want this annoyance to go in a non-trivial thread? At least that opinion is in the right thread.

I don't even bother to put my job title on my email. Judge me on the strength of what I say, not the strength of a random title.

My title reflects what I do. It's not a job title, it's a professional one: I'll be an Engineer after I retire.

Would you still pay your registration subs after you retired?

my old man still referred to himself as a Chartered Acct way after retirement and kept receiving trade mags so I am guessing he kept paying subs

He must have had a decent retirement income given how much it costs to stay in 'The Club'.

there is nowt as tight as a northern accountant so I can only think there were rates for retirees

Nothing wrong with that. Actually there probably are reduced rates for retirees but theres been no in point me looking yet

lol - he is a Manc so you probably see him as midlands

Jeremy.89

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

I've worked in Engineering for 20years and I have genuinely never experienced a hostile environment.

I think there are some blurred lines here. Are we referring to fabricators, machinists, workshop technicians etc as "Engineers"?

We need another thread "non-trivial things which you find annoying" so I can suggest "hard-earned professional titles being devalued through unregulated use and unprotected status".

I can tell you that regulated use and protected status is not all it's cracked up to be.

No?

I would prefer it if the bloke who comes round to fix my washing machine wasn't referred to as an Engineer. And if he is an Engineer, then what is he doing earning a living under kitchen worktops?

No. It's just vanity.

I disagree. What about "Doctor"? Is it vanity if a medical professional has an issue with me suddenly referring to myself as "Doctor" and selling services under that guise?

Actual qualifications and expertise is one thing, but title protection doesn't work. It used to bother me but there are far more worthwhile things to get upset about.

I think it's more that it feels like thr default picture when many people say engineer, is someone that comes round and installs your sky disk.

Whereas for doctor, it's not a nutritionist or chiropractor. (although it might be a surgeon, which opens up a whole other argument!)

Ben6899

First.Aspect said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

I've worked in Engineering for 20years and I have genuinely never experienced a hostile environment.

I think there are some blurred lines here. Are we referring to fabricators, machinists, workshop technicians etc as "Engineers"?

We need another thread "non-trivial things which you find annoying" so I can suggest "hard-earned professional titles being devalued through unregulated use and unprotected status".

I can tell you that regulated use and protected status is not all it's cracked up to be.

No?

I would prefer it if the bloke who comes round to fix my washing machine wasn't referred to as an Engineer. And if he is an Engineer, then what is he doing earning a living under kitchen worktops?

No. It's just vanity.

I disagree. What about "Doctor"? Is it vanity if a medical professional has an issue with me suddenly referring to myself as "Doctor" and selling services under that guise?

Chiropractors and homeopathists do it all the time.

Yeh and they're charlatans.

rjsterry

Jeremy.89 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

I've worked in Engineering for 20years and I have genuinely never experienced a hostile environment.

I think there are some blurred lines here. Are we referring to fabricators, machinists, workshop technicians etc as "Engineers"?

We need another thread "non-trivial things which you find annoying" so I can suggest "hard-earned professional titles being devalued through unregulated use and unprotected status".

I can tell you that regulated use and protected status is not all it's cracked up to be.

No?

I would prefer it if the bloke who comes round to fix my washing machine wasn't referred to as an Engineer. And if he is an Engineer, then what is he doing earning a living under kitchen worktops?

No. It's just vanity.

I disagree. What about "Doctor"? Is it vanity if a medical professional has an issue with me suddenly referring to myself as "Doctor" and selling services under that guise?

Actual qualifications and expertise is one thing, but title protection doesn't work. It used to bother me but there are far more worthwhile things to get upset about.

I think it's more that it feels like thr default picture when many people say engineer, is someone that comes round and installs your sky disk.

Whereas for doctor, it's not a nutritionist or chiropractor. (although it might be a surgeon, which opens up a whole other argument!)

Sure, it's annoying. The other legitimate use of my protected title is someone who designs golf courses. But it's not something that materially affects me.

TheBigBean

Jeremy.89 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

I've worked in Engineering for 20years and I have genuinely never experienced a hostile environment.

I think there are some blurred lines here. Are we referring to fabricators, machinists, workshop technicians etc as "Engineers"?

We need another thread "non-trivial things which you find annoying" so I can suggest "hard-earned professional titles being devalued through unregulated use and unprotected status".

I can tell you that regulated use and protected status is not all it's cracked up to be.

No?

I would prefer it if the bloke who comes round to fix my washing machine wasn't referred to as an Engineer. And if he is an Engineer, then what is he doing earning a living under kitchen worktops?

No. It's just vanity.

I disagree. What about "Doctor"? Is it vanity if a medical professional has an issue with me suddenly referring to myself as "Doctor" and selling services under that guise?

Actual qualifications and expertise is one thing, but title protection doesn't work. It used to bother me but there are far more worthwhile things to get upset about.

I think it's more that it feels like thr default picture when many people say engineer, is someone that comes round and installs your sky disk.

Whereas for doctor, it's not a nutritionist or chiropractor. (although it might be a surgeon, which opens up a whole other argument!)

It's not something I could get too upset by.

Stevo_666

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

TheBigBean said:

Ben6899 said:

rjsterry said:

Ben6899 said:

I've worked in Engineering for 20years and I have genuinely never experienced a hostile environment.

I think there are some blurred lines here. Are we referring to fabricators, machinists, workshop technicians etc as "Engineers"?

We need another thread "non-trivial things which you find annoying" so I can suggest "hard-earned professional titles being devalued through unregulated use and unprotected status".

I can tell you that regulated use and protected status is not all it's cracked up to be.

No?

I would prefer it if the bloke who comes round to fix my washing machine wasn't referred to as an Engineer. And if he is an Engineer, then what is he doing earning a living under kitchen worktops?

You want this annoyance to go in a non-trivial thread? At least that opinion is in the right thread.

I don't even bother to put my job title on my email. Judge me on the strength of what I say, not the strength of a random title.

My title reflects what I do. It's not a job title, it's a professional one: I'll be an Engineer after I retire.

Would you still pay your registration subs after you retired?

my old man still referred to himself as a Chartered Acct way after retirement and kept receiving trade mags so I am guessing he kept paying subs

He must have had a decent retirement income given how much it costs to stay in 'The Club'.

there is nowt as tight as a northern accountant so I can only think there were rates for retirees

Nothing wrong with that. Actually there probably are reduced rates for retirees but theres been no in point me looking yet

lol - he is a Manc so you probably see him as midlands

Bloody Southerners

ballysmate

My brother in law has a Phd in fluid dynamics and gets a bit, well a lot, annoyed by medical professionals not being real doctors. It also annoys him if he is not addressed correctly in correspondence.
Some people think this an easy way to bait him. Well at least one person does.

First.Aspect

ballysmate said:

My brother in law has a Phd in fluid dynamics and gets a bit, well a lot, annoyed by medical professionals not being real doctors. It also annoys him if he is not addressed correctly in correspondence.
Some people think this an easy way to bait him. Well at least one person does.

He needs to get over himself.

ballysmate

But where would the fun be in that?

nickice

I think Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is one of the most stupid people to ever be elected to the US congress.

DeVlaeminck

ddraver said:

blazing_saddles said:

rick_chasey said:

So is it that women don't like the job, or is it that the culture is hostile to women?

Both parties have lost out there - someone who was a good worker and someone who wanted to work there.

pblakeney said:

The culture is hostile full stop.

Nowt to do with women, just what PB said.
By rule of thumb, the heavier the industry, the tougher the gig.

Was earwigging a conversation my Dad was having with his also-retired-colleagues recently when this gem came up

75% of medical students are now women.

The average age of retirement of women doctors is 32.

So...there actually is a bit of a problem building with this in many technical jobs...

32 ? That can't be true.

A quick google suggests that it's almost certainly not - a study of medical graduates from 74-77 have similar retirement ages regardless of their sex - can't see why that group would be so untypical of the population.

DeVlaeminck

ballysmate said:

An indication of the standard of the women's world cup is the US team, who were head & shoulders above anyone else there, were beaten 5 -2 by Dallas U15s in 2017.

I've watched a few games where girls u16 academies (RTCs for those who know the system) play boys grassroots u15 teams and the boys win but it's not normally too much of an unbalanced game. The girls normally play better possession football but lose out 1v1 especially in both boxes. I've known girls play in decent grassroots boys teams up to u16 - that girl did go on to sign for Birmingham City - think she's now in the USA college system.

I'm surprised an u15s could beat the USA women but if it happened - certainly any semi pro mens side could beat them just through sheer pace and power but that normally hasn't fully kicked in at 14-15. It's the same in every sport isn't it though ? Women's football is actually a decent standard if you compare with other women's sports - big participation base and a lot of funding going in to coaching.

DeVlaeminck

First.Aspect said:

There's a lot of PCness about women's sport, which requires one to disregard the obvious.

There are other sports where, with the best will in the world, its just not as good to watch and never will be. Football, basketball, rugby, boxing. This is increasingly seen as sexist. It isn't. It merely acknowledges that men are on average larger, stronger, faster and make more noise when they fall down. Probably stupider as well so they'll run into things and break a bit more often. Makes good TV though.

It also doesn't help that a lot more men than women do pointless stuff like sport and also consider it something worth spending hours watching. .

OK maybe a bias as I coach a women's team but I think a lot of the lack of excitement comes from lack of a crowd which is largely a historical thing. Watching the Bundesliga in empty stadia was like watching paint dry - I much preffered watching the women's world cup because a) there was a crowd and b)I was more invested in it because England - Scotland - France etc means more to me than Dortmund - Hamburg - Bayern. In terms of pace, power, size and even skill the Bundesliga is ahead so that suggests to me entertainment and "quality" are only loosely related.

Re. the point about pitch sizes etc - I assume this is from Joey Barton's comments the other day? That assumes everything in the men's game is optimum - but pitches and goal frames were not designed in the era of super professional athletes, fast pitches, aerodynamic footballs, lightweight boots etc. I actually think it's the men's game that needs to change - either a bigger pitch or muddier pitch , slower ball (this would definitely help), or reduce the game to 10v10. The top players in the world have the skill to match the speed of play but below that - and I mean not far below - games are more like pinball now. I've seen womens games played on smallish pitches and believe me it doesn't make for a better game as nobody has time on the ball - faster isn't always better. I'd liken WSL to the men's game in the 70s.

In any case the issue is moot as we can't afford to create thousands of "women size" pitches.

blazing_saddles

The BBC's look back at the "best bits" of the Olympics, currently on BBC 1 (hosted, as is now usual, by two women) opened with Tokyo and virtually the first line of dialogue was: "80% of the team were men and 20% women.
What did they expect in 1964?

Anyhow to re-dress the 1964 sexism, 80% of the review has involved women's events and 20% men's.
With the BBC's sports coverage becoming more and more female dominated, it's lucky for us men we still have countless cookery and house makeover shows to watch.

surrey_commuter

DeVlaeminck said:

ddraver said:

blazing_saddles said:

rick_chasey said:

So is it that women don't like the job, or is it that the culture is hostile to women?

Both parties have lost out there - someone who was a good worker and someone who wanted to work there.

pblakeney said:

The culture is hostile full stop.

Nowt to do with women, just what PB said.
By rule of thumb, the heavier the industry, the tougher the gig.

Was earwigging a conversation my Dad was having with his also-retired-colleagues recently when this gem came up

75% of medical students are now women.

The average age of retirement of women doctors is 32.

So...there actually is a bit of a problem building with this in many technical jobs...

32 ? That can't be true.

A quick google suggests that it's almost certainly not - a study of medical graduates from 74-77 have similar retirement ages regardless of their sex - can't see why that group would be so untypical of the population.

You can not retire before 55 even if you build up the contributions to a level high enough to leave you a decent sum after reduction factors.