Edward Colston/Trans rights/Stamp collecting

surrey_commuter

rjsterry said:

I think the point is that contemporary documents refer to just Germany, but perhaps SC can provide more examples.

In The World at War in 1973 we were still fighting the Germans but I think the transition to fighting the Nazis was around that time

edited to add a link so you can see Germany invade Poland, I am assuming this was what gave the Nazis the idea.
It is in the first few mins, so worth listening as I find it really jars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHmxmUfekdQ

pblakeney

veronese68 said:

Wiiliam the Conqueror was a robot in disguise?

If it is the contemporary view, then, yes.

rjsterry

blazing_saddles said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

I find it amusing to present as contemporary view that the Battle of Hastings was won in 1232 and won by William of Orange.

😏 Could you show your workings?

I found the name William the Conqueror to be offensive.
And seeing how facts are fluid...

No question: It is offensive by society's current set of rules.
It has strong imperialist undertones and by definition is "someone who wins a country in war, in order to subdue or subjugate a people."

He definitely needs a more sensitive re-branding.
How does William the Transformer sound?

As a real world example, Alfred the Great was just plain Alfred until the 16th century, 600 years after he died. I await someone getting in a flap about rewriting history.

kingstongraham

I'm amazed that "The" was such a common middle name back in the day.

pblakeney

rjsterry said:

blazing_saddles said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

I find it amusing to present as contemporary view that the Battle of Hastings was won in 1232 and won by William of Orange.

😏 Could you show your workings?

I found the name William the Conqueror to be offensive.
And seeing how facts are fluid...

No question: It is offensive by society's current set of rules.
It has strong imperialist undertones and by definition is "someone who wins a country in war, in order to subdue or subjugate a people."

He definitely needs a more sensitive re-branding.
How does William the Transformer sound?

As a real world example, Alfred the Great was just plain Alfred until the 16th century, 600 years after he died. I await someone getting in a flap about rewriting history.

I remain hopeful that the extent of my achievements will one day be recognised, even if it takes 600 years. 😉
His name remained Alfred though.

rick_chasey

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

blazing_saddles said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

I find it amusing to present as contemporary view that the Battle of Hastings was won in 1232 and won by William of Orange.

😏 Could you show your workings?

I found the name William the Conqueror to be offensive.
And seeing how facts are fluid...

No question: It is offensive by society's current set of rules.
It has strong imperialist undertones and by definition is "someone who wins a country in war, in order to subdue or subjugate a people."

He definitely needs a more sensitive re-branding.
How does William the Transformer sound?

As a real world example, Alfred the Great was just plain Alfred until the 16th century, 600 years after he died. I await someone getting in a flap about rewriting history.

I remain hopeful that the extent of my achievements will one day be recognised, even if it takes 600 years. 😉
His name remained Alfred though.

Might have been different had he been called C*nt however.

pangolin

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

I think the point is that contemporary documents refer to just Germany, but perhaps SC can provide more examples.

In The World at War in 1973 we were still fighting the Germans but I think the transition to fighting the Nazis was around that time

edited to add a link so you can see Germany invade Poland, I am assuming this was what gave the Nazis the idea.
It is in the first few mins, so worth listening as I find it really jars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHmxmUfekdQ

12 mins in they are still talking about German tanks. When does it change?

Edit: Oh you mean this whole doc refers to Germans? I misunderstood if so.

surrey_commuter

pangolin said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

I think the point is that contemporary documents refer to just Germany, but perhaps SC can provide more examples.

In The World at War in 1973 we were still fighting the Germans but I think the transition to fighting the Nazis was around that time

edited to add a link so you can see Germany invade Poland, I am assuming this was what gave the Nazis the idea.
It is in the first few mins, so worth listening as I find it really jars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHmxmUfekdQ

12 mins in they are still talking about German tanks. When does it change?

keep going, has to be the best documentary ever made, the quality of the interviewees, from both sides, is staggering

veronese68

surrey_commuter said:

edited to add a link so you can see Germany invade Poland, I am assuming this was what gave the Nazis the idea.

Eh? That clip of the Germans invading Poland gave the Nazis the idea of invading Poland.
Talk about rewriting history...

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

blazing_saddles said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

I find it amusing to present as contemporary view that the Battle of Hastings was won in 1232 and won by William of Orange.

😏 Could you show your workings?

I found the name William the Conqueror to be offensive.
And seeing how facts are fluid...

No question: It is offensive by society's current set of rules.
It has strong imperialist undertones and by definition is "someone who wins a country in war, in order to subdue or subjugate a people."

He definitely needs a more sensitive re-branding.
How does William the Transformer sound?

As a real world example, Alfred the Great was just plain Alfred until the 16th century, 600 years after he died. I await someone getting in a flap about rewriting history.

I remain hopeful that the extent of my achievements will one day be recognised, even if it takes 600 years. 😉
His name remained Alfred though.

Might have been different had he been called C*nt however.

Wasn’t he the silly one commanding the tide? 😉

surrey_commuter

veronese68 said:

surrey_commuter said:

edited to add a link so you can see Germany invade Poland, I am assuming this was what gave the Nazis the idea.

Eh? That clip of the Germans invading Poland gave the Nazis the idea of invading Poland.
Talk about rewriting history...

They must have watched the clip, unless they were stood on the border with binoculars how else would they have known, there was no social media in those days?

veronese68

surrey_commuter said:

veronese68 said:

surrey_commuter said:

edited to add a link so you can see Germany invade Poland, I am assuming this was what gave the Nazis the idea.

Eh? That clip of the Germans invading Poland gave the Nazis the idea of invading Poland.
Talk about rewriting history...

They must have watched the clip, unless they were stood on the border with binoculars how else would they have known, there was no social media in those days?

I thought Thames television was only in the London area, their spies must have seen it.

blazing_saddles

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

blazing_saddles said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

I find it amusing to present as contemporary view that the Battle of Hastings was won in 1232 and won by William of Orange.

😏 Could you show your workings?

I found the name William the Conqueror to be offensive.
And seeing how facts are fluid...

No question: It is offensive by society's current set of rules.
It has strong imperialist undertones and by definition is "someone who wins a country in war, in order to subdue or subjugate a people."

He definitely needs a more sensitive re-branding.
How does William the Transformer sound?

As a real world example, Alfred the Great was just plain Alfred until the 16th century, 600 years after he died. I await someone getting in a flap about rewriting history.

I remain hopeful that the extent of my achievements will one day be recognised, even if it takes 600 years. 😉
His name remained Alfred though.

Might have been different had he been called C*nt however.

If this chap has any nieces or nephews he's another in line to have his name changed for him.

surrey_commuter

veronese68 said:

surrey_commuter said:

veronese68 said:

surrey_commuter said:

edited to add a link so you can see Germany invade Poland, I am assuming this was what gave the Nazis the idea.

Eh? That clip of the Germans invading Poland gave the Nazis the idea of invading Poland.
Talk about rewriting history...

They must have watched the clip, unless they were stood on the border with binoculars how else would they have known, there was no social media in those days?

I thought Thames television was only in the London area, their spies must have seen it.

I lived in London for several years before somebody pointed out the relationship between LWT and Thames

veronese68

surrey_commuter said:

veronese68 said:

surrey_commuter said:

veronese68 said:

surrey_commuter said:

edited to add a link so you can see Germany invade Poland, I am assuming this was what gave the Nazis the idea.

Eh? That clip of the Germans invading Poland gave the Nazis the idea of invading Poland.
Talk about rewriting history...

They must have watched the clip, unless they were stood on the border with binoculars how else would they have known, there was no social media in those days?

I thought Thames television was only in the London area, their spies must have seen it.

I lived in London for several years before somebody pointed out the relationship between LWT and Thames

That hand over on a Friday evening was a bit strange.
Once was with a mate that had to deliver some tapes urgently to the Thames TV building, but we made a diversion to pick up a motorbike I'd bought and he got in trouble because the tapes only just got there in time. That was a very long time ago and only a vague recollection so in the spirit of this thread I may be rewriting history.

tailwindhome

pblakeney said:

Revisionist history at it's worst.

Not really though

ballysmate

Back to slavery. An interesting piece from a Nigerian author.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/personal-history/my-great-grandfather-the-nigerian-slave-trader

I don't expect for one minute that the people who think that the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the sons are as aware, as this woman is, of her family's history.

rick_chasey

ballysmate said:

Back to slavery. An interesting piece from a Nigerian author.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/personal-history/my-great-grandfather-the-nigerian-slave-trader

I don't expect for one minute that the people who think that the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the sons are as aware, as this woman is, of her family's history.

What point are you trying to prove here?

blazing_saddles

rick_chasey said:

ballysmate said:

Back to slavery. An interesting piece from a Nigerian author.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/personal-history/my-great-grandfather-the-nigerian-slave-trader

I don't expect for one minute that the people who think that the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the sons are as aware, as this woman is, of her family's history.

What point are you trying to prove here?

rick_chasey said:

ballysmate said:

Back to slavery. An interesting piece from a Nigerian author.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/personal-history/my-great-grandfather-the-nigerian-slave-trader

I don't expect for one minute that the people who think that the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the sons are as aware, as this woman is, of her family's history.

What point are you trying to prove here?

Mmmm that Igbo homes wouldn't make for great Airbnb stays unless you don't mind who you share with?

Rick, I always find that actually reading the supplied link is a good way to find out what point was being made.
This ignore anything you know you won't agree with and lazily respond with another question, instead of an answer, tends to make folks think you don't have an answer.

I am sure you do have an answer, but if it's too much trouble, why not just not respond?

blazing_saddles

ballysmate said:

Back to slavery. An interesting piece from a Nigerian author.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/personal-history/my-great-grandfather-the-nigerian-slave-trader

I don't expect for one minute that the people who think that the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the sons are as aware, as this woman is, of her family's history.

Thanks for the link.
I had previously read a little about the chronology of slavery in Africa and this article confirms when Trans Atlantic slavery began. Not surprising that it was down to the Portuguese and Spanish in the 15th century.

Hard to believe that it was still going on in Nigeria during the 1940s though.

rjsterry

ballysmate said:

Back to slavery. An interesting piece from a Nigerian author.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/personal-history/my-great-grandfather-the-nigerian-slave-trader

I don't expect for one minute that the people who think that the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the sons are as aware, as this woman is, of her family's history.

Very interesting article. Rather gives the lie to the idea that things that happened a century or more ago don't matter any more.

TheBigBean

The article requires me to register. Did you all do that?

rjsterry

Nope.

pblakeney

TheBigBean said:

The article requires me to register. Did you all do that?

There is also this report which I will presume to be similar.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-53444752

rjsterry

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

The article requires me to register. Did you all do that?

There is also this report which I will presume to be similar.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-53444752

Similar but it misses out a key point: the legacy of slavery is still being directly felt today, with those descended from slaves - given slavery continued in Nigeria until the 1940s this is only 2 or 3 generations back - still viewed as a lesser group within Nigerian society. Their status is seen as a reflection of whatever actions their ancestors committed that led to their enslavement.

The author of the New Yorker article remembers being told as a child not to associate with a girl she had befriended who happened to be descended from one of her great grandfather's slaves.

veronese68

I think Mauritania was the last country to abolish slavery some time in the 80s, checking my facts I discovered it wasn't actually illegal until 2007! But it has been accepted throughout this thread that it wasn't only whites involved in the slave trade.
But I think it's fair to say most slaves in the first world were black and most slave owners were white. That is the backdrop to what went on and explains why a lot of people feel the way they do.

TheBigBean

It works on my mobile for some reason.

Bit disappointed. I find the spiritual stuff far too accepted in Africa and sometimes wish it was criticised more. For example I was told that my "brother had died" , when I asked what had happened I was simply told that "the spirit of the river takes someone every year" . I presume this all meant someone white had drowned.

Otherwise, it is good that the role of African slave traders is starting to be analysed. I think most of the history written has an element of Gone With the Wind about it -I.e. but we were nice to our slaves. Perhaps it is true.

The discrimination based on caste is sadly prevalent in many countries. I had one woman once tell me that I should be careful going somewhere as they were much darker. This did spark a lively debate among the locals about racism though which I suppose is progress.

coopster_the_1st

https://twitter.com/ryanlongcomedy/status/1285208497517473793

The trigger list will be a long one

coopster_the_1st

coopster_the_1st said:

https://twitter.com/ryanlongcomedy/status/1285208497517473793

The trigger list will be a long one

Woke: "Black people should only shop in black owned shops"

Racist: "I've been saying this all along"

ballysmate

Muhammad Ali obviously never got the 'Woke' memo.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/editorials/2016/06/07/civil-rights-champion-muhammad-ali-was-anything-but/En45jgnZU2ukPf7GA0IgrL/story.html