Pro cyclists are overrated?

zest28
zest28 Posts: 403
edited April 2020 in Pro race
There was an interesting race last weekend. An iron athlete against pro cyclists like Matieu van der poel.

The Iron man athlete was the big underdog since iron man athlete are not trained for short and explosive races. But the iron man athlete figured that he has better endurance than everybody else, so he decided to attack early and ride solo till the end of the finish. And that is exactly what he did. The group behind him who were drafting each other was not able to catch him.

Now I know that a top-class world tour rider like Chris Froome had a FTP of 460 watts in his prime. So the iron man athlete would have his a** kicked by Froome.

But here is the thing. The iron man athlete can ride as fast as a pro cyclist. But the pro cyclists cannot swim or run marathons as fast as an iron man athlete.

So overall, iron man athletes are simply superior athletes I would say by a big margin.
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Comments

  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,404
    Keep on trucking....
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • zest28
    zest28 Posts: 403
    edited April 2020
    Well, you do not expect someone from an other sport absolutely dominating pro-cyclists (it was not even close).

    And Matieu van der poel is no joke. He is the most powerful pro-cyclist in the world right now judging by how he won the Amstel Gold last year.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited April 2020
    zest28 said:

    There was an interesting race last weekend. An iron athlete against pro cyclists like Matieu van der poel.

    The Iron man athlete was the big underdog since iron man athlete are not trained for short and explosive races. But the iron man athlete figured that he has better endurance than everybody else, so he decided to attack early and ride solo till the end of the finish. And that is exactly what he did. The group behind him who were drafting each other was not able to catch him.

    Now I know that a top-class world tour rider like Chris Froome had a FTP of 460 watts in his prime. So the iron man athlete would have his a** kicked by Froome.

    But here is the thing. The iron man athlete can ride as fast as a pro cyclist. But the pro cyclists cannot swim or run marathons as fast as an iron man athlete.

    So overall, iron man athletes are simply superior athletes I would say by a big margin.

    If this were true a lot of them would jack in the Iron Man and make some proper money cycling.

    Alas, they don't, because it isn't.
    _
  • zest28
    zest28 Posts: 403
    edited April 2020
    Considering that his net worth is $9 million, I am pretty sure he is financially better off than most pro-cyclists (who do not even earn much money).

    His FTP is around 380 watts which is pro-level in cycling (I know pro cyclists on big world tour teams who have this type of power. Some pro’s even have less power than this).
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
    If 27kms
    rick_chasey said:

    zest28 said:

    There was an interesting race last weekend. An iron athlete against pro cyclists like Matieu van der poel.

    The Iron man athlete was the big underdog since iron man athlete are not trained for short and explosive races. But the iron man athlete figured that he has better endurance than everybody else, so he decided to attack early and ride solo till the end of the finish. And that is exactly what he did. The group behind him who were drafting each other was not able to catch him.

    Now I know that a top-class world tour rider like Chris Froome had a FTP of 460 watts in his prime. So the iron man athlete would have his a** kicked by Froome.

    But here is the thing. The iron man athlete can ride as fast as a pro cyclist. But the pro cyclists cannot swim or run marathons as fast as an iron man athlete.

    So overall, iron man athletes are simply superior athletes I would say by a big margin.

    If this were true a lot of them would jack in the Iron Man and make some proper money cycling.

    Alas, they don't, because it isn't.
    Perhaps they would if proper bike races were 27kms long.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • zest28
    zest28 Posts: 403
    edited April 2020
    You realize that short distance races is actually a huge advantage for pro cyclists as they train for break-aways, surges, short-punchy climbs and sprints. You will never see an iron man athlete whip out 1300 watts for 1 minute as this is what pro-cyclists are trained for.

    Iron man athletes are trained to do 310 watts over a 180km distance at 41 km/h solo while still having enough energy left to perform a full marathon run afterwards. It is long *ss distances were an iron man athlete would be in the advantage.

    To give a bit of perspective how pro cyclists race 160km in groups, they only push 180 watts most of the time due to drafting. Pro cyclist do not push as many watts as an iron man athlete during a stage as a result of riding in the peleton.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    so who was this iron man athlete and what race last weekend was this ? All racing has been cancelled because of corona virus, so this doesnt even sound true to me
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,568
    Cameron Wurf disproves your theory. Very average pro, above average Ironman triathlete.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,297
    edited April 2020
    Are discussing short punchy races like Amstel Gold or Milan San Remo?

    Is that the same as a short punchy climb like the last 500m of Ventoux?
  • zest28
    zest28 Posts: 403
    edited April 2020
    It was a virtual race were many pro-cyclists joined.

    To give you a perspective how good his solo ride was and why the peleton could not catch him.

    The fastest pro-cyclist in the world is Ganna @ Team Ineos / Sky. His 4 minute effort at 61km/h is a little above 600 Watts.

    The Iron man athlete did 535 Watts for 5 minutes. That is quite insane for someone who is not a pro-cyclist and an ultra endurance athlete (think about 9 hour races he needs to do)

    You might discredit because it was a virtual race, but Watts = Watts.

    Sure, the very best of the pro-cyclist would destroy the iron man athlete. But they cannot run marathons and swim as good like he does :p
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,592
    Presumably a virtual race with all the inconsistencies that brings.
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    I recently discovered that I can cycle faster off road than a German Shepherd dog can run, at least for the 50m or so it took to reach the nearest cattle grid.
  • zest28
    zest28 Posts: 403
    edited April 2020
    Dorset_Boy said:

    Presumably a virtual race with all the inconsistencies that brings.

    He does Iron man solo at 41 km/h over a distance of 180km @ 310 Watts in the real world (despite conserving a lot of power for his marathon run he needs to do afterwards)

    That is the same speed pro-riders do in the Tour while they are drafting eachother (which requires much less effort)

    So his power numbers are legit.
  • aberdeen_lune
    aberdeen_lune Posts: 547
    Virtual races tell you nothing. Anyone with more than one power meter will understand that a watt is not a watt and that’s before you even look at smart turbo trainer watts.
    People love to speak about power numbers but the real test is out on the road.
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    zest28 said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Presumably a virtual race with all the inconsistencies that brings.

    He does Iron man solo at 41 km/h over a distance of 180km @ 310 Watts in the real world (despite conserving a lot of power for his marathon run he needs to do afterwards)

    That is the same speed pro-riders do in the Tour while they are drafting eachother (which requires much less effort)

    So his power numbers are legit.
    Do you also believe 5G causes Coronavirus.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    Exactly as Aberdeen said. Virtual means nothing, I can put out more watts that a pro, doesn’t mean Bora are going to sign me.

    What virtual race was this, what platform , what distance and who exactly were the riders ?

    Racing is more than just watts. Contador used to do attacks early put out loads of watts and then get caught and lose time
  • zest28
    zest28 Posts: 403
    edited April 2020
    He uses the Wahoo Kickr, which is pretty much the best smart trainer you can buy.

    Even Team Sky / Ineos rely on it for training, so the power reading must be very accurate. Else guys like Froome and Thomas would be training in the wrong zones.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,297
    World class pro athlete in nearly as good at something as other world class pro athletes shocker.

    You'll be telling us he can run nearly as fast as a runner next.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,252
    Lance A started as a triathlete and went back to it after, you know. Superman Lance as it were. Better ring to it than Superman Lopez?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,259
    edited April 2020
    Lance Armstrong, who knows a bit about triathlon, has repeated said that Richie Porte would win the Ironman Hawaii if he put his mind to it.

    The half ironman World Champion in the 45-49 age group is Alexandre Vinokourov.
    The runner-up in the 50-54 age group in the Ironman Hawaii was Laurent Jalabert
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • zest28
    zest28 Posts: 403
    edited April 2020
    Sure, could be possible. The fastest cyclist in Iron man is actually an ex-pro cyclist. But he sucks in running, so he will never win the world championship.

    If Richie can run and swim fast enough to hold on the advantage he creates during the cycling phase, he could win it.

    But some of the Iron man guys are crazy fast runners though. So it will be though for Richie to pull it off.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,404
    I have a sneaky suspicion that Zesty might just be a triathlete.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,707
    He's certainly got a hard on for this Ironman...

    Virtual race = not a real race
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • zest28
    zest28 Posts: 403
    edited April 2020
    pblakeney said:

    I have a sneaky suspicion that Zesty might just be a triathlete.

    I do both (amateur) road racing and triathlon, except for this year.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    zest28 said:

    He uses the Wahoo Kickr, which is pretty much the best smart trainer you can buy.

    Even Team Sky / Ineos rely on it for training, so the power reading must be very accurate. Else guys like Froome and Thomas would be training in the wrong zones.

    zest28 said:

    He uses the Wahoo Kickr, which is pretty much the best smart trainer you can buy.

    Even Team Sky / Ineos rely on it for training, so the power reading must be very accurate. Else guys like Froome and Thomas would be training in the wrong zones.

    zest28 said:

    He uses the Wahoo Kickr, which is pretty much the best smart trainer you can buy.

    Even Team Sky / Ineos rely on it for training, so the power reading must be very accurate. Else guys like Froome and Thomas would be training in the wrong zones.

    So what platform was this, and why not just post a link to the results

    Can he produce the same numbers for 21 days in a row ?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,259
    edited April 2020
    Let's bring some facts to this.

    1. The Ironman was Lionel Sanders, a former runner-up in Kona, so no mug

    2. The race was three laps of the Richmond Worlds course - 27.8km

    3. Van der Poel was just there because of the sponsors. He sat up after 7km

    4. Sanders attacked with about 9km to go using an 'Invisibility power-up' which makes him invisible for ten seconds. Only Haimar Zubeldia gets to use those in real racing.

    5. Three other riders bridged across. By his own admission Sanders wheelsucked a lot in that group, which only had one pro cyclist (from Alpacin)

    6. He used another power-up to get away in the last 2km.

    7. The peloton almost caught him on the line. I haven't heard of any of the top ten (all Zwift racers apparently)

    8. The peloton included Maurizio Fondriest who is 55.

    9. The graphics were better than for the van Avermaet race.

    The video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s53oS6IHlbM
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,707
    It astounds me how people take that...sugar...seriously...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,252
    Power up? Can I buy that from SiS?

    Or is this GrandTheftAuto?
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,707
    It depends what colour bar tape you have but if you press your gear levers twice, squeeze the brake levers and press X on your garmin your bike develops a rocket under the saddle for 10 seconds too...

    Was that not in your manual?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    My head is now stuck with an image of Pacman chasing down cyclists and munching them

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