Pro cyclists are overrated?

24

Comments

  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,290

    My head is now stuck with an image of Pacman chasing down cyclists and munching them

    You are showing your age.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 39,827
    orraloon said:

    Power up? Can I buy that from SiS?

    Or is this GrandTheftAuto?

    It's what Sky had in the mysterious jiffy bag.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 39,827
    RichN95. said:

    Let's bring some facts to this.

    1. The Ironman was Lionel Sanders, a former runner-up in Kona, so no mug

    2. The race was three laps of the Richmond Worlds course - 27.8km

    3. Van der Poel was just there because of the sponsors. He sat up after 7km

    4. Sanders attacked with about 9km to go using an 'Invisibility power-up' which makes him invisible for ten seconds. Only Haimar Zubeldia gets to use those in real racing.

    5. Three other riders bridged across. By his own admission Sanders wheelsucked a lot in that group, which only had one pro cyclist (from Alpacin)

    6. He used another power-up to get away in the last 2km.

    7. The peloton almost caught him on the line. I haven't heard of any of the top ten (all Zwift racers apparently)

    8. The peloton included Maurizio Fondriest who is 55.

    9. The graphics were better than for the van Avermaet race.

    The video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s53oS6IHlbM

    Stop with the context and facts will you?

    The other issue is you don't have to turn corners in virtual cycling, that's where triathletes tend to run into problems.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 39,827
    pblakeney said:

    I have a sneaky suspicion that Zesty might just be a troll.

    FTFY
  • twotoebenny
    twotoebenny Posts: 1,398
    Love the Zubeldia line 👏🏻
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,414
    zest28 said:


    If Richie can run and swim fast enough to hold on the advantage he creates during the cycling phase, he could win it.

    What advantage? He's only a pro cyclist so would be somewhere near last on the bike. Zwift said so.

    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,222
    Pross said:

    pblakeney said:

    I have a sneaky suspicion that Zesty might just be a troll.

    FTFY
    Yeah. I got that. See the first reply. 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    Thanks for the info Rich, seems to have shut the OP up
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    Is Lionel Sanders the guy who trains exclusively on the turbo ? Fantastic athlete but can he ride in a bunch ?
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,707
    Where does Lionel Sanders get $9m from ? Are sponsorship deals that big as that seemed a lot of money and googling what top triathletes earn confirms that seems way over the top - yes I know if you Google his net worth that figure comes up but I'd need convincing.

    Still he sounds like he has an interesting story - addicted to drugs to top endurance athlete - I'm sure he's v.good at what he does and the best cyclists in triathlon probably could have been pro cyclists in different circumstances.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 71,577
    Yeah I can see why Armstrong jacked in his tri career to be a pro-cyclist.

    All that money he lost out on, what a mug.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    OP seems to enjoy starting such controversial threads, some would class these as trolling...

    Anyway, op, where is the data for this apparent race? How do you know VdP was going flat out? How do you know his form?? I was only reading yesterday how little training many of the pros are doing during lockdown.

    Thing is, even if they were both at the peak of fitness, you still can't compare. Pro cyclists are generally regarded as the fittest athletes on the planet, not just because of the distances and speeds they do, but how they recover and do it day in day out for up to 3 weeks.

    No-one is dismissing the fitness needed for ironman, however, it's a one off event, with plenty of rest days available in between events. That makes a huge difference.

    A single race, specifically over a short distance, is just a one off and like any sporting event I think you can get surprises. Hell, I bet there are a few BR members who could put up a challenge against a pro over 20 miles or so. Doesn't mean they are fitter or more talented though.

  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,190
    I mean if you didn't feed the troll it wouldn't really be a trolling thread would it.

    There's nothing wrong with Zwift races, including powerups, as a race or a bit of fun but they're obviously not comparable to races outdoors.

    The debate about which athletes are fitter or whatever depends what terms you choose to use to define fitness. Remember that crossfit claims its athletes are the "fittest" in the world too - and according to their definition of "fitness", it's probably true. They'd get pounded in a proper bike race though.
  • What a joke thread!

    Oh and to answer original question - no.
  • poptart242
    poptart242 Posts: 531
    My favourite bit of this thread was where he pointed out that if Richie Porte ran fast enough and swam fast enough and biked fast enough, he'd win a race where the aim is to do these things.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 25,960
    Power ups are the worst thing about Zwift. I like Zwift, but invisibility, extra drafting and being able to stop other people drafting off you is absolute w4nk.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 25,960
    Although to be fair, that was a much better watch than the Flanders one. It seems to just work better.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    If this sort of thing actually entertains you, I could post a screenshot video of me playing minesweeper...
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,190

    Power ups are the worst thing about Zwift. I like Zwift, but invisibility, extra drafting and being able to stop other people drafting off you is absolute w4nk.

    It depends if you think the aim should be to replicate a real road race as accurately as possible, or to create an online gaming experience which is fun.

    Given the amount of restrictions (bike handling, weather, road surfaces etc.) for making it just like a real road race, I'd suggest it's fairly pointless to try.

    But then I am probably younger than most of you and play video games fairly often, so the idea of pedal powered Mario Kart actually doesn't sound that bad to me.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,190

    If this sort of thing actually entertains you, I could post a screenshot video of me playing minesweeper...

    Many non-cycling fans would say the same about watching grand tours. Same goes for cricket, F1 etc.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,190

    Power ups are the worst thing about Zwift. I like Zwift, but invisibility, extra drafting and being able to stop other people drafting off you is absolute w4nk.

    It depends if you think the aim should be to replicate a real road race as accurately as possible, or to create an online gaming experience which is fun.

    Given the amount of restrictions (bike handling, weather, road surfaces etc.) for making it just like a real road race, I'd suggest it's fairly pointless to try.

    But then I am probably younger than most of you and play video games fairly often, so the idea of pedal powered Mario Kart actually doesn't sound that bad to me.
    Should also note that there are plenty of races on there where power ups are disabled (there is a very dense racing calendar), if you want to avoid them. It's up to the race organiser to set the rules.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 25,960

    Power ups are the worst thing about Zwift. I like Zwift, but invisibility, extra drafting and being able to stop other people drafting off you is absolute w4nk.

    It depends if you think the aim should be to replicate a real road race as accurately as possible, or to create an online gaming experience which is fun.

    Given the amount of restrictions (bike handling, weather, road surfaces etc.) for making it just like a real road race, I'd suggest it's fairly pointless to try.

    But then I am probably younger than most of you and play video games fairly often, so the idea of pedal powered Mario Kart actually doesn't sound that bad to me.
    Should also note that there are plenty of races on there where power ups are disabled (there is a very dense racing calendar), if you want to avoid them. It's up to the race organiser to set the rules.
    That relies on my being organised enough to know what race I'm going to join before I hop on the bike.

    I know it's not supposed to be like a road race, but when they have gone to such lengths to stress how the power relates to speed as accurately as they can, and the reduced drag from drafting is calculated as best they can, to then throw in something that reduces your weight for a while seems pointless. Doesn't do it for me, but am glad there are others who it might get them on their bike more.
  • andyrac
    andyrac Posts: 1,119
    Could said Ironman beat MvdP in a real XCO or CX race?? I think not.....

    Unsurprisingly, real world & virtual cycling are different.....
    All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 25,960

    If this sort of thing actually entertains you, I could post a screenshot video of me playing minesweeper...

    Put it on twitch, see how it pans out.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,190

    Power ups are the worst thing about Zwift. I like Zwift, but invisibility, extra drafting and being able to stop other people drafting off you is absolute w4nk.

    It depends if you think the aim should be to replicate a real road race as accurately as possible, or to create an online gaming experience which is fun.

    Given the amount of restrictions (bike handling, weather, road surfaces etc.) for making it just like a real road race, I'd suggest it's fairly pointless to try.

    But then I am probably younger than most of you and play video games fairly often, so the idea of pedal powered Mario Kart actually doesn't sound that bad to me.
    Should also note that there are plenty of races on there where power ups are disabled (there is a very dense racing calendar), if you want to avoid them. It's up to the race organiser to set the rules.
    That relies on my being organised enough to know what race I'm going to join before I hop on the bike.

    I know it's not supposed to be like a road race, but when they have gone to such lengths to stress how the power relates to speed as accurately as they can, and the reduced drag from drafting is calculated as best they can, to then throw in something that reduces your weight for a while seems pointless. Doesn't do it for me, but am glad there are others who it might get them on their bike more.
    Well the bigger problem with that for me (far bigger) is the categorisation system which is pure BS...

    It's entirely honesty based and you can enter yourself into any category, supposedly based on your w/kg. Zwiftpower (fan website which corrects for sandbaggers etc) says I am a B but it is completely impossible for me to actually win a C or D race in game* due to the number of people entering the wrong category - on the last one I did I checked the Ds (supposed to be up to 2.4 w/kg) and the top 10 all did 4.5 w/kg (was actually worse than the Cs I was in).

    I'd suggest this has a far bigger impact on most people's enjoyment of the game than a few power ups which work for like 10 seconds.

    Apparently they are changing the category system at some point though. Whether it'll be a conventional points based system or something else I don't know.

    *(as in cross the line first - I might get bumped to a winning position on zwiftpower later)
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 25,960
    So you are a B, and you don't like the fact you can't win the C races you enter, because of all the people who drop down a category.

    But yes, I agree with you - last race I was in, I came 7th in the B, would have come 8th in the C race, and 6th in the D, I think. Something like that.

  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 25,960
    (But that doesn't bother me much, because I really don't care where I finish, just that I get a decent workout. Working to stay in a group at about the right level does that for me, whether that means I'm 5th or 25th.)
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,190

    So you are a B, and you don't like the fact you can't win the C races you enter, because of all the people who drop down a category.

    But yes, I agree with you - last race I was in, I came 7th in the B, would have come 8th in the C race, and 6th in the D, I think. Something like that.

    I'm fairly borderline, as my FTP has been going up and I've lost weight - this is new for me :)

    So far I've not been DQ'd on Zwiftpower for being over the C limit I don't think, and that is very common - the last one I did I came 72/199 on the road and bumped to 30th after eliminating sandbaggers. The problem with that is it happens after the fact and half the people racing on Zwift don't look or care about it. ZP just suggests the category based on your previous race efforts.

    I get what you mean about the workout, it definitely is good for that. I've been subbing my trainerroad VO2 ones for Zwift races, which is a harder workout. In terms of effort is much closer to the Tuesday/Thursday chaingangs I used to ride.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 39,827
    I came 51st out of 75 in my first race last week on the Zwiftpower results for Crit City. I raced in Cat C and average about 2.9w/kg for the 25 minutes which is around my FTP. The winners were up at over 4 w/kg. My time would have got me 6th in Cat D though you obviously can't work out what would have really happened. I'm doing a hilly one tomorrow so my weight will be more of a handicap and I'm going to drop down to D for that.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,190
    4 w/kg in C should be starting to look at DQs in Zwiftpower - it's the lower threshold for A...

    I have noticed that the final results don't settle out for quite a long time though, not sure how it works.