The big Coronavirus thread
Comments
-
Pretty sure TWH was referring to the idea of removing all restrictions in one go.Longshot said:tailwindhome said:
Absolutely no one is suggesting that.Longshot said:pangolin said:
It's just such glib nonsense isn't it. Oh we need to end the lock down but yes of course protect the vulnerable. Lets end the lock down but of course whilst protecting the NHS too. It makes no sense.tailwindhome said:There's a big question to be asked of the people suggesting we end the lockdown and shield the elderly and vulnerable if we can't shield them during lockdown
It makes about as much sense as suggesting we can keep this lockdown going for 6-12 months.
So what are you suggesting then? You were belittling the idea of ending the lockdown - you didn't specify anything more.
I would suggest that the idea that there is a way that all businesses can be saved is as mistaken as the idea that we could keep Covid-19 deaths below 20,000. Very simplistically, businesses that require close social contact are unfortunately the 'equivalent' of the over-70s and those with underlying health conditions.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
In the same way folk are saying "you need to accept lots of people are going to die" I think people need to recognise that this is going to be deeply damaging for an economy and there is only so much you can do.
Lifting things before it is safe to do so won't help any economic recovery either.
You can look at all the proper global pandemics in the past and it is always the same - places with the most deaths do the worst; sometimes changing the entire direction of a place's prosperity forever.
I would be shocked if America comes out of this as powerful as it went in. It is hard to take a superpower seriously if it literally cannot look after its own people and is comfortable for thousands to needlessly die (and it elects leaders who suggest injecting disinfectant.)0 -
Lockdown is not the same as social distancing. A lot of the effects will be the same, true. Get used to it.bradsbeard said:
What is the suggestion then?tailwindhome said:
Absolutely no one is suggesting that.Longshot said:pangolin said:
It's just such glib nonsense isn't it. Oh we need to end the lock down but yes of course protect the vulnerable. Lets end the lock down but of course whilst protecting the NHS too. It makes no sense.tailwindhome said:There's a big question to be asked of the people suggesting we end the lockdown and shield the elderly and vulnerable if we can't shield them during lockdown
It makes about as much sense as suggesting we can keep this lockdown going for 6-12 months.
I see Hancock saying hairdressers and barbers won’t open for at least another 6 months.
There is no way most of these businesses will survive that king shut down.
I know one barber already gone to the wall.
The ratio of small businesses failing if social distancing were to to be 18 months would be phenomenal.
All then a cost to the government.
I'd expect your barbers to be among the first to open, with them effectively wearing hazmat suits and having no waiting area. Purely because the misery of people not being able to have hairdressing will become so large.0 -
Pretty sure Britain has a few more months lockdown in it.0 -
If other countries manage to achieve what New Zealand and Australia look like they might - how likely will they want people from the USA arriving if the disease is endemic there?rick_chasey said:In the same way folk are saying "you need to accept lots of people are going to die" I think people need to recognise that this is going to be deeply damaging for an economy and there is only so much you can do.
Lifting things before it is safe to do so won't help any economic recovery either.
You can look at all the proper global pandemics in the past and it is always the same - places with the most deaths do the worst; sometimes changing the entire direction of a place's prosperity forever.
I would be shocked if America comes out of this as powerful as it went in. It is hard to take a superpower seriously if it literally cannot look after its own people and is comfortable for thousands to needlessly die (and it elects leaders who suggest injecting disinfectant.)0 -
Didn't someone post some guidelines for barbers from the US the other day? They looked difficult, but not impossible to stick to.kingstongraham said:
Lockdown is not the same as social distancing. A lot of the effects will be the same, true. Get used to it.bradsbeard said:
What is the suggestion then?tailwindhome said:
Absolutely no one is suggesting that.Longshot said:pangolin said:
It's just such glib nonsense isn't it. Oh we need to end the lock down but yes of course protect the vulnerable. Lets end the lock down but of course whilst protecting the NHS too. It makes no sense.tailwindhome said:There's a big question to be asked of the people suggesting we end the lockdown and shield the elderly and vulnerable if we can't shield them during lockdown
It makes about as much sense as suggesting we can keep this lockdown going for 6-12 months.
I see Hancock saying hairdressers and barbers won’t open for at least another 6 months.
There is no way most of these businesses will survive that king shut down.
I know one barber already gone to the wall.
The ratio of small businesses failing if social distancing were to to be 18 months would be phenomenal.
All then a cost to the government.
I'd expect your barbers to be among the first to open, with them effectively wearing hazmat suits and having no waiting area. Purely because the misery of people not being able to have hairdressing will become so large.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
rjsterry said:
Didn't someone post some guidelines for barbers from the US the other day? They looked difficult, but not impossible to stick to.kingstongraham said:
Lockdown is not the same as social distancing. A lot of the effects will be the same, true. Get used to it.bradsbeard said:
What is the suggestion then?tailwindhome said:
Absolutely no one is suggesting that.Longshot said:pangolin said:
It's just such glib nonsense isn't it. Oh we need to end the lock down but yes of course protect the vulnerable. Lets end the lock down but of course whilst protecting the NHS too. It makes no sense.tailwindhome said:There's a big question to be asked of the people suggesting we end the lockdown and shield the elderly and vulnerable if we can't shield them during lockdown
It makes about as much sense as suggesting we can keep this lockdown going for 6-12 months.
I see Hancock saying hairdressers and barbers won’t open for at least another 6 months.
There is no way most of these businesses will survive that king shut down.
I know one barber already gone to the wall.
The ratio of small businesses failing if social distancing were to to be 18 months would be phenomenal.
All then a cost to the government.
I'd expect your barbers to be among the first to open, with them effectively wearing hazmat suits and having no waiting area. Purely because the misery of people not being able to have hairdressing will become so large.
They would smash through PPE supplies following those guidelines though. Need a much more comfortable supply before that seems sensible.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
So, there is a large element of devil's advocate here but,rjsterry said:
Pretty sure TWH was referring to the idea of removing all restrictions in one go.Longshot said:tailwindhome said:
Absolutely no one is suggesting that.Longshot said:pangolin said:
It's just such glib nonsense isn't it. Oh we need to end the lock down but yes of course protect the vulnerable. Lets end the lock down but of course whilst protecting the NHS too. It makes no sense.tailwindhome said:There's a big question to be asked of the people suggesting we end the lockdown and shield the elderly and vulnerable if we can't shield them during lockdown
It makes about as much sense as suggesting we can keep this lockdown going for 6-12 months.
So what are you suggesting then? You were belittling the idea of ending the lockdown - you didn't specify anything more.
I would suggest that the idea that there is a way that all businesses can be saved is as mistaken as the idea that we could keep Covid-19 deaths below 20,000. Very simplistically, businesses that require close social contact are unfortunately the 'equivalent' of the over-70s and those with underlying health conditions.
If the risks to young and healthy people are so low, why should they not return to some level of normality?
Why should they be consigned to greater economic damage than necessary to reduce the risk to generations who are 'economically inactive' (to coin a phrase)?
I can generational resentment becoming ever greater.
The well off such as my parents can isolate easily. Why don't we invest this money tree in protecting the vulnerable who are not so fortunate and then open up life to the low risk?
1 -
And allow non-essential businesses that can practice social distancing to reopen.morstar said:
So, there is a large element of devil's advocate here but,rjsterry said:
Pretty sure TWH was referring to the idea of removing all restrictions in one go.Longshot said:tailwindhome said:
Absolutely no one is suggesting that.Longshot said:pangolin said:
It's just such glib nonsense isn't it. Oh we need to end the lock down but yes of course protect the vulnerable. Lets end the lock down but of course whilst protecting the NHS too. It makes no sense.tailwindhome said:There's a big question to be asked of the people suggesting we end the lockdown and shield the elderly and vulnerable if we can't shield them during lockdown
It makes about as much sense as suggesting we can keep this lockdown going for 6-12 months.
So what are you suggesting then? You were belittling the idea of ending the lockdown - you didn't specify anything more.
I would suggest that the idea that there is a way that all businesses can be saved is as mistaken as the idea that we could keep Covid-19 deaths below 20,000. Very simplistically, businesses that require close social contact are unfortunately the 'equivalent' of the over-70s and those with underlying health conditions.
If the risks to young and healthy people are so low, why should they not return to some level of normality?
Why should they be consigned to greater economic damage than necessary to reduce the risk to generations who are 'economically inactive' (to coin a phrase)?
I can generational resentment becoming ever greater.
The well off such as my parents can isolate easily. Why don't we invest this money tree in protecting the vulnerable who are not so fortunate and then open up life to the low risk?
And have regional variations depending on how hot they are running0 -
HMRC's March 2020 tax receipts down £2.2 bn on March 2019:
https://ftadviser.com/your-industry/2020/04/24/hmrc-tax-receipts-down-2bn-in-march/?utm_campaign=FTAdviser%20news&utm_source=emailCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=0 -
interesting article about Cheltenham being a C19 hotspot and the postcodes around the racecourse glowing hottest.
Imagine with the right sort of data the questions about transmission that arise and knowledge of where to concentrate resources.
It gives you an idea of the impact that a DE or SK approach might have
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8249709/Area-Cheltenham-Racecourse-shows-Covid-19-spike.html0 -
rick_chasey said:
Pretty sure Britain has a few more months lockdown in it.
I haven't given them the clap once. They have no idea one way or the other. More social media opportunism for the selfie brigade.You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.0 -
So Mr Goo was asking why stocks are doing OK given we are heading into a monster depression, and it turns out, no-one knows.
https://www.ft.com/content/10d24f35-dee9-4991-a7bd-51be9097a100
Lots of clever people who's job it is to analyse this stuff are baffled.0 -
If you can devise a way of doing so that keeps them out of the way of the large numbers of people of all ages who are more likely to be hospitalised and aren't going to just shrug this off, while still allowing them to do this, then I'm sure the government would like to hear from you.morstar said:
So, there is a large element of devil's advocate here but,rjsterry said:
Pretty sure TWH was referring to the idea of removing all restrictions in one go.Longshot said:tailwindhome said:
Absolutely no one is suggesting that.Longshot said:pangolin said:
It's just such glib nonsense isn't it. Oh we need to end the lock down but yes of course protect the vulnerable. Lets end the lock down but of course whilst protecting the NHS too. It makes no sense.tailwindhome said:There's a big question to be asked of the people suggesting we end the lockdown and shield the elderly and vulnerable if we can't shield them during lockdown
It makes about as much sense as suggesting we can keep this lockdown going for 6-12 months.
So what are you suggesting then? You were belittling the idea of ending the lockdown - you didn't specify anything more.
I would suggest that the idea that there is a way that all businesses can be saved is as mistaken as the idea that we could keep Covid-19 deaths below 20,000. Very simplistically, businesses that require close social contact are unfortunately the 'equivalent' of the over-70s and those with underlying health conditions.
If the risks to young and healthy people are so low, why should they not return to some level of normality?
Why should they be consigned to greater economic damage than necessary to reduce the risk to generations who are 'economically inactive' (to coin a phrase)?
I can generational resentment becoming ever greater.
The well off such as my parents can isolate easily. Why don't we invest this money tree in protecting the vulnerable who are not so fortunate and then open up life to the low risk?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
You don't have any living near you?Longshot said:rick_chasey said:
Pretty sure Britain has a few more months lockdown in it.
I haven't given them the clap once. They have no idea one way or the other. More social media opportunism for the selfie brigade.
Not saying it's obligatory, I have and haven't, but to think they can't hear it is a bit weird.0 -
kingstongraham said:
You don't have any living near you?Longshot said:rick_chasey said:
Pretty sure Britain has a few more months lockdown in it.
I haven't given them the clap once. They have no idea one way or the other. More social media opportunism for the selfie brigade.
Not saying it's obligatory, I have and haven't, but to think they can't hear it is a bit weird.
I don't have any NHS workers living near me. I'll show my appreciation for what they are doing in more meaningful ways.You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.0 -
ddraver said:
Well, Switzerland now testing everyone symptomatic and have made an antibody test available ("...in limited quantities...")
Because we're treated like adults here though they are open that they don't really know what the result of that antibody test might mean in terms of future health.
Interesting to hear that, I wasn't aware that a reliable antibody test was available0 -
Out of interest I just heard that our Dutch lot are doing a phased return to the office towards the end of May by dividing the work force into 3 teams and each team goes into the office every third working day. Could be something that other companies will be adopting - am expecting that we will hear something similar for other offices soon."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
-
Fair enough. You don't seem to understand that there are lots of them in cities, they seem to like it and it's not really any effort.Longshot said:kingstongraham said:
You don't have any living near you?Longshot said:rick_chasey said:
Pretty sure Britain has a few more months lockdown in it.
I haven't given them the clap once. They have no idea one way or the other. More social media opportunism for the selfie brigade.
Not saying it's obligatory, I have and haven't, but to think they can't hear it is a bit weird.
I don't have any NHS workers living near me. I'll show my appreciation for what they are doing in more meaningful ways.0 -
Seeing as a number have publicly and privately said that they do appreciate it, I'll take that at face value. Agree the social policing via FB is just weird.Longshot said:kingstongraham said:
You don't have any living near you?Longshot said:rick_chasey said:
Pretty sure Britain has a few more months lockdown in it.
I haven't given them the clap once. They have no idea one way or the other. More social media opportunism for the selfie brigade.
Not saying it's obligatory, I have and haven't, but to think they can't hear it is a bit weird.
I don't have any NHS workers living near me. I'll show my appreciation for what they are doing in more meaningful ways.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
This, however is fucking deranged:
https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/23/fury-social-distancing-ignored-westminster-bridge-12602395/0 -
We must be testing enough to know where these hot spots are?surrey_commuter said:interesting article about Cheltenham being a C19 hotspot and the postcodes around the racecourse glowing hottest.
Imagine with the right sort of data the questions about transmission that arise and knowledge of where to concentrate resources.
It gives you an idea of the impact that a DE or SK approach might have
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8249709/Area-Cheltenham-Racecourse-shows-Covid-19-spike.html"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
kingstongraham said:
Fair enough. You don't seem to understand that there are lots of them in cities, they seem to like it and it's not really any effort.Longshot said:kingstongraham said:
You don't have any living near you?Longshot said:rick_chasey said:
Pretty sure Britain has a few more months lockdown in it.
I haven't given them the clap once. They have no idea one way or the other. More social media opportunism for the selfie brigade.
Not saying it's obligatory, I have and haven't, but to think they can't hear it is a bit weird.
I don't have any NHS workers living near me. I'll show my appreciation for what they are doing in more meaningful ways.
I am sure there are lots of them in cities, just not sure what that has to do with anything?You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.0 -
You said that clapping for them was "More social media opportunism for the selfie brigade." - when the people you are clapping for can actually hear the clapping, it's really not got anything to do with social media.Longshot said:kingstongraham said:
Fair enough. You don't seem to understand that there are lots of them in cities, they seem to like it and it's not really any effort.Longshot said:kingstongraham said:
You don't have any living near you?Longshot said:rick_chasey said:
Pretty sure Britain has a few more months lockdown in it.
I haven't given them the clap once. They have no idea one way or the other. More social media opportunism for the selfie brigade.
Not saying it's obligatory, I have and haven't, but to think they can't hear it is a bit weird.
I don't have any NHS workers living near me. I'll show my appreciation for what they are doing in more meaningful ways.
I am sure there are lots of them in cities, just not sure what that has to do with anything?0 -
I think the numbers are based on hospitalisationsStevo_666 said:
We must be testing enough to know where these hot spots are?surrey_commuter said:interesting article about Cheltenham being a C19 hotspot and the postcodes around the racecourse glowing hottest.
Imagine with the right sort of data the questions about transmission that arise and knowledge of where to concentrate resources.
It gives you an idea of the impact that a DE or SK approach might have
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8249709/Area-Cheltenham-Racecourse-shows-Covid-19-spike.html1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I don't like to click on the Daily Mail either, but the headline is "Revealed: Postcodes surrounding Cheltenham racecourse had county's highest number of coronavirus hospital admissions"Stevo_666 said:
We must be testing enough to know where these hot spots are?surrey_commuter said:interesting article about Cheltenham being a C19 hotspot and the postcodes around the racecourse glowing hottest.
Imagine with the right sort of data the questions about transmission that arise and knowledge of where to concentrate resources.
It gives you an idea of the impact that a DE or SK approach might have
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8249709/Area-Cheltenham-Racecourse-shows-Covid-19-spike.html0 -
There isn't - at least for the purposes of some sort of passport. But for the purposes of mapping the virus spread and modeling, perhaps there is.kingstonian said:ddraver said:Well, Switzerland now testing everyone symptomatic and have made an antibody test available ("...in limited quantities...")
Because we're treated like adults here though they are open that they don't really know what the result of that antibody test might mean in terms of future health.
Interesting to hear that, I wasn't aware that a reliable antibody test was available0 -
Me neither, but how did they know these were Coronavirus hospitalisations?kingstongraham said:
I don't like to click on the Daily Mail either, but the headline is "Revealed: Postcodes surrounding Cheltenham racecourse had county's highest number of coronavirus hospital admissions"Stevo_666 said:
We must be testing enough to know where these hot spots are?surrey_commuter said:interesting article about Cheltenham being a C19 hotspot and the postcodes around the racecourse glowing hottest.
Imagine with the right sort of data the questions about transmission that arise and knowledge of where to concentrate resources.
It gives you an idea of the impact that a DE or SK approach might have
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8249709/Area-Cheltenham-Racecourse-shows-Covid-19-spike.html"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
You are absolutely right that a bad economic shock can scar a region semi-permanently. I live near what was once mining country. Until a recent spate of new builds for commuters, the local towns were pretty awful with systemic unemployment and deprivation as a result of Thatcher closing basically the only job on town so quickly. That was 35 years ago. Ravenscraig was only built on in the 2000s. You can plot a direct line from that to the SNP's popularity... I digress.rick_chasey said:In the same way folk are saying "you need to accept lots of people are going to die" I think people need to recognise that this is going to be deeply damaging for an economy and there is only so much you can do.
Lifting things before it is safe to do so won't help any economic recovery either.
You can look at all the proper global pandemics in the past and it is always the same - places with the most deaths do the worst; sometimes changing the entire direction of a place's prosperity forever.
I would be shocked if America comes out of this as powerful as it went in. It is hard to take a superpower seriously if it literally cannot look after its own people and is comfortable for thousands to needlessly die (and it elects leaders who suggest injecting disinfectant.)
But I'm not sure you are right about the rest. This isn't a pandemic in the same sense of the Spanish flu - the death rate, though alarming, isn't even remotely close and, if all lockdowns were lifted and it ran riot, the economic impact would be not that great because people of working age are, relatively speaking, not that susceptible.
For the avoidance of doubt I'm not advocating this, but this seems to be the right-wing view in the US and economically, they may in fact steal something of a march on the rest of the world.1 -
I am obviously curious how this works from a public transport perspective.Stevo_666 said:Out of interest I just heard that our Dutch lot are doing a phased return to the office towards the end of May by dividing the work force into 3 teams and each team goes into the office every third working day. Could be something that other companies will be adopting - am expecting that we will hear something similar for other offices soon.
I don't really fancy trying it for the next few months....0
