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  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 7,447
    That doesn't account for the lives saved by getting there quickly - all countries were eventually going to converge. That isn't news. The UK did well on vaccines. The UK has done badly on basically absolutely everything else. That's not news either. So, just another dramatically headlined but generally not particularly insightful Guardian opinion piece.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,376 Lives Here
    edited 19 September

    Also, for all the documentation you’re told you need, most of mine were not checked.

    No one in Holland asked my purpose for visiting (thus deciding if I need to quarantine or not, nor could they find me if they wanted to check up if I was as they never asked for where I was staying) no one checked my vaccination status.

    On my return to the uk none checked my corona test result, though the document you fill in does cover the double vaccination question and if you need to quarantine what your address is etc, including evidence you have a test booked for after you return.

    I think this is airline dependent as my sister got thoroughly interrogated re paperwork on her flight but again, Dutch border police are not interested in enforcing corona rules.


    Out of curiosity, do you travel on a British or Dutch passport as I am wondering if being viewed as Dutch or British changes the approach the border police take.
    I always use the passport for the destination nation. So when I fly out I use Ned and back I use GB

    “What was the purpose for your visit to England?”

    “I live there”

    “Ok safe travels”
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,625

    That doesn't account for the lives saved by getting there quickly - all countries were eventually going to converge. That isn't news. The UK did well on vaccines. The UK has done badly on basically absolutely everything else. That's not news either. So, just another dramatically headlined but generally not particularly insightful Guardian opinion piece.


    Yes, indeed. Just that we were being encouraged at every turn to praise the UK's early efforts (which we generally did), but it seems that the EU has learnt some lessons, while the UK hasn't.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,069
    When considering the net benefits of vaccinating 12-15 year olds, I didn't consider the bragging rights of being able to claim to have done more jabs.
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,625
    edited 19 September
    I think I might be going to have a little internal organisational battle about the relative (un)importance of surface transmission and sanitisation... don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that hand-washing is a waste of time, but I'm not convinced that washing chair legs is a good use of time, nor that the virus can survive on sheet music in a box for a month. There still seems to be quite a lot of 'theatre' around the worry about surface transmission, whereas ventilation is just a "Well, it's probably helpful, unless it gets a bit nippy when the window's open..." I blame it one the early advice to wash groceries... never did work out how you're supposed to wash a loaf of bread.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 7,447
    What you do is take a mouthful of alcohol before you take a bite of anything that has been delivered to your home within the last month.

    You are correct, by the way. It was determined very early on that virus survives for less than 48 hours on surfaces. I tried to point out before we were all sent home 18 months ago that our office "deep cleans" on Fridays were therefore a waste of time and money.

    Logic of this nature does not sway people who have been on a management course.
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,625

    What you do is take a mouthful of alcohol before you take a bite of anything that has been delivered to your home within the last month.

    You are correct, by the way. It was determined very early on that virus survives for less than 48 hours on surfaces. I tried to point out before we were all sent home 18 months ago that our office "deep cleans" on Fridays were therefore a waste of time and money.

    Logic of this nature does not sway people who have been on a management course.


    I actually really enjoy seeing how the science of this is reported and evolves with the humungous amount of data that is coming in, with various models (Sweden, anyone?) giving different (temporary) outcomes: the pandemic has come at a time when science has evolved out of (almost all) recognition from the Spanish flu episode, in medical terms (speed of vaccine development, for instance), and collation, analysis, and reporting of data.

    What hasn't changed is that scientists act on informed hunches, with varying success, of course... it's just that in case the success of those hunches is being measured in deaths in a truly massive way.

    What I don't enjoy so much is that people still don't realise how science works ("It's our best guess, for now", and therefore it might be necessary to change how one responds to circumstances, and accept that scientists might have to change their advice as time goes on.
  • kingstoniankingstonian Posts: 2,483

    Also, for all the documentation you’re told you need, most of mine were not checked.

    No one in Holland asked my purpose for visiting (thus deciding if I need to quarantine or not, nor could they find me if they wanted to check up if I was as they never asked for where I was staying) no one checked my vaccination status.

    On my return to the uk none checked my corona test result, though the document you fill in does cover the double vaccination question and if you need to quarantine what your address is etc, including evidence you have a test booked for after you return.

    I think this is airline dependent as my sister got thoroughly interrogated re paperwork on her flight but again, Dutch border police are not interested in enforcing corona rules.


    Out of curiosity, do you travel on a British or Dutch passport as I am wondering if being viewed as Dutch or British changes the approach the border police take.
    I always use the passport for the destination nation. So when I fly out I use Ned and back I use GB

    “What was the purpose for your visit to England?”

    “I live there”

    “Ok safe travels”

    Makes sense. Thanks.
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,619

    Spot the odd one out.


    Anyone else would feel a bit self-conscious.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,376 Lives Here
    You do wonder if he’s lacking in some common sense
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,625
    Pross said:

    Spot the odd one out.


    Anyone else would feel a bit self-conscious.

    I would have thought that, even if Johnson is that stupid, that someone in his entourage would have thought about the optics of this, given how staged it is.

    But maybe, like the one in the cabinet office, it is trying to send out a message of how brave he is at defying the virus. Maybe he thinks that some cod Latin or Franglais will protect him.
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,783
    edited 23 September
    Look at how tidy his hair is - I don't think he knew there was a photo being taken.

    Maybe he's transfixed by Biden's stirring oratory.
  • Pross said:

    Spot the odd one out.


    Anyone else would feel a bit self-conscious.
    Just like the downing street cabinet photo, this one was stage managed. Except this one is set up by the septics to make BJ look stupid. Not hard really.
  • He seemed OK to wear one earlier in the week.

  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 7,312
    edited 23 September
    Surely nobody believes they kept those masks on during discussions - they are there for public consumption - there are pics of Biden and Boris on the same day in the same room without masks.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,783
    edited 23 September

    Surely nobody believes they kept those masks on during discussions - they are there for public consumption - there are pics of Biden and Boris on the same day in the same room without masks.

    Yes, I don't think they were unaware of the camera for this one in the same room:



    Struck me as a bit odd at the time to release those two sets of pictures.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,811
    Strangely, they are socially distant while wearing masks but close when not.
    Suggests that the mask one is the one they wanted put out.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • pblakeney said:

    Strangely, they are socially distant while wearing masks but close when not.
    Suggests that the mask one is the one they wanted put out.



    And then Johnson quote tweeted this one.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,811
    edited 23 September
    BJ is such a muppet.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • JezyboyJezyboy Posts: 1,004
    Two men who (presumably) are tested extremely frequently, who are both double jabbed. The cloth masks they appear to be wearing (at times) aren't necessarily the most effective.


  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,811
    Jezyboy said:

    Two men who (presumably) are tested extremely frequently, who are both double jabbed. The cloth masks they appear to be wearing (at times) aren't necessarily the most effective.


    We are talking about the message sent, not the practicalities.
    If there is no need for the masks then say so and don't pretend otherwise.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • JezyboyJezyboy Posts: 1,004
    pblakeney said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Two men who (presumably) are tested extremely frequently, who are both double jabbed. The cloth masks they appear to be wearing (at times) aren't necessarily the most effective.


    We are talking about the message sent, not the practicalities.
    If there is no need for the masks then say so and don't pretend otherwise.
    The message seems to be Biden likes them a bit too much, Boris not quite enough.

  • ProssPross Posts: 29,619
    I found the uproar over the photo of the Cabinet not wearing masks a little bit OTT to be honest. Are people generally wearing masks when in the office these days? We certainly aren't.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,376 Lives Here
    Pross said:

    I found the uproar over the photo of the Cabinet not wearing masks a little bit OTT to be honest. Are people generally wearing masks when in the office these days? We certainly aren't.

    Read the room right?

  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 7,447
    Pross said:

    I found the uproar over the photo of the Cabinet not wearing masks a little bit OTT to be honest. Are people generally wearing masks when in the office these days? We certainly aren't.

    We are, even in the firm's English offices.
  • Pross said:

    I found the uproar over the photo of the Cabinet not wearing masks a little bit OTT to be honest. Are people generally wearing masks when in the office these days? We certainly aren't.

    Was the same day as they updated guidance to say "You are expected and recommended to continue wearing a face covering in crowded and enclosed spaces where you come into contact with people you don’t usually meet."

    Not everyone in that room regularly meets. I'd say if you only meet for an hour once a week, that's not usually.
  • Pross said:

    I found the uproar over the photo of the Cabinet not wearing masks a little bit OTT to be honest. Are people generally wearing masks when in the office these days? We certainly aren't.

    We would not wear masks but would not meet in a tiny room because that is what we had always done
  • mrb123mrb123 Posts: 3,424

    Spot the odd one out.


    Shouldn't we be commenting that the windows are all closed?
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,625
    mrb123 said:

    Spot the odd one out.


    Shouldn't we be commenting that the windows are all closed?

    I had noticed that. I'm also getting annoyed that someone in the building where I teach is already closing the front doors, despite it being really mild and hundreds of unvaccinated children using the building. I can't get my head around what they are thinking.

    Victoria has a much better covid mantra: ventilate, vaccinate, virus detection.
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