Coronavirus and pro sport

andyp

kingstongraham said:

Spurs are the bad guys here, not the players.

Spurs are owned by Joe Lewis whose net worth is £4.3 billion and who lives in tax exile in the Bahamas.

blazing_saddles

Southampton players become the first to defer part of their salaries:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52228542

Meanwhile, in rugby, Wales's top players to take a 25% salary cut.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52135142

Also, county cricket players have agreed a voluntary "support package" that will set "maximum reductions" to salaries during the coronavirus pandemic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/52219205

kingstongraham

USA based, but argument is just as valid for Europe.

https://www.si.com/.amp/mlb/2020/04/10/sports-arent-coming-back-soon?__twitter_impression=true

sherer

kingstongraham said:

USA based, but argument is just as valid for Europe.

https://www.si.com/.amp/mlb/2020/04/10/sports-arent-coming-back-soon?__twitter_impression=true

Very good article, it explains what I said to a few of my colleagues, I can’t see how we can self isolate and still put on a show. Even something as simple as getting petrol to get to and from a hotel becomes a massive risk

coopster_the_1st

sherer said:

kingstongraham said:

USA based, but argument is just as valid for Europe.

https://www.si.com/.amp/mlb/2020/04/10/sports-arent-coming-back-soon?__twitter_impression=true

Very good article, it explains what I said to a few of my colleagues, I can’t see how we can self isolate and still put on a show. Even something as simple as getting petrol to get to and from a hotel becomes a massive risk

What sport are you in?

There is a lot of money involved here and that will drive solutions e.g pay the support staff 2,3 or 5 times their weekly salary to be isolated during the period. How many would turn that down when there are lots of people available who could replace them in a moments notice?

The viewing figures of any sport taking this on will be huge and a huge boost for the future of that sport. Outdoor sports definitely have an advantage. With £1.5bn+ at stake I suspect the Premier League may be one of the first movers here and will be the model for others to follow.

ugo.santalucia

I hope this is going to be an opportunity to sort out PRO sport, football above all. There will be less money around, fewer people keen to pay per view, fewer wanting to splash in season tickets or travel abroad to watch a game. Maybe the all bubble will finally burst, which would be one of the (surprisingly many) positive outcomes of the situation we are in. Low pay workers in football will be absorbed by other sectors which will do well, like deliveries and logistics... maybe time to rethink whether the third choice keeper of ManU should be paid £ 1.5M

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia said:

I hope this is going to be an opportunity to sort out PRO sport, football above all. There will be less money around, fewer people keen to pay per view, fewer wanting to splash in season tickets or travel abroad to watch a game. Maybe the all bubble will finally burst, which would be one of the (surprisingly many) positive outcomes of the situation we are in. Low pay workers in football will be absorbed by other sectors which will do well, like deliveries and logistics... maybe time to rethink whether the third choice keeper of ManU should be paid £ 1.5M

This is pathetic. You want regular people to lose their jobs just because you are envious of a few people - mostly from fairly poor backgrounds. If these low pay workers wanted those jobas in other sectors surely they'd take them.
"There will be less money around". Hooray everyone's poorer, but don't worry Ugo is happy that some working class kids have been made to learn their place.

ugo.santalucia

RichN95. said:

This is pathetic. You want regular people to lose their jobs just because you are envious of a few people - mostly from fairly poor backgrounds. If these low pay workers wanted those jobas in other sectors surely they'd take them.
"There will be less money around". Hooray everyone's poorer, but don't worry Ugo is happy that some working class kids have been made to learn their place.

Maybe that's a bit OTT... I hope you agree that the all football league has gone too far... even the third choice keeper of ManU is a millionaire, meanwhile you go down a couple of leagues and clubs struggle to survive with crumbs.
Go back 30 years and the "millionaire" contracts were for the best players, the Maradona, Platini and such, now even a dead horse 38 years old keeper who will never play a game earns nearly 100 times the average UK salary.
The more money they pump into football, the more the disparity becomes greater... more at the top and less at the bottom. They keep saying it's good for grass root, but in reality it is not, it has never been, it will never be. It seems to be a sad reality of capitalism that is brought to the extreme in professional football. And then of course they all look like heroes because they donate a few crumbs to the local community in the form of non taxable charity
I am not advocating for the end of football, but for the end of a certain kind of football, then yes, I am and I hope it happens soon
I can't really think of a company in a different sector with revenues around £ 500M and virtually zero profits employing over 20 staff with contracts worth several millions (let alone the fact they need to pay several millions for the privilege of employing them).

takethehighroad

The logical arguments around football fall down as soon as you realise that 22 blokes kicking a bag of wind about is worth billions of pounds a year, which is about as illogical as you can get.

Also, your post reads less like an anti football post, more an anti Lee Grant post. He must have done something bad to you in a former life

kingstongraham

coopster_the_1st said:

sherer said:

kingstongraham said:

USA based, but argument is just as valid for Europe.

https://www.si.com/.amp/mlb/2020/04/10/sports-arent-coming-back-soon?__twitter_impression=true

Very good article, it explains what I said to a few of my colleagues, I can’t see how we can self isolate and still put on a show. Even something as simple as getting petrol to get to and from a hotel becomes a massive risk

What sport are you in?

There is a lot of money involved here and that will drive solutions e.g pay the support staff 2,3 or 5 times their weekly salary to be isolated during the period. How many would turn that down when there are lots of people available who could replace them in a moments notice?

The viewing figures of any sport taking this on will be huge and a huge boost for the future of that sport. Outdoor sports definitely have an advantage. With £1.5bn+ at stake I suspect the Premier League may be one of the first movers here and will be the model for others to follow.

Don't think you read it all

ugo.santalucia

takethehighroad said:

Also, your post reads less like an anti football post, more an anti Lee Grant post. He must have done something bad to you in a former life

Not specifically, before googling him, I didn't even know who he was... he is just there to prove my point... someone who is as useful as a punctured tyre is earning a salary which wouldn't be out of line for the CEO of some (smaller) FTSE 100 companies turning healthy profits, just shows how bizarre professional football is.

takethehighroad

ugo.santalucia said:

takethehighroad said:

Also, your post reads less like an anti football post, more an anti Lee Grant post. He must have done something bad to you in a former life

Not specifically, before googling him, I didn't even know who he was... he is just there to prove my point... someone who is as useful as a punctured inner tube is earning a salary which wouldn't be out of line for the CEO of some (smaller) FTSE 100 companies turning healthy profits, just shows how bizarre professional football is.

Like I said before, the fact that football is worth so much money, is illogically unfathomable, and can't be compared to any other normal reference point

TheBigBean

I don't really understand fans of one sport criticising another sport. They are all pointless, so if you are happy to watch one pointless activity it is entirely to be expected that other people might want to watch others.

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia said:

I can't really think of a company in a different sector with revenues around £ 500M and virtually zero profits employing over 20 staff with contracts worth several millions (let alone the fact they need to pay several millions for the privilege of employing them).

There also aren't companies with revenues of £500m with less than 1000 staff. Or one so reliant on so few of those staff for their success or failure. Or one where those staff are themselves a sellable commodity.

coopster_the_1st

kingstongraham said:

coopster_the_1st said:

sherer said:

kingstongraham said:

USA based, but argument is just as valid for Europe.

https://www.si.com/.amp/mlb/2020/04/10/sports-arent-coming-back-soon?__twitter_impression=true

Very good article, it explains what I said to a few of my colleagues, I can’t see how we can self isolate and still put on a show. Even something as simple as getting petrol to get to and from a hotel becomes a massive risk

What sport are you in?

There is a lot of money involved here and that will drive solutions e.g pay the support staff 2,3 or 5 times their weekly salary to be isolated during the period. How many would turn that down when there are lots of people available who could replace them in a moments notice?

The viewing figures of any sport taking this on will be huge and a huge boost for the future of that sport. Outdoor sports definitely have an advantage. With £1.5bn+ at stake I suspect the Premier League may be one of the first movers here and will be the model for others to follow.

Don't think you read it all

I read it all. With the Premier League as an example there is more than enough money at stake to make it happen, no matter what it costs. At the moment the Premier League are set to lose £1.5bn!

It may need a few rule tweaks e.g. nominated squad size of 25, limits to backroom staff, etc. I don't even see government authorisation being that hard to attain. The biggest issue would be the pampered players being away from families for 10 weeks.

kingstongraham

Key bit: What if the person delivering groceries to the biodome walks by someone who coughs on the lettuce and a week later, a player tests positive? Is there an option other than shutting down the whole operation for 14 days? “No,” says Bergstrom.

Needs a LOT of luck.

pblakeney

For context the EPL is a fraction of economic scale to American sport.

coopster_the_1st

kingstongraham said:

Key bit: What if the person delivering groceries to the biodome walks by someone who coughs on the lettuce and a week later, a player tests positive? Is there an option other than shutting down the whole operation for 14 days? “No,” says Bergstrom.

Needs a LOT of luck.

Any food that is not fresh is quarantined for 7 days before being touched by anyone inside the quarantine area.

All fresh food is cooked otherwise it is not a food option.

Some people only see problems whereas with thought of the whole process its possible, even as far as quarantining the coach drivers. If he needs fuel, someone else fills it up without the driver leaving his seat, although it may not be needed if they choose the correct hotel and ground locations.

bobmcstuff

pblakeney said:

For context the EPL is a fraction of economic scale to American sport.

And in the grand scheme of things, no sports are particularly big in GDP terms.

I remember in a Freakonomics episode someone made the point that the entire US sports industry was worth about the same amount as the cardboard box industry.

ugo.santalucia

coopster_the_1st said:

kingstongraham said:

Key bit: What if the person delivering groceries to the biodome walks by someone who coughs on the lettuce and a week later, a player tests positive? Is there an option other than shutting down the whole operation for 14 days? “No,” says Bergstrom.

Needs a LOT of luck.

Any food that is not fresh is quarantined for 7 days before being touched by anyone inside the quarantine area.

All fresh food is cooked otherwise it is not a food option.

Some people only see problems whereas with thought of the whole process its possible, even as far as quarantining the coach drivers. If he needs fuel, someone else fills it up without the driver leaving his seat, although it may not be needed if they choose the correct hotel and ground locations.

Somewhat reminds me of E. A. Poe... it didn't work for Prospero and his guests... it won't work for Football

kingstongraham

coopster_the_1st said:

kingstongraham said:

Key bit: What if the person delivering groceries to the biodome walks by someone who coughs on the lettuce and a week later, a player tests positive? Is there an option other than shutting down the whole operation for 14 days? “No,” says Bergstrom.

Needs a LOT of luck.

Any food that is not fresh is quarantined for 7 days before being touched by anyone inside the quarantine area.

All fresh food is cooked otherwise it is not a food option.

Some people only see problems whereas with thought of the whole process its possible, even as far as quarantining the coach drivers. If he needs fuel, someone else fills it up without the driver leaving his seat, although it may not be needed if they choose the correct hotel and ground locations.

Trouble is, you need to see all the problems, and have airtight solutions for all of them.

Like I say, would need a LOT of luck.

Wheelspinner

Rugby League here is already planning to do exactly this, put all the teams in a bubble somewhere and play the season.

I’m sketchy on details because my interest in the NRL is less than zero, but allegedly the (state) government has already specifically approved the idea.

ugo.santalucia

I'm sure those who went for a cruise at the beginning of March were thinking of doing just that... somewhat backfired.
You have to ask everyone to be quarantined in a controlled environment for at least two weeks and that includes pilots and cabin crew who have to then fly them to the Covid-19 free island.
It's a massive logistic operation

ugo.santalucia

Read an article where a Spanish scientist, fed up with being asked when a vaccine or drugs will be available, suggested to ask Messi and Ronaldo if they know anything about it...
Right on the money... depicts quite well a society which puts a lot of value in things that have zero value.

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia said:

Read an article where a Spanish scientist, fed up with being asked when a vaccine or drugs will be available, suggested to ask Messi and Ronaldo if they know anything about it...
Right on the money... depicts quite well a society which puts a lot of value in things that have zero value.

Oh yes, the poor pharmaceutical companies and their shoestring budgets.

Sanofi Pasteur is a leading vaccine manufacturer. It's revenue last year was $35 billion. It spent $6 billion on research and development. Money is not an issue.

ugo.santalucia

RichN95. said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Read an article where a Spanish scientist, fed up with being asked when a vaccine or drugs will be available, suggested to ask Messi and Ronaldo if they know anything about it...
Right on the money... depicts quite well a society which puts a lot of value in things that have zero value.

Oh yes, the poor pharmaceutical companies and their shoestring budgets.

Sanofi Pasteur is a leading vaccine manufacturer. It's revenue last year was $35 billion. It spent $6 billion on research and development. Money is not an issue.

I was thinking more in terms of public funded research, which in most developed countries get some bread crumbs of the GDP, around 1% or so.

I used to be a scientist writing grants to get funds to ultimately do research and the average success rate is 10% (mine was lower), which means 90% of the time spent in writing grants is pretty much wasted, because there is so little money in the pot.
If there was more money, science would be more advanced, vaccines could be produced quicker and so on.
But the choice of most developed countries has always been to keep taxes low, so that people have more disposable income, that seemingly make them happy and they can waste on Sky +, Amazon Prime and a season ticket for their favourite club.
One of the (many) positive outcomes of Covid-19 might (just might) be a reshuffle in people's priorities... maybe science deserves more money than football... maybe we can't solely rely on enterprise, competition and capitalism to sort us out, maybe we all need to chip in more, little more or a lot more depending on what we can... maybe a season ticket should cost £ 300 and not £ 3000, maybe the third choice keeper of Man Utd should earn 50 K and not 1.5 M and so on...

Maybe that would be a very good thing

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia said:

maybe we can't solely rely on enterprise, competition and capitalism to sort us out, maybe we all need to chip in more, little more or a lot more depending on what we can... maybe a season ticket should cost £ 300 and not £ 3000, maybe the third choice keeper of Man Utd should earn 50 K and not 1.5 M and so on...>

Season tickets don't cost £3000. The cheapest is £320. Manchester United's start at £532, the most expensive in £950. Some people on here spend more on their third choice bike.

ugo.santalucia

RichN95. said:

Season tickets don't cost £3000. The cheapest is £320. Manchester United's start at £532, the most expensive in £950. Some people on here spend more on their third choice bike.

It doesn't matter the number, the point is where people's priorities were and where they will be when this is over. If they change, then we have learnt something, if they don't, then people will have lost their lives in vain.
If you asked people to part with £ 500 (on average) per year to fund public research, you would have probably got a mid finger as an answer, but things might change.

I read somewhere that true or not the average spend for pet grooming is higher than the national spend for research... is that something you are happy with?

As a nation, are we proud that the average research contract for someone with a PhD is temporary, grant funded, 2-3 years and 25-30K in value? Seems good value for money... certainly enough to deter most bright kids to ever walk that path.

It's a sad state of affairs that I have to advise my brightest students against doing a PhD and getting into research, don't you think?

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia said:

If you asked people to part with £ 500 (on average) per year to fund public research, you would have probably got a mid finger as an answer, but things might change.

Most people pay taxes willingly. Even the evil footballers. They fund lots of things.
And most medical products are funded by pharmaceutical companies which many people invest in via shares. If the public got to share the profits of their invest many would be keen.

pblakeney

There is nothing stopping the public investing in pharmaceutical companies and collecting their share of the profits.
Many already do through their pension, even if they do not know it.