Things you have recently learnt

briantrumpet

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

That I can’t get my tyres off my wheel whilst stranded in a very cold blowy field….



They were tough to put on originally but I couldn’t even get my levers in underneath the tyre.

Luckily the wife was home to pick me up. I got rather cold.

Now to see if better tyre levers will help or if I need to rethink my tyre choice…

it is easy to forget how bleak the fens are

It's no wonder RC doesn't like the countryside.

pinno

briantrumpet said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

That I can’t get my tyres off my wheel whilst stranded in a very cold blowy field….



They were tough to put on originally but I couldn’t even get my levers in underneath the tyre.

Luckily the wife was home to pick me up. I got rather cold.

Now to see if better tyre levers will help or if I need to rethink my tyre choice…

it is easy to forget how bleak the fens are

It's no wonder RC doesn't like the countryside.

Yeah but the Fens are beautiful in summer. I used to deliver all over that area. Wot got me is why in the pan flat areas of east Angliru, are the roads so frikkin bendy?

rick_chasey

pinno said:

briantrumpet said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

That I can’t get my tyres off my wheel whilst stranded in a very cold blowy field….



They were tough to put on originally but I couldn’t even get my levers in underneath the tyre.

Luckily the wife was home to pick me up. I got rather cold.

Now to see if better tyre levers will help or if I need to rethink my tyre choice…

it is easy to forget how bleak the fens are

It's no wonder RC doesn't like the countryside.

Yeah but the Fens are beautiful in summer. I used to deliver all over that area. Wot got me is why in the pan flat areas of east Angliru, are the roads so frikkin bendy?

Was gonna say the same. Cambridge & surrounding can be pretty bleak in Winter (any of you read Engelby?) but it's glorious in summer. Winter miles summer smiles does mean something to me around here.

and Pino, the roads are bendy because unlike the great unwashed continentals, Brits held the private property of the farmers sacred, so the roads have to squeeze around pieces of land that were drawn up as far back as Danelaw.

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

pinno said:

briantrumpet said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

That I can’t get my tyres off my wheel whilst stranded in a very cold blowy field….



They were tough to put on originally but I couldn’t even get my levers in underneath the tyre.

Luckily the wife was home to pick me up. I got rather cold.

Now to see if better tyre levers will help or if I need to rethink my tyre choice…

it is easy to forget how bleak the fens are

It's no wonder RC doesn't like the countryside.

Yeah but the Fens are beautiful in summer. I used to deliver all over that area. Wot got me is why in the pan flat areas of east Angliru, are the roads so frikkin bendy?

Was gonna say the same. Cambridge & surrounding can be pretty bleak in Winter (any of you read Engelby?) but it's glorious in summer. Winter miles summer smiles does mean something to me around here.

and Pino, the roads are bendy because unlike the great unwashed continentals, Brits held the private property of the farmers sacred, so the roads have to squeeze around pieces of land that were drawn up as far back as Danelaw.

Not limited to the Fens, either.

webboo

rick_chasey said:

pinno said:

briantrumpet said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

That I can’t get my tyres off my wheel whilst stranded in a very cold blowy field….



They were tough to put on originally but I couldn’t even get my levers in underneath the tyre.

Luckily the wife was home to pick me up. I got rather cold.

Now to see if better tyre levers will help or if I need to rethink my tyre choice…

it is easy to forget how bleak the fens are

It's no wonder RC doesn't like the countryside.

Yeah but the Fens are beautiful in summer. I used to deliver all over that area. Wot got me is why in the pan flat areas of east Angliru, are the roads so frikkin bendy?

Was gonna say the same. Cambridge & surrounding can be pretty bleak in Winter (any of you read Engelby?) but it's glorious in summer. Winter miles summer smiles does mean something to me around here.

and Pino, the roads are bendy because unlike the great unwashed continentals, Brits held the private property of the farmers sacred, so the roads have to squeeze around pieces of land that were drawn up as far back as Danelaw.

Watching Grayson Perry’s Full English the other night. I think the guy who has written the Right to Roam book was saying that 90+% of the land in England is owned by 5% of the population. Similar to the wealth my figures might a bit out but not by much.

First.Aspect

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

pinno said:

briantrumpet said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

That I can’t get my tyres off my wheel whilst stranded in a very cold blowy field….



They were tough to put on originally but I couldn’t even get my levers in underneath the tyre.

Luckily the wife was home to pick me up. I got rather cold.

Now to see if better tyre levers will help or if I need to rethink my tyre choice…

it is easy to forget how bleak the fens are

It's no wonder RC doesn't like the countryside.

Yeah but the Fens are beautiful in summer. I used to deliver all over that area. Wot got me is why in the pan flat areas of east Angliru, are the roads so frikkin bendy?

Was gonna say the same. Cambridge & surrounding can be pretty bleak in Winter (any of you read Engelby?) but it's glorious in summer. Winter miles summer smiles does mean something to me around here.

and Pino, the roads are bendy because unlike the great unwashed continentals, Brits held the private property of the farmers sacred, so the roads have to squeeze around pieces of land that were drawn up as far back as Danelaw.

Not limited to the Fens, either.

Indeed. I spent some time in York a few years ago. Few weeks a year in the summer. Vale of York is pan flat (why it's a vale I don't know) and it is preposterously green and the villages are assembled from Hornby sets.

Would I want to live there? No. I used to cycle miles to reach the nearest pimple (Crayke I think it was) because despite being a bit of a lump, I do like hills.

briantrumpet

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

pinno said:

briantrumpet said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

That I can’t get my tyres off my wheel whilst stranded in a very cold blowy field….



They were tough to put on originally but I couldn’t even get my levers in underneath the tyre.

Luckily the wife was home to pick me up. I got rather cold.

Now to see if better tyre levers will help or if I need to rethink my tyre choice…

it is easy to forget how bleak the fens are

It's no wonder RC doesn't like the countryside.

Yeah but the Fens are beautiful in summer. I used to deliver all over that area. Wot got me is why in the pan flat areas of east Angliru, are the roads so frikkin bendy?

Was gonna say the same. Cambridge & surrounding can be pretty bleak in Winter (any of you read Engelby?) but it's glorious in summer. Winter miles summer smiles does mean something to me around here.

and Pino, the roads are bendy because unlike the great unwashed continentals, Brits held the private property of the farmers sacred, so the roads have to squeeze around pieces of land that were drawn up as far back as Danelaw.

Not limited to the Fens, either.

Indeed. I spent some time in York a few years ago. Few weeks a year in the summer. Vale of York is pan flat (why it's a vale I don't know) and it is preposterously green and the villages are assembled from Hornby sets.

Would I want to live there? No. I used to cycle miles to reach the nearest pimple (Crayke I think it was) because despite being a bit of a lump, I do like hills.

Even cycling across the Somerset levels for an hour does my head in.

webboo

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

pinno said:

briantrumpet said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

That I can’t get my tyres off my wheel whilst stranded in a very cold blowy field….



They were tough to put on originally but I couldn’t even get my levers in underneath the tyre.

Luckily the wife was home to pick me up. I got rather cold.

Now to see if better tyre levers will help or if I need to rethink my tyre choice…

it is easy to forget how bleak the fens are

It's no wonder RC doesn't like the countryside.

Yeah but the Fens are beautiful in summer. I used to deliver all over that area. Wot got me is why in the pan flat areas of east Angliru, are the roads so frikkin bendy?

Was gonna say the same. Cambridge & surrounding can be pretty bleak in Winter (any of you read Engelby?) but it's glorious in summer. Winter miles summer smiles does mean something to me around here.

and Pino, the roads are bendy because unlike the great unwashed continentals, Brits held the private property of the farmers sacred, so the roads have to squeeze around pieces of land that were drawn up as far back as Danelaw.

Not limited to the Fens, either.

Indeed. I spent some time in York a few years ago. Few weeks a year in the summer. Vale of York is pan flat (why it's a vale I don't know) and it is preposterously green and the villages are assembled from Hornby sets.

Would I want to live there? No. I used to cycle miles to reach the nearest pimple (Crayke I think it was) because despite being a bit of a lump, I do like hills.

I take it you only had a couple of hours when you were allowed out on your bike in those days . 😆
Half an hour further on would have been the likes of White Horse Bank and so on.

First.Aspect

webboo said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

pinno said:

briantrumpet said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

That I can’t get my tyres off my wheel whilst stranded in a very cold blowy field….



They were tough to put on originally but I couldn’t even get my levers in underneath the tyre.

Luckily the wife was home to pick me up. I got rather cold.

Now to see if better tyre levers will help or if I need to rethink my tyre choice…

it is easy to forget how bleak the fens are

It's no wonder RC doesn't like the countryside.

Yeah but the Fens are beautiful in summer. I used to deliver all over that area. Wot got me is why in the pan flat areas of east Angliru, are the roads so frikkin bendy?

Was gonna say the same. Cambridge & surrounding can be pretty bleak in Winter (any of you read Engelby?) but it's glorious in summer. Winter miles summer smiles does mean something to me around here.

and Pino, the roads are bendy because unlike the great unwashed continentals, Brits held the private property of the farmers sacred, so the roads have to squeeze around pieces of land that were drawn up as far back as Danelaw.

Not limited to the Fens, either.

Indeed. I spent some time in York a few years ago. Few weeks a year in the summer. Vale of York is pan flat (why it's a vale I don't know) and it is preposterously green and the villages are assembled from Hornby sets.

Would I want to live there? No. I used to cycle miles to reach the nearest pimple (Crayke I think it was) because despite being a bit of a lump, I do like hills.

I take it you only had a couple of hours when you were allowed out on your bike in those days . 😆
Half an hour further on would have been the likes of White Horse Bank and so on.

Indeed, I used to go and stay in a second home of family and revise for exams. Would be a long weekend then back to work. Gave my wife a break from a grumpy bustard.

So rides were about 90 mins each way at best. And yes from the top of the hill at Crayke, the proximity of the moors was irritating.

Anyhow, there is a certain pleasure in how to meter effort on the flat. It is a bit like Fuego Flats on Zwift, but with ventilation and pot holes.

- on the plus side, I'd stop at Great Dun Fell or Mennock on the way down or up, sometimes. Or the chippy in Jedburgh, which I can recommend.

TheBigBean

Flat farming country is definitely better for cycling than my neck of the woods which has traffic lights at most 200m apart.

pinno

TheBigBean said:

Flat farming country is definitely better for cycling than my neck of the woods which has traffic lights at most 200m apart.

Yeah, years of commuting in urban areas and now, I wouldn't swap this area for that, ever.

briantrumpet

pinno said:

TheBigBean said:

Flat farming country is definitely better for cycling than my neck of the woods which has traffic lights at most 200m apart.

Yeah, years of commuting in urban areas and now, I wouldn't swap this area for that, ever.

A short daily commute here that involve traffic lights, but head in the other direction and it's a clear run out into the countryside. Even better in France... all points of the compass accessible without meeting a single traffic light for 50 miles or more.

rick_chasey

It’s a different kind of fatigue on the flat when there’s never a moment when you’re not putting pressure through the pedals.

briantrumpet

rick_chasey said:

It’s a different kind of fatigue on the flat when there’s never a moment when you’re not putting pressure through the pedals.

Absolutely... quite possibly why I prefer hilly areas, for the constant change of effort, and not least if there's a wind, the turbulence the hills create give some variation in direction & speed of wind.

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

It’s a different kind of fatigue on the flat when there’s never a moment when you’re not putting pressure through the pedals.

Probably just me but you could choose to put less pressure through the pedals. 😉

briantrumpet

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

It’s a different kind of fatigue on the flat when there’s never a moment when you’re not putting pressure through the pedals.

Probably just me but you could choose to put less pressure through the pedals. 😉

But then it takes longer to get to the café.

pblakeney

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

It’s a different kind of fatigue on the flat when there’s never a moment when you’re not putting pressure through the pedals.

Probably just me but you could choose to put less pressure through the pedals. 😉

But then it takes longer to get to the café.

Life is all about the journey, not the destination.

briantrumpet

pblakeney said:

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

It’s a different kind of fatigue on the flat when there’s never a moment when you’re not putting pressure through the pedals.

Probably just me but you could choose to put less pressure through the pedals. 😉

But then it takes longer to get to the café.

Life is all about the journey, not the destination.

Cake is part of the journey though: it's not a destination. And if you get there five minutes after the café has shut, what then? A life with a cake-shaped hole, and the epitaph "If only [I'd pedalled hard enough]"

pblakeney

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

It’s a different kind of fatigue on the flat when there’s never a moment when you’re not putting pressure through the pedals.

Probably just me but you could choose to put less pressure through the pedals. 😉

But then it takes longer to get to the café.

Life is all about the journey, not the destination.

Cake is part of the journey though: it's not a destination. And if you get there five minutes after the café has shut, what then? A life with a cake-shaped hole, and the epitaph "If only [I'd pedalled hard enough]"

In my experience there is always another cafe/restaurant/pub. Worst case scenario there is a convenience shop or garage.
Enjoy your journey or what’s the point?

pblakeney

To continue for those racing or training. In the words of Robert Millar, if you are stopping at a cafe then you are not training.

briantrumpet

pblakeney said:

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

It’s a different kind of fatigue on the flat when there’s never a moment when you’re not putting pressure through the pedals.

Probably just me but you could choose to put less pressure through the pedals. 😉

But then it takes longer to get to the café.

Life is all about the journey, not the destination.

Cake is part of the journey though: it's not a destination. And if you get there five minutes after the café has shut, what then? A life with a cake-shaped hole, and the epitaph "If only [I'd pedalled hard enough]"

In my experience there is always another cafe/restaurant/pub. Worst case scenario there is a convenience shop or garage.
Enjoy your journey or what’s the point?

Not either/or... there can be pleasure in fatigue, and fatigue + cake even more so. Though I do admit I'm easing off a bit, as I don't seem to be as young as I was.

I've picked up one or two clues that RC is still a whippersnapper in comparison to us...

pinno

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

It’s a different kind of fatigue on the flat when there’s never a moment when you’re not putting pressure through the pedals.

Absolutely... quite possibly why I prefer hilly areas, for the constant change of effort, and not least if there's a wind, the turbulence the hills create give some variation in direction & speed of wind.

Hills are intermittent effort and you get short breaks.
But a good friend of mine who used to go cycling with the Euskaltel boys in winter (he lives in Bilbao and came from a small village not far from Guernica). He said 'you don't build any condition on the hills', which initially, came as a bit of a surprise statement.

A little bit of what he was trying to say was lost due to him being Spanish but he did say that you can build stamina, strength, fitness (and you learn technique and pacing yourself) but you don't build condition. You can use hills to measure your condition.
I was going out into the Cotswolds on a regular basis and I got slower and more tired but I used to hate flat rides. They bored me. He said that if you want to do long hilly rides, do at least 2, preferably 3 flat rides to every hilly ride. Since then, I have changed when and where I ride but I have a cheat and that's the rollers. They maintain the souplesse that I find, I cannot maintain if your constantly riding hills.
[I know there will be a few bods out there champing at the bit to contradict me but i'm going to stick my neck out on this and also chuck in the caveat that every one is different and there are those who can sustain 90+ rpm uphill all the time but i'm not one of them. Also, Zwift and digitally supported home trainers have become so common, training has changed since then].

Unfortunately, due to another hip replacement, my plans to do the Marmotte went out of the window but replicating a sustained effort up a 6 to 8% gradient like the Galibier can be done by finding a flat road of roughly the same length (6 miles approx.) and drive into a stiff, block headwind, where you never or rarely stop pedalling.
This was what my friend suggested. He was a non-cycling fan (and a smoker and drinker) for years until 7 years ago, at the age of 34 hopped on a bike and within 4 years, he completed the Marmotte! Which is quite an achievement.
This was his technique in his preparation, devoid of alpine climbs in the UK.
So I have learnt to like the flat rides and enjoy the rhythm that you can maintain in a way that hills don't allow you to sustain and in a cadence that is pretty much constant.
I have to stretch for far longer after a hilly ride than after a flat ride.
I am lucky, I can choose both or a mixture here. Flat ride out and hilly home is my preference.

pblakeney

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

It’s a different kind of fatigue on the flat when there’s never a moment when you’re not putting pressure through the pedals.

Probably just me but you could choose to put less pressure through the pedals. 😉

But then it takes longer to get to the café.

Life is all about the journey, not the destination.

Cake is part of the journey though: it's not a destination. And if you get there five minutes after the café has shut, what then? A life with a cake-shaped hole, and the epitaph "If only [I'd pedalled hard enough]"

In my experience there is always another cafe/restaurant/pub. Worst case scenario there is a convenience shop or garage.
Enjoy your journey or what’s the point?

Not either/or... there can be pleasure in fatigue, and fatigue + cake even more so. Though I do admit I'm easing off a bit, as I don't seem to be as young as I was.

I've picked up one or two clues that RC is still a whippersnapper in comparison to us...

With age comes experience, with experience comes wisdom. 😉

webboo

First.Aspect said:

webboo said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

pinno said:

briantrumpet said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

That I can’t get my tyres off my wheel whilst stranded in a very cold blowy field….



They were tough to put on originally but I couldn’t even get my levers in underneath the tyre.

Luckily the wife was home to pick me up. I got rather cold.

Now to see if better tyre levers will help or if I need to rethink my tyre choice…

it is easy to forget how bleak the fens are

It's no wonder RC doesn't like the countryside.

Yeah but the Fens are beautiful in summer. I used to deliver all over that area. Wot got me is why in the pan flat areas of east Angliru, are the roads so frikkin bendy?

Was gonna say the same. Cambridge & surrounding can be pretty bleak in Winter (any of you read Engelby?) but it's glorious in summer. Winter miles summer smiles does mean something to me around here.

and Pino, the roads are bendy because unlike the great unwashed continentals, Brits held the private property of the farmers sacred, so the roads have to squeeze around pieces of land that were drawn up as far back as Danelaw.

Not limited to the Fens, either.

Indeed. I spent some time in York a few years ago. Few weeks a year in the summer. Vale of York is pan flat (why it's a vale I don't know) and it is preposterously green and the villages are assembled from Hornby sets.

Would I want to live there? No. I used to cycle miles to reach the nearest pimple (Crayke I think it was) because despite being a bit of a lump, I do like hills.

I take it you only had a couple of hours when you were allowed out on your bike in those days . 😆
Half an hour further on would have been the likes of White Horse Bank and so on.

Indeed, I used to go and stay in a second home of family and revise for exams. Would be a long weekend then back to work. Gave my wife a break from a grumpy bustard.

So rides were about 90 mins each way at best. And yes from the top of the hill at Crayke, the proximity of the moors was irritating.

Anyhow, there is a certain pleasure in how to meter effort on the flat. It is a bit like Fuego Flats on Zwift, but with ventilation and pot holes.

- on the plus side, I'd stop at Great Dun Fell or Mennock on the way down or up, sometimes. Or the chippy in Jedburgh, which I can recommend.

When I lived on the edge of the Moors I’d go west over towards Easingwold and ride the lanes on the banks of the Ouse before heading back over Crayke and home. I’d have to go that way if I wanted a flattish ride.

webboo

These days I ride on my own a lot so I tend towards longish and flattish rides where I get for me a decent average speed for the ride. I actually find that doing this doesn’t seem to effect my ability to ride hills when I do go hilly.

rick_chasey

The challenge i find the hardest on the flat is if you do decide to do shorter, faster efforts.

I find it much more mentally taxing having to hold that unsustainable level for x amount of time without the brow of a hill to aim for.

But the fatigue I get in my legs around here versus the stop-start and then hill/descent rides I used to do in London/Surrey is very different.

briantrumpet

webboo said:

These days I ride on my own a lot so I tend towards longish and flattish rides where I get for me a decent average speed for the ride. I actually find that doing this doesn’t seem to effect my ability to ride hills when I do go hilly.

Much better fir traning to ride up Alps... Dartmoor is useless for that.

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

The challenge i find the hardest on the flat is if you do decide to do shorter, faster efforts.

I find it much more mentally taxing having to hold that unsustainable level for x amount of time without the brow of a hill to aim for.

But the fatigue I get in my legs around here versus the stop-start and then hill/descent rides I used to do in London/Surrey is very different.

It is windy where you are, right, and that's actually a reasonable proxy for a hill. My local highest road goes up about 120 at 4%, but can often have a 15-20 mph headwind. My hamstrings and back and where the chain is on the cassette tell me that's similar to a steady grind at 8%.

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

The challenge i find the hardest on the flat is if you do decide to do shorter, faster efforts.

I find it much more mentally taxing having to hold that unsustainable level for x amount of time without the brow of a hill to aim for.

But the fatigue I get in my legs around here versus the stop-start and then hill/descent rides I used to do in London/Surrey is very different.

It is windy where you are, right, and that's actually a reasonable proxy for a hill. My local highest road goes up about 120 at 4%, but can often have a 15-20 mph headwind. My hamstrings and back and where the chain is on the cassette tell me that's similar to a steady grind at 8%.

It's more mentally being able to actually max it out for that 3-5 minute effort. I can hit a higher perceived solo "max" uphill than on the flat, so clearly my brain is lacking some motivation on the flat.

Pross

I find myself more likely to be able to run the whole length of a steep hill when I can see the top (or at least know how far it is). I struggle on really steep stuff though even when I'm fit as my calves get very tight and anything around the 10% gradient upwards ends up putting too much strain on my achilles due to the foot flex. I can manage for a bit by running on my toes and keeping my foot fairly level but that puts more strain on my quads. The biggest problem with running on hills is that it is far too easy to drop to a walk, on a bike you keep going as the 'walk' option means trying to stop and dismount.