Should Mark Cavendish swallow his pride and retire?

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  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,601
    He's back unfinished
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,656
    Schrodinger's Cyclist.
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  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    edited April 2021
    So...

    Even me with my very rose-tinted glasses on thinks there is no real contest between Bennett vs Cav for the Tour.

    However, given that they ve had a successful classics campaign (especially if Alaphilippe wins LBL), if Sam were to spanner himself into a broken collarbone at the Dolphin and be unavailable for the tour...

    Do QuickStep take Cav?

    Supplementary Question -
    How many team mates do you give him?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,166
    I know he wants the Tour, but there's a lot of sprinting in the Giro this year. Would it really be too early given his form?
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,656
    Giro has already been promised away.
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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    They're supposedly focussing on Evenepoel at the Giro, which I'm not sure is a good idea. I guess Ballerini might be getting any sprinting spot.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,166
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    Giro has already been promised away.

    Who to? Hodeg?
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,656
    kingstongraham said:

    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    Giro has already been promised away.

    Who to? Hodeg?
    That was my understanding, yes
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  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    150 pro wins club. About 7 ppl in there.

  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,166
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    kingstongraham said:

    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    Giro has already been promised away.

    Who to? Hodeg?
    That was my understanding, yes
    Feels like a big call given their respective form this year.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    edited April 2021
    shirley_basso said:

    150 pro wins club. About 7 ppl in there.


    283 Merckx
    162 Van Looy, De Vlaeminck
    161 Cipollini
    159 Kelly
    156 Greipel
    150 Cavendish, Petacchi

    Other current riders with 100: Valverde 128 & Sagan 115

    Is 13 more wins possible?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    And thus we see the reason for the OG "Sh*t Small Races" comment... ;)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    edited April 2021
    RichN95. said:

    shirley_basso said:

    150 pro wins club. About 7 ppl in there.


    283 Merckx
    162 Van Looy, De Vlaeminck
    161 Cipollini
    159 Kelly
    156 Greipel
    150 Cavendish, Petacchi

    Other current riders with 100: Valverde 128 & Sagan 115

    Is 13 more wins possible?
    Greipel has more wins than cav surprises me


    13 more would be an ask though
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,726
    edited April 2021
    mididoctors said:

    RichN95. said:

    shirley_basso said:

    150 pro wins club. About 7 ppl in there.


    283 Merckx
    162 Van Looy, De Vlaeminck
    161 Cipollini
    159 Kelly
    156 Greipel
    150 Cavendish, Petacchi

    Other current riders with 100: Valverde 128 & Sagan 115

    Is 13 more wins possible?
    Greipel has more wins than cav surprises me


    13 more would be an ask though
    18 wins at the TDU, 11 in Turkey and 10 in the T o Belgium.

    The full list is here and there a lot of wins that define sh*t small.

    https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/andre-greipel/statistics/wins

    Meanwhile Cavs top 50 wins are 48 GT stages, a world championship and Milan-San Remo.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    edited April 2021
    If you want to be the most winningist* rider in the modern era, aim for low hanging fruit

    *Used for effect
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Merckx is ridiculous on that list. Have to admit that whilst I knew Kelly was a great I didn't have him on that many.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    blazing_saddles said:

    mididoctors said:

    RichN95. said:

    shirley_basso said:

    150 pro wins club. About 7 ppl in there.


    283 Merckx
    162 Van Looy, De Vlaeminck
    161 Cipollini
    159 Kelly
    156 Greipel
    150 Cavendish, Petacchi

    Other current riders with 100: Valverde 128 & Sagan 115

    Is 13 more wins possible?
    Greipel has more wins than cav surprises me


    13 more would be an ask though
    18 wins at the TDU, 11 in Turkey and 10 in the T o Belgium.

    The full list is here and there a lot of wins that define sh*t small.

    https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/andre-greipel/statistics/wins

    Meanwhile Cavs top 50 wins are 48 GT stages, a world championship and Milan-San Remo.
    Yeah I guessed that Cavs must be higher grade ..still had him as the winningest rider of his generation... Just goes to show. Good for greipel still .well done that gorilla
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,632
    Pross said:

    Merckx is ridiculous on that list. Have to admit that whilst I knew Kelly was a great I didn't have him on that many.

    Kelly was an animal - example in 84:
    Sunday, 2nd in Flanders,
    Mon - Tour of the Basque - 6 stages in 5 days - came 1st 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 7th, 1st (ITT) - won GC and Points.
    Saturday day off.
    Sunday won Roubaix.

    A week later he won Liege.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,553
    In the month up to Flanders he'd also won Paris-Nice (and two stages) and all three stages, and the overall obviously, of the Criterium International.
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,632
    andyp said:

    In the month up to Flanders he'd also won Paris-Nice (and two stages) and all three stages, and the overall obviously, of the Criterium International.

    And come second in MSR.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,927
    If you win the overall GC and a stage is this two wins or one in the tally above?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    yorkshireraw said:

    Pross said:

    Merckx is ridiculous on that list. Have to admit that whilst I knew Kelly was a great I didn't have him on that many.

    Kelly was an animal - example in 84:
    Sunday, 2nd in Flanders,
    Mon - Tour of the Basque - 6 stages in 5 days - came 1st 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 7th, 1st (ITT) - won GC and Points.
    Saturday day off.
    Sunday won Roubaix.

    A week later he won Liege.
    Crazy isn't it? WvA gets close but different world 35 years ago!
    _
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,344
    Correct me if I'm wrong but back in the day they had to be winning to make money so entered and took seriously as many races as possible throughout the year as opposed to targeting races.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    edited April 2021
    TheBigBean said:

    If you win the overall GC and a stage is this two wins or one in the tally above?


    Two.

    It also only includes races rated .1 or higher. So it won't translate exactly to the older era

    Also Merckx is often cited as having 525 career wins. But Merckx wins are like Pele goals. There's a lot of dubious ones in there. Merckx's include 150 criteriums for example. Also Six-days etc. There's probably a few when he beat Axel to the end of the garden (and you know Eddy's not gifting them)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,726
    rick_chasey said:

    yorkshireraw said:

    Pross said:

    Merckx is ridiculous on that list. Have to admit that whilst I knew Kelly was a great I didn't have him on that many.

    Kelly was an animal - example in 84:
    Sunday, 2nd in Flanders,
    Mon - Tour of the Basque - 6 stages in 5 days - came 1st 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 7th, 1st (ITT) - won GC and Points.
    Saturday day off.
    Sunday won Roubaix.

    A week later he won Liege.
    Crazy isn't it? WvA gets close but different world 35 years ago!
    LOL, no he doesn't.
    You are such a fanboy.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,106
    Yes I think Cav goes to the Tour if Bennett can't. That 4th win showed he's got his old aggression back - think he'd lost that a bit - I suppose why take risks if you don't believe your legs can finish the job. He probably needs to do a bit more to be that stand in sprinter but time yet to do it.
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  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    DeVlaeminck said:

    Yes I think Cav goes to the Tour if Bennett can't. That 4th win showed he's got his old aggression back - think he'd lost that a bit - I suppose why take risks if you don't believe your legs can finish the job. He probably needs to do a bit more to be that stand in sprinter but time yet to do it.

    Surely he'd do the Giro or something first to see how he goes against slightly better opposition?
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,438
    Does Sagan have 48 wins left in him?

    Can't make up my mind if the answer is 'Don't be stupid, of course he doesn't he may never win again ' or '10 a year with plenty of SSR to pad it out is doable'
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    tailwindhome said:

    Does Sagan have 48 wins left in him?

    Can't make up my mind if the answer is 'Don't be stupid, of course he doesn't he may never win again ' or '10 a year with plenty of SSR to pad it out is doable'


    Who knows? My guess is no as I don't think he'll ride until his late 30s. By comparision these are wins by the other 21st century riders after his age (31 years 3 months)

    8 Cavendish
    24 Greipel
    52 Cipollini
    64 Petacchi
    68 Valverde
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,985
    edited April 2021
    I wonder how much sway Specialized would have over whether he goes to the tour or not?

    I imagine for them, if the unimaginable happened, and he could win a stage or two, the press attention it would get would be enormous - and as a result for the entire team.
    Presumably if DQ are not going for the GC, then there could be a train of thought that says take the best lineup that could pick off the largest number of stages - perhaps they look at the parcours and find ones suitable for bennett, and ones more suitable for cav, with others up for debate 40-20k from home, depending on how their legs feel at the time.
    If one of them is definitely not targeting the stage, they can take it easy, and ride in the grupetto, conserving energy for the next targeted stage.
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