Chris Froome

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  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Der Kaiser wrote:
    Sebastian Reichenbach crashes the most IMO.

    The Reichenbach Falls?

    I'll get my gillet!
    :lol::lol:
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    phreak wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    phreak wrote:
    Denis Menchov was prone to crashing quite regularly I seem to recall. Sure he managed it once when going up hill, which was quite something.

    Yeah.

    Rarely hurt himself though.

    Did prompt a nice and induced rage at the end of the 2009 Giro though.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPt9tsnzXLc
    That was olive oil chucked on the slabs apparently. Fan sabotage.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    mididoctors wrote:
    phreak wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    phreak wrote:
    Denis Menchov was prone to crashing quite regularly I seem to recall. Sure he managed it once when going up hill, which was quite something.

    Yeah.

    Rarely hurt himself though.

    Did prompt a nice and induced rage at the end of the 2009 Giro though.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPt9tsnzXLc
    That was olive oil chucked on the slabs apparently. Fan sabotage.

    Mrs di Luca did a good job to be fair.
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    edited June 2019
    phreak wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    phreak wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    phreak wrote:
    Denis Menchov was prone to crashing quite regularly I seem to recall. Sure he managed it once when going up hill, which was quite something.

    Yeah.

    Rarely hurt himself though.

    Did prompt a nice and induced rage at the end of the 2009 Giro though.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPt9tsnzXLc
    That was olive oil chucked on the slabs apparently. Fan sabotage.

    Mrs di Luca did a good job to be fair.

    LOL that would be a classic, sadly its just because its wet

    Classic edition though Prime Cavendish and Pettachi, Di Luca on the CERA and Pelizzoti got busted too I think lolololol Those were the days
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    A google of Menchov and olive oil brings up.......this thread.
    _
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    :wink::wink::wink:

    Really well I never.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • huret
    huret Posts: 62
    I think Froome and Thomas crash a lot because they don't race enough. They're always training alone in controlled environments. They lack bike-handling skill that comes with regular racing in a peleton. I know Froome's last one was a TT recce, but it was caused by simple lack of bike-handling.
    Savoie between the Glandon and the Madeleine.
  • gethinceri
    gethinceri Posts: 1,659
    One is an Olympic medal winning track cyclist, the other is a seven time GT winner, both have spent many years cycling solo, in groups while training and racing in large pelotons. They lack bike handling skills?
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,557
    Huret wrote:
    I think Froome and Thomas crash a lot because they don't race enough. They're always training alone in controlled environments. They lack bike-handling skill that comes with regular racing in a peloton. I know Froome's last one was a TT recce, but it was caused by simple lack of bike-handling.

    How many crashes has Froome actually had?
    I recall this year's freak TT recon, last year's Giro TT warm up, clipping a low wall at the Vuelta, sliding out in the extreme wet on the Joux Plane descent at the Tour in 2016 (when he was far from the only one to crash), but getting straight back on his bike, and his crash(es) on the cobbled stage of the Tour in 2014.

    Have I missed loads more that justify the comments from the likes of Huret?
  • carbonclem
    carbonclem Posts: 1,784
    Dorset Boy wrote:
    Have I missed loads more that justify the comments from the likes of Huret?

    Go on Twitter and you will see the picture of him crashing into a marshall at his first Worlds TT. Everything is based on that, pretty much. :mrgreen:

    It also ignores the fact that the marshall walked right across him as he started the course, but hey ....
    2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner
  • craigus89
    craigus89 Posts: 887
    Dorset Boy wrote:
    Huret wrote:
    I think Froome and Thomas crash a lot because they don't race enough. They're always training alone in controlled environments. They lack bike-handling skill that comes with regular racing in a peloton. I know Froome's last one was a TT recce, but it was caused by simple lack of bike-handling.

    How many crashes has Froome actually had?
    I recall this year's freak TT recon, last year's Giro TT warm up, clipping a low wall at the Vuelta, sliding out in the extreme wet on the Joux Plane descent at the Tour in 2016 (when he was far from the only one to crash), but getting straight back on his bike, and his crash(es) on the cobbled stage of the Tour in 2014.

    Have I missed loads more that justify the comments from the likes of Huret?

    I remember him sliding out on an innocuous corner at the vuelta a couple of years ago, got straight back on but still.
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    Gethinceri wrote:
    One is an Olympic medal winning track cyclist, the other is a seven time GT winner, both have spent many years cycling solo, in groups while training and racing in large pelotons. They lack bike handling skills?
    they don't you know. one is a risk taker, the other unlucky.... or both unlucky...
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Dorset Boy wrote:
    Huret wrote:
    I think Froome and Thomas crash a lot because they don't race enough. They're always training alone in controlled environments. They lack bike-handling skill that comes with regular racing in a peloton. I know Froome's last one was a TT recce, but it was caused by simple lack of bike-handling.

    How many crashes has Froome actually had?
    I recall this year's freak TT recon, last year's Giro TT warm up, clipping a low wall at the Vuelta, sliding out in the extreme wet on the Joux Plane descent at the Tour in 2016 (when he was far from the only one to crash), but getting straight back on his bike, and his crash(es) on the cobbled stage of the Tour in 2014.

    Have I missed loads more that justify the comments from the likes of Huret?

    It's just yet another example of if people say it often enough it becomes a fact. Even if Froome is crashing regularly they plainly aren't bad as he doesn't lose time as a rule and hasn't quit a GT since that 2014 Tour. I think a lot of it comes from the fact that he looks awkward on a bike (there was that bit in 2012?? where he was struggling to do the riding in a line hands free with all his team mates) and I seem to recall him having a few crashes in Tirreno Adriatico the one season that may have started it though I could be imagining that.

    Geraint seems to crash more regularly but I can't recall many where it was his fault e.g. he got taken out by Barguil on the Col du Manse at the 2015 Tour. There was one season where he had a few along with several other Sky riders and people were questioning whether it was an equipment issue. You don't become a world class rider in mass start track events without being a decent bike handler.

    If you are racing in a group of 200 cyclists then you are going to spend a fair amount of time on the deck in your career, it's often impossible to avoid crashing and trying to do so often leads to even more people hitting the ground. Even Sagan has crashed a few times in the last couple of years and people rave about his bike handling.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    It's a shame that PCS doesn't record the numbers of crashes riders are involved in each season.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Dorset Boy wrote:
    Huret wrote:
    I think Froome and Thomas crash a lot because they don't race enough. They're always training alone in controlled environments. They lack bike-handling skill that comes with regular racing in a peloton. I know Froome's last one was a TT recce, but it was caused by simple lack of bike-handling.

    How many crashes has Froome actually had?
    I recall this year's freak TT recon, last year's Giro TT warm up, clipping a low wall at the Vuelta, sliding out in the extreme wet on the Joux Plane descent at the Tour in 2016 (when he was far from the only one to crash), but getting straight back on his bike, and his crash(es) on the cobbled stage of the Tour in 2014.

    Have I missed loads more that justify the comments from the likes of Huret?
    Others off the top of my head
    2014 Dauphine
    2013 Tour (stage 1 neutral zone)
    Tour of Colombia
    2017 Tour in the wet (remember the photo)
    2017 or 18 Tour - crashed into Moscon on cobbles
    2017 Vuelta on the stage I saw
    2018 Tour - bumped into a field by Kittel

    He's pretty robust though. He falls well.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    He did crash twice in 1 tour breaking a separate wrist in each one.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    RichN95 wrote:
    Dorset Boy wrote:
    Huret wrote:
    I think Froome and Thomas crash a lot because they don't race enough. They're always training alone in controlled environments. They lack bike-handling skill that comes with regular racing in a peloton. I know Froome's last one was a TT recce, but it was caused by simple lack of bike-handling.

    How many crashes has Froome actually had?
    I recall this year's freak TT recon, last year's Giro TT warm up, clipping a low wall at the Vuelta, sliding out in the extreme wet on the Joux Plane descent at the Tour in 2016 (when he was far from the only one to crash), but getting straight back on his bike, and his crash(es) on the cobbled stage of the Tour in 2014.

    Have I missed loads more that justify the comments from the likes of Huret?
    Others off the top of my head
    2014 Dauphine
    2013 Tour (stage 1 neutral zone)
    Tour of Colombia
    2017 Tour in the wet (remember the photo)
    2017 or 18 Tour - crashed into Moscon on cobbles
    2017 Vuelta on the stage I saw
    2018 Tour - bumped into a field by Kittel

    He's pretty robust though. He falls well.

    Which was the one with the superb photo? Was that the Moscon cobble crash?
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,652
    Pross wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Dorset Boy wrote:
    Huret wrote:
    I think Froome and Thomas crash a lot because they don't race enough. They're always training alone in controlled environments. They lack bike-handling skill that comes with regular racing in a peloton. I know Froome's last one was a TT recce, but it was caused by simple lack of bike-handling.

    How many crashes has Froome actually had?
    I recall this year's freak TT recon, last year's Giro TT warm up, clipping a low wall at the Vuelta, sliding out in the extreme wet on the Joux Plane descent at the Tour in 2016 (when he was far from the only one to crash), but getting straight back on his bike, and his crash(es) on the cobbled stage of the Tour in 2014.

    Have I missed loads more that justify the comments from the likes of Huret?
    Others off the top of my head
    2014 Dauphine
    2013 Tour (stage 1 neutral zone)
    Tour of Colombia
    2017 Tour in the wet (remember the photo)
    2017 or 18 Tour - crashed into Moscon on cobbles
    2017 Vuelta on the stage I saw
    2018 Tour - bumped into a field by Kittel

    He's pretty robust though. He falls well.

    Which was the one with the superb photo? Was that the Moscon cobble crash?
    There are two spectacular photos of Froome crashes

    One was on the cobbles:

    methode%2Fsundaytimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F77cf56fe-883c-11e8-89c3-034f5f14f286.jpg?crop=3198%2C1799%2C0%2C167

    The other a wet roundabout:

    Crash-Stage-2-2017-Tour-de-France.jpg

    Little he could do to avoid either of them.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,599
    Shirley Basso wrote:
    He did crash twice in 1 tour breaking a separate wrist in each one.

    The first was a europcar rider taking him out. The second was because he was riding with a broken wrist.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • ShutupJens
    ShutupJens Posts: 1,373
    Problem is there's context to be taking into account in all of these instances - How many of the listed crashes could you actually attribute to Froome? Also would getting tangled in the neutral zone have even been noticed if it wasn't Froome who it happened to?
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    You would need to go through the analysis for some other riders as well... ideally divide the number of race kilometres by the number of crashes so you get number of race kms per crash, then you could make some sensible comparisons.
  • ShutupJens
    ShutupJens Posts: 1,373
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    You would need to go through the analysis for some other riders as well... ideally divide the number of race kilometres by the number of crashes so you get number of race kms per crash, then you could make some sensible comparisons.

    Even then, what you going to do - blame G for the time that Barguil took him out, or Froome for the time that Contador decked it on the descent into Gap? There's far too many variables to make totting up numbers work as an accurate way of measuring bike handling skills
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    I dunno ..over a long time the stats must reflect something. A measure of the ability to see the crash coming .... Even if it's someone elses fault is it a measure of how good or bad someone is at making "the save" ? Froome and G and others are crashy. Even if it is freak bad luck sometimes.

    I would add that froome handles his bike better than 99.9% of all the neo mamils I encounter so it's somewhat relative.

    Edit: in effect I am saying froome isn't a bad cyclist so much as the many of the peloton are even better handlers than him.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    ShutupJens wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    You would need to go through the analysis for some other riders as well... ideally divide the number of race kilometres by the number of crashes so you get number of race kms per crash, then you could make some sensible comparisons.

    Even then, what you going to do - blame G for the time that Barguil took him out, or Froome for the time that Contador decked it on the descent into Gap? There's far too many variables to make totting up numbers work as an accurate way of measuring bike handling skills

    Yeah, as mididoctors says the benefit of looking over a long period of time it should mean something. It should also smooth out the random bad luck crashes a bit because you'll have less noise.

    I would suggest though that if someone is consistently getting taken out by other riders more than someone else it might say something about their bunch positioning and avoidance skills.
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    Colleague has had dozens of car accidents that weren't his fault. Lack of attention and failure to anticipate actions of others.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    gsk82 wrote:
    Shirley Basso wrote:
    He did crash twice in 1 tour breaking a separate wrist in each one.

    The first was a europcar rider taking him out. The second was because he was riding with a broken wrist.

    Yeah sorry I was mentioning them not blaming him.
  • ridgerider
    ridgerider Posts: 2,852
    edited July 2019
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    A google of Menchov and olive oil brings up.......this thread.
    Doesn't say much for his book on Mediterranean cooking...
    Half man, Half bike
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    D-jDVHCX4AAGjGA.jpg

    Froome looks better, but the Lion looks concerned he might get dropped.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    The lion is thinking "That looks like a Masonic sign to me. And why isn't there an IV tube in his hand?"
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,557
    Not forgetting he still (just about) has tan lines, so must be out riding his bike each day.

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