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Seemingly trivial things that intrigue you

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  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,231
    rjsterry said:

    morstar said:

    Pross said:

    morstar said:

    Oh come on have a bit of imagination. A fair number of people in a sport are going to not compete anymore for various reasons.

    If you report on sport that's worth reporting on, isn't it?

    Why the female angle though?
    It’s trying to bring in the disparity angle which dilutes the actual story that may or may not be worth reporting.

    To me it is a non-story. All sports have high attrition rates. If anything, fringe ones where there is less strength in depth have lower attrition rates as any half decent proponent can compete at a high level for much longer.
    Possibly because the male Welsh rugby internationals will be earning six figure salaries and having everything provided whilst the female internationals are, as I understand it from briefly catching the local news on TV this morning, effectively paying to play.

    That said, their performance in the Six Nations suggests they are still very much at an amateur level, even watching the top 2 teams France and England the other week it was poor. It's the same story as with many female sports (regularly debated regarding women's cycling in Pro Race) in that the product isn't attracting the money needed to improve the product.

    Exactly, I don’t accept the parity argument and think it’s a lazy default.

    Fully support parity in athletics and tennis and their ilk where there is comparable competition.

    And I’m not coming at this from a sexist angle. I actually think equality isn’t based on women just doing all the same sports as men with comparable coverage. True equality is the activities that have high female participation and competition getting exposure.
    Women’s rugby and football aren’t high quality.
    You don't think that that might partly be because the players have to train and play in their spare time. I appreciate that it's a slightly circular argument, but not wanting to fund a professional sport because it looks like amateur sport is guaranteed to maintain the status quo.

    Then there's also the question of whether sport's only value should be as entertainment.
    It isn't it's only value. But if you want people to pay for it, it does have to be entertaining.

    Widen the parity argument out a bit.

    Do professional rugby players complain because they aren't paid the same as premiership footballers?

    Why not. They are all dedicating their lives to it. Surely they should all be paid the same?
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 19,817

    Mr market economy here chipping in to say that he really does not understand why a commercial organisation should be made to pay the same in sponsorship for an inferior product.

    Should the shirt sponsors of Division 3 football teams pay the same as premier league ones?

    On the other hand, if you thought that you could turn the amateur game into 'better product' and in so doing reap some of the rewards, you might want to invest in that.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • morstarmorstar Posts: 4,339

    morstar said:

    True equality is the activities that have high female participation and competition getting exposure.

    So why the complaint about the story?
    1) Read the thread title. It’s trivial.
    2) I don’t think a few people dropping out of fringe sports is particularly noteworthy. Unless you believe in the argument that if the men’s version is fully professional and well funded, the women’s should automatically be regardless of quality, I don’t think the gender point is relevant.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 13,683
    rjsterry said:

    Mr market economy here chipping in to say that he really does not understand why a commercial organisation should be made to pay the same in sponsorship for an inferior product.

    Should the shirt sponsors of Division 3 football teams pay the same as premier league ones?

    On the other hand, if you thought that you could turn the amateur game into 'better product' and in so doing reap some of the rewards, you might want to invest in that.
    Agreed but that would involve the product owner successfully selling the vision to a hard nosed business or pointing out the sports-washing opportunity to dubious regimes with reputation for misogyny
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,231
    rjsterry said:

    Mr market economy here chipping in to say that he really does not understand why a commercial organisation should be made to pay the same in sponsorship for an inferior product.

    Should the shirt sponsors of Division 3 football teams pay the same as premier league ones?

    On the other hand, if you thought that you could turn the amateur game into 'better product' and in so doing reap some of the rewards, you might want to invest in that.
    Where there is money to be made it will happen. I think rugby is a bad example because even the men's game is turgid, but there are efforts to popularise women's football. There seems to be a natural ceiling though doesn't there. Why do you think that is? I don't think you'll be able to answer because you are too PC. Or you will say they need more help and keep pushing the fantasy.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 54,963 Lives Here
    edited 6 May
    morstar said:

    morstar said:

    True equality is the activities that have high female participation and competition getting exposure.

    So why the complaint about the story?
    1) Read the thread title. It’s trivial.
    2) I don’t think a few people dropping out of fringe sports is particularly noteworthy. Unless you believe in the argument that if the men’s version is fully professional and well funded, the women’s should automatically be regardless of quality, I don’t think the gender point is relevant.
    You don't need to believe in that argument to think that athletes leaving the game through lack of money and opportunity to train is worth reporting on.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 13,683
    morstar said:

    rjsterry said:

    morstar said:

    Pross said:

    morstar said:

    Oh come on have a bit of imagination. A fair number of people in a sport are going to not compete anymore for various reasons.

    If you report on sport that's worth reporting on, isn't it?

    Why the female angle though?
    It’s trying to bring in the disparity angle which dilutes the actual story that may or may not be worth reporting.

    To me it is a non-story. All sports have high attrition rates. If anything, fringe ones where there is less strength in depth have lower attrition rates as any half decent proponent can compete at a high level for much longer.
    Possibly because the male Welsh rugby internationals will be earning six figure salaries and having everything provided whilst the female internationals are, as I understand it from briefly catching the local news on TV this morning, effectively paying to play.

    That said, their performance in the Six Nations suggests they are still very much at an amateur level, even watching the top 2 teams France and England the other week it was poor. It's the same story as with many female sports (regularly debated regarding women's cycling in Pro Race) in that the product isn't attracting the money needed to improve the product.

    Exactly, I don’t accept the parity argument and think it’s a lazy default.

    Fully support parity in athletics and tennis and their ilk where there is comparable competition.

    And I’m not coming at this from a sexist angle. I actually think equality isn’t based on women just doing all the same sports as men with comparable coverage. True equality is the activities that have high female participation and competition getting exposure.
    Women’s rugby and football aren’t high quality.
    You don't think that that might partly be because the players have to train and play in their spare time. I appreciate that it's a slightly circular argument, but not wanting to fund a professional sport because it looks like amateur sport is guaranteed to maintain the status quo.

    Then there's also the question of whether sport's only value should be as entertainment.
    I agree it is circular. But for me, the foundations of a robust professional sport is a strong grass roots.

    Yes, grass roots benefits from exposure and aspiration but they last when they happen organically. Shoehorning pro sports in typically doesn’t work without a grass roots. See NFL Europe as just one of many examples.
    Grassroots certainly helps get an audience but why would you watch a 3rd rate product?

    Football clubs have tried exploiting fan loyalty by expanding their brand into other sports and it has not worked.

    Bizarrely I quite like watching women’s golf because I can relate to it more
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 19,817

    rjsterry said:

    Mr market economy here chipping in to say that he really does not understand why a commercial organisation should be made to pay the same in sponsorship for an inferior product.

    Should the shirt sponsors of Division 3 football teams pay the same as premier league ones?

    On the other hand, if you thought that you could turn the amateur game into 'better product' and in so doing reap some of the rewards, you might want to invest in that.
    Agreed but that would involve the product owner successfully selling the vision to a hard nosed business or pointing out the sports-washing opportunity to dubious regimes with reputation for misogyny
    Possibly, but I'm not sure the involvement of dubious regimes is a given. Why is selling the idea to a 'hard nosed' business a problem?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • morstarmorstar Posts: 4,339

    morstar said:

    rjsterry said:

    morstar said:

    Pross said:

    morstar said:

    Oh come on have a bit of imagination. A fair number of people in a sport are going to not compete anymore for various reasons.

    If you report on sport that's worth reporting on, isn't it?

    Why the female angle though?
    It’s trying to bring in the disparity angle which dilutes the actual story that may or may not be worth reporting.

    To me it is a non-story. All sports have high attrition rates. If anything, fringe ones where there is less strength in depth have lower attrition rates as any half decent proponent can compete at a high level for much longer.
    Possibly because the male Welsh rugby internationals will be earning six figure salaries and having everything provided whilst the female internationals are, as I understand it from briefly catching the local news on TV this morning, effectively paying to play.

    That said, their performance in the Six Nations suggests they are still very much at an amateur level, even watching the top 2 teams France and England the other week it was poor. It's the same story as with many female sports (regularly debated regarding women's cycling in Pro Race) in that the product isn't attracting the money needed to improve the product.

    Exactly, I don’t accept the parity argument and think it’s a lazy default.

    Fully support parity in athletics and tennis and their ilk where there is comparable competition.

    And I’m not coming at this from a sexist angle. I actually think equality isn’t based on women just doing all the same sports as men with comparable coverage. True equality is the activities that have high female participation and competition getting exposure.
    Women’s rugby and football aren’t high quality.
    You don't think that that might partly be because the players have to train and play in their spare time. I appreciate that it's a slightly circular argument, but not wanting to fund a professional sport because it looks like amateur sport is guaranteed to maintain the status quo.

    Then there's also the question of whether sport's only value should be as entertainment.
    I agree it is circular. But for me, the foundations of a robust professional sport is a strong grass roots.

    Yes, grass roots benefits from exposure and aspiration but they last when they happen organically. Shoehorning pro sports in typically doesn’t work without a grass roots. See NFL Europe as just one of many examples.
    Grassroots certainly helps get an audience but why would you watch a 3rd rate product?

    Football clubs have tried exploiting fan loyalty by expanding their brand into other sports and it has not worked.

    Bizarrely I quite like watching women’s golf because I can relate to it more
    We’re not disagreeing. The point re a strong grass roots is not about generating a natural fan base, it’s about strength in depth which is the foundation of elite (not professional) sport.

    Elite sport is easy to professionalise.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 13,683
    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Mr market economy here chipping in to say that he really does not understand why a commercial organisation should be made to pay the same in sponsorship for an inferior product.

    Should the shirt sponsors of Division 3 football teams pay the same as premier league ones?

    On the other hand, if you thought that you could turn the amateur game into 'better product' and in so doing reap some of the rewards, you might want to invest in that.
    Agreed but that would involve the product owner successfully selling the vision to a hard nosed business or pointing out the sports-washing opportunity to dubious regimes with reputation for misogyny
    Possibly, but I'm not sure the involvement of dubious regimes is a given. Why is selling the idea to a 'hard nosed' business a problem?
    Is that exactly what the current problem is?
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 19,817
    edited 6 May

    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Mr market economy here chipping in to say that he really does not understand why a commercial organisation should be made to pay the same in sponsorship for an inferior product.

    Should the shirt sponsors of Division 3 football teams pay the same as premier league ones?

    On the other hand, if you thought that you could turn the amateur game into 'better product' and in so doing reap some of the rewards, you might want to invest in that.
    Agreed but that would involve the product owner successfully selling the vision to a hard nosed business or pointing out the sports-washing opportunity to dubious regimes with reputation for misogyny
    Possibly, but I'm not sure the involvement of dubious regimes is a given. Why is selling the idea to a 'hard nosed' business a problem?
    Is that exactly what the current problem is?
    I would have thought that our theoretical sports entrepreneur needs to put some money in first to develop whichever sport it is to a level where they can then pitch it to media partners. If people can be persuaded to invest heavily in a loss making food delivery app, lifting the standard of an existing sport doesn't sound too much of stretch.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 13,683
    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Mr market economy here chipping in to say that he really does not understand why a commercial organisation should be made to pay the same in sponsorship for an inferior product.

    Should the shirt sponsors of Division 3 football teams pay the same as premier league ones?

    On the other hand, if you thought that you could turn the amateur game into 'better product' and in so doing reap some of the rewards, you might want to invest in that.
    Agreed but that would involve the product owner successfully selling the vision to a hard nosed business or pointing out the sports-washing opportunity to dubious regimes with reputation for misogyny
    Possibly, but I'm not sure the involvement of dubious regimes is a given. Why is selling the idea to a 'hard nosed' business a problem?
    Is that exactly what the current problem is?
    I would have thought that our theoretical sports entrepreneur needs to put some money in first to develop whichever sport it is to a level where they can then pitch it to media partners. If people can be persuaded to invest heavily in a loss making food delivery app, lifting the standard of an existing sport doesn't sound too much of stretch.
    But if you want to make money persuading mugs that they are buying into a cutting edge tech opportunity then there have to be easier targets than sport
  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 8,283
    Broadband providers and their renewal pricing tactics.

    Current provider indicated +86% increase over 'introductory' deal coming to end this month. Don't think so. Get quote from competitor. Phone up current provider on the 'going to leave' option. Immediately reduce renewal to +18% and then within 30 seconds price match competitor. Without me doing anything other than providing price comparison.

    How many mug punters just accept mega price hikes?
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 15,289
    orraloon said:

    Broadband providers and their renewal pricing tactics.

    Current provider indicated +86% increase over 'introductory' deal coming to end this month. Don't think so. Get quote from competitor. Phone up current provider on the 'going to leave' option. Immediately reduce renewal to +18% and then within 30 seconds price match competitor. Without me doing anything other than providing price comparison.

    How many mug punters just accept mega price hikes?

    My elderly neighbour is one even though I went through the process with him and showed how much he'd save he still remained.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,442
    Presume you then went to work reducing the price to below the competitor?
  • mrb123mrb123 Posts: 3,111
    If a bike had a saddle, not a seat, why does it have a seat post and not a saddle post?
  • pinnopinno Posts: 41,627
    edited 10 May
    mrb123 said:

    If a bike had a saddle, not a seat, why does it have a seat post and not a saddle post?

    Now why didn't I think of that? Ground breaking mrb.

    Why is there only 1 monopolies commission?
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 6,831
    Can you have decimal places in another number system than the decimal system?
  • ProssPross Posts: 27,132
    Why do people send work emails at ridiculous times? I received one this morning timed at 4.35am, I know everyone likes to try to make out they are working harder than others but do they think that impresses anyone?
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 6,831
    Pross said:

    Why do people send work emails at ridiculous times? I received one this morning timed at 4.35am, I know everyone likes to try to make out they are working harder than others but do they think that impresses anyone?


    Not being able to go back to sleep because you realised you'd meant to send the email the night before?
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 19,817

    Can you have decimal places in another number system than the decimal system?

    Yes. You'd just call them something else.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 6,831
    rjsterry said:

    Can you have decimal places in another number system than the decimal system?

    Yes. You'd just call them something else.

    But do they get called something else, or does 'decimal place' get used as the generic/default term?
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,231

    rjsterry said:

    Can you have decimal places in another number system than the decimal system?

    Yes. You'd just call them something else.

    But do they get called something else, or does 'decimal place' get used as the generic/default term?
    I think that anyone who actually considers this sort of thing would refer to it as ALT+46 to avoid any possibility of confusion.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 19,817

    rjsterry said:

    Can you have decimal places in another number system than the decimal system?

    Yes. You'd just call them something else.

    But do they get called something else, or does 'decimal place' get used as the generic/default term?
    I don't think it comes up much, as people don't use other base counting systems very much, but calling them decimal places when you are using base 2 would be nonsensical.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,231
    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Can you have decimal places in another number system than the decimal system?

    Yes. You'd just call them something else.

    But do they get called something else, or does 'decimal place' get used as the generic/default term?
    I don't think it comes up much, as people don't use other base counting systems very much, but calling them decimal places when you are using base 2 would be nonsensical.
    I think that was the genesis of the intrigue.
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 6,831

    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Can you have decimal places in another number system than the decimal system?

    Yes. You'd just call them something else.

    But do they get called something else, or does 'decimal place' get used as the generic/default term?
    I don't think it comes up much, as people don't use other base counting systems very much, but calling them decimal places when you are using base 2 would be nonsensical.
    I think that was the genesis of the intrigue.

    Correct
  • pinnopinno Posts: 41,627
    Alt + 46.
    Bit long winded.

    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,231
    pinno said:

    Alt + 46.
    Bit long winded.

    Precision comes at a price.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,231

    pinno said:

    Alt + 46.
    Bit long winded.


    I can't see the point
    This is beyond dreadful.
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