Seemingly trivial things that intrigue you
Comments
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It isn't it's only value. But if you want people to pay for it, it does have to be entertaining.rjsterry said:
You don't think that that might partly be because the players have to train and play in their spare time. I appreciate that it's a slightly circular argument, but not wanting to fund a professional sport because it looks like amateur sport is guaranteed to maintain the status quo.morstar said:
Exactly, I don’t accept the parity argument and think it’s a lazy default.Pross said:
Possibly because the male Welsh rugby internationals will be earning six figure salaries and having everything provided whilst the female internationals are, as I understand it from briefly catching the local news on TV this morning, effectively paying to play.morstar said:
Why the female angle though?rick_chasey said:Oh come on have a bit of imagination. A fair number of people in a sport are going to not compete anymore for various reasons.
If you report on sport that's worth reporting on, isn't it?
It’s trying to bring in the disparity angle which dilutes the actual story that may or may not be worth reporting.
To me it is a non-story. All sports have high attrition rates. If anything, fringe ones where there is less strength in depth have lower attrition rates as any half decent proponent can compete at a high level for much longer.
That said, their performance in the Six Nations suggests they are still very much at an amateur level, even watching the top 2 teams France and England the other week it was poor. It's the same story as with many female sports (regularly debated regarding women's cycling in Pro Race) in that the product isn't attracting the money needed to improve the product.
Fully support parity in athletics and tennis and their ilk where there is comparable competition.
And I’m not coming at this from a sexist angle. I actually think equality isn’t based on women just doing all the same sports as men with comparable coverage. True equality is the activities that have high female participation and competition getting exposure.
Women’s rugby and football aren’t high quality.
Then there's also the question of whether sport's only value should be as entertainment.
Widen the parity argument out a bit.
Do professional rugby players complain because they aren't paid the same as premiership footballers?
Why not. They are all dedicating their lives to it. Surely they should all be paid the same?0 -
On the other hand, if you thought that you could turn the amateur game into 'better product' and in so doing reap some of the rewards, you might want to invest in that.surrey_commuter said:Mr market economy here chipping in to say that he really does not understand why a commercial organisation should be made to pay the same in sponsorship for an inferior product.
Should the shirt sponsors of Division 3 football teams pay the same as premier league ones?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
1) Read the thread title. It’s trivial.rick_chasey said:
So why the complaint about the story?morstar said:True equality is the activities that have high female participation and competition getting exposure.
2) I don’t think a few people dropping out of fringe sports is particularly noteworthy. Unless you believe in the argument that if the men’s version is fully professional and well funded, the women’s should automatically be regardless of quality, I don’t think the gender point is relevant.1 -
Agreed but that would involve the product owner successfully selling the vision to a hard nosed business or pointing out the sports-washing opportunity to dubious regimes with reputation for misogynyrjsterry said:
On the other hand, if you thought that you could turn the amateur game into 'better product' and in so doing reap some of the rewards, you might want to invest in that.surrey_commuter said:Mr market economy here chipping in to say that he really does not understand why a commercial organisation should be made to pay the same in sponsorship for an inferior product.
Should the shirt sponsors of Division 3 football teams pay the same as premier league ones?0 -
Where there is money to be made it will happen. I think rugby is a bad example because even the men's game is turgid, but there are efforts to popularise women's football. There seems to be a natural ceiling though doesn't there. Why do you think that is? I don't think you'll be able to answer because you are too PC. Or you will say they need more help and keep pushing the fantasy.rjsterry said:
On the other hand, if you thought that you could turn the amateur game into 'better product' and in so doing reap some of the rewards, you might want to invest in that.surrey_commuter said:Mr market economy here chipping in to say that he really does not understand why a commercial organisation should be made to pay the same in sponsorship for an inferior product.
Should the shirt sponsors of Division 3 football teams pay the same as premier league ones?0 -
You don't need to believe in that argument to think that athletes leaving the game through lack of money and opportunity to train is worth reporting on.morstar said:
1) Read the thread title. It’s trivial.rick_chasey said:
So why the complaint about the story?morstar said:True equality is the activities that have high female participation and competition getting exposure.
2) I don’t think a few people dropping out of fringe sports is particularly noteworthy. Unless you believe in the argument that if the men’s version is fully professional and well funded, the women’s should automatically be regardless of quality, I don’t think the gender point is relevant.0 -
Grassroots certainly helps get an audience but why would you watch a 3rd rate product?morstar said:
I agree it is circular. But for me, the foundations of a robust professional sport is a strong grass roots.rjsterry said:
You don't think that that might partly be because the players have to train and play in their spare time. I appreciate that it's a slightly circular argument, but not wanting to fund a professional sport because it looks like amateur sport is guaranteed to maintain the status quo.morstar said:
Exactly, I don’t accept the parity argument and think it’s a lazy default.Pross said:
Possibly because the male Welsh rugby internationals will be earning six figure salaries and having everything provided whilst the female internationals are, as I understand it from briefly catching the local news on TV this morning, effectively paying to play.morstar said:
Why the female angle though?rick_chasey said:Oh come on have a bit of imagination. A fair number of people in a sport are going to not compete anymore for various reasons.
If you report on sport that's worth reporting on, isn't it?
It’s trying to bring in the disparity angle which dilutes the actual story that may or may not be worth reporting.
To me it is a non-story. All sports have high attrition rates. If anything, fringe ones where there is less strength in depth have lower attrition rates as any half decent proponent can compete at a high level for much longer.
That said, their performance in the Six Nations suggests they are still very much at an amateur level, even watching the top 2 teams France and England the other week it was poor. It's the same story as with many female sports (regularly debated regarding women's cycling in Pro Race) in that the product isn't attracting the money needed to improve the product.
Fully support parity in athletics and tennis and their ilk where there is comparable competition.
And I’m not coming at this from a sexist angle. I actually think equality isn’t based on women just doing all the same sports as men with comparable coverage. True equality is the activities that have high female participation and competition getting exposure.
Women’s rugby and football aren’t high quality.
Then there's also the question of whether sport's only value should be as entertainment.
Yes, grass roots benefits from exposure and aspiration but they last when they happen organically. Shoehorning pro sports in typically doesn’t work without a grass roots. See NFL Europe as just one of many examples.
Football clubs have tried exploiting fan loyalty by expanding their brand into other sports and it has not worked.
Bizarrely I quite like watching women’s golf because I can relate to it more0 -
Possibly, but I'm not sure the involvement of dubious regimes is a given. Why is selling the idea to a 'hard nosed' business a problem?surrey_commuter said:
Agreed but that would involve the product owner successfully selling the vision to a hard nosed business or pointing out the sports-washing opportunity to dubious regimes with reputation for misogynyrjsterry said:
On the other hand, if you thought that you could turn the amateur game into 'better product' and in so doing reap some of the rewards, you might want to invest in that.surrey_commuter said:Mr market economy here chipping in to say that he really does not understand why a commercial organisation should be made to pay the same in sponsorship for an inferior product.
Should the shirt sponsors of Division 3 football teams pay the same as premier league ones?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
We’re not disagreeing. The point re a strong grass roots is not about generating a natural fan base, it’s about strength in depth which is the foundation of elite (not professional) sport.surrey_commuter said:
Grassroots certainly helps get an audience but why would you watch a 3rd rate product?morstar said:
I agree it is circular. But for me, the foundations of a robust professional sport is a strong grass roots.rjsterry said:
You don't think that that might partly be because the players have to train and play in their spare time. I appreciate that it's a slightly circular argument, but not wanting to fund a professional sport because it looks like amateur sport is guaranteed to maintain the status quo.morstar said:
Exactly, I don’t accept the parity argument and think it’s a lazy default.Pross said:
Possibly because the male Welsh rugby internationals will be earning six figure salaries and having everything provided whilst the female internationals are, as I understand it from briefly catching the local news on TV this morning, effectively paying to play.morstar said:
Why the female angle though?rick_chasey said:Oh come on have a bit of imagination. A fair number of people in a sport are going to not compete anymore for various reasons.
If you report on sport that's worth reporting on, isn't it?
It’s trying to bring in the disparity angle which dilutes the actual story that may or may not be worth reporting.
To me it is a non-story. All sports have high attrition rates. If anything, fringe ones where there is less strength in depth have lower attrition rates as any half decent proponent can compete at a high level for much longer.
That said, their performance in the Six Nations suggests they are still very much at an amateur level, even watching the top 2 teams France and England the other week it was poor. It's the same story as with many female sports (regularly debated regarding women's cycling in Pro Race) in that the product isn't attracting the money needed to improve the product.
Fully support parity in athletics and tennis and their ilk where there is comparable competition.
And I’m not coming at this from a sexist angle. I actually think equality isn’t based on women just doing all the same sports as men with comparable coverage. True equality is the activities that have high female participation and competition getting exposure.
Women’s rugby and football aren’t high quality.
Then there's also the question of whether sport's only value should be as entertainment.
Yes, grass roots benefits from exposure and aspiration but they last when they happen organically. Shoehorning pro sports in typically doesn’t work without a grass roots. See NFL Europe as just one of many examples.
Football clubs have tried exploiting fan loyalty by expanding their brand into other sports and it has not worked.
Bizarrely I quite like watching women’s golf because I can relate to it more
Elite sport is easy to professionalise.0 -
Is that exactly what the current problem is?rjsterry said:
Possibly, but I'm not sure the involvement of dubious regimes is a given. Why is selling the idea to a 'hard nosed' business a problem?surrey_commuter said:
Agreed but that would involve the product owner successfully selling the vision to a hard nosed business or pointing out the sports-washing opportunity to dubious regimes with reputation for misogynyrjsterry said:
On the other hand, if you thought that you could turn the amateur game into 'better product' and in so doing reap some of the rewards, you might want to invest in that.surrey_commuter said:Mr market economy here chipping in to say that he really does not understand why a commercial organisation should be made to pay the same in sponsorship for an inferior product.
Should the shirt sponsors of Division 3 football teams pay the same as premier league ones?0 -
I would have thought that our theoretical sports entrepreneur needs to put some money in first to develop whichever sport it is to a level where they can then pitch it to media partners. If people can be persuaded to invest heavily in a loss making food delivery app, lifting the standard of an existing sport doesn't sound too much of stretch.surrey_commuter said:
Is that exactly what the current problem is?rjsterry said:
Possibly, but I'm not sure the involvement of dubious regimes is a given. Why is selling the idea to a 'hard nosed' business a problem?surrey_commuter said:
Agreed but that would involve the product owner successfully selling the vision to a hard nosed business or pointing out the sports-washing opportunity to dubious regimes with reputation for misogynyrjsterry said:
On the other hand, if you thought that you could turn the amateur game into 'better product' and in so doing reap some of the rewards, you might want to invest in that.surrey_commuter said:Mr market economy here chipping in to say that he really does not understand why a commercial organisation should be made to pay the same in sponsorship for an inferior product.
Should the shirt sponsors of Division 3 football teams pay the same as premier league ones?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
But if you want to make money persuading mugs that they are buying into a cutting edge tech opportunity then there have to be easier targets than sportrjsterry said:
I would have thought that our theoretical sports entrepreneur needs to put some money in first to develop whichever sport it is to a level where they can then pitch it to media partners. If people can be persuaded to invest heavily in a loss making food delivery app, lifting the standard of an existing sport doesn't sound too much of stretch.surrey_commuter said:
Is that exactly what the current problem is?rjsterry said:
Possibly, but I'm not sure the involvement of dubious regimes is a given. Why is selling the idea to a 'hard nosed' business a problem?surrey_commuter said:
Agreed but that would involve the product owner successfully selling the vision to a hard nosed business or pointing out the sports-washing opportunity to dubious regimes with reputation for misogynyrjsterry said:
On the other hand, if you thought that you could turn the amateur game into 'better product' and in so doing reap some of the rewards, you might want to invest in that.surrey_commuter said:Mr market economy here chipping in to say that he really does not understand why a commercial organisation should be made to pay the same in sponsorship for an inferior product.
Should the shirt sponsors of Division 3 football teams pay the same as premier league ones?0 -
Broadband providers and their renewal pricing tactics.
Current provider indicated +86% increase over 'introductory' deal coming to end this month. Don't think so. Get quote from competitor. Phone up current provider on the 'going to leave' option. Immediately reduce renewal to +18% and then within 30 seconds price match competitor. Without me doing anything other than providing price comparison.
How many mug punters just accept mega price hikes?0 -
My elderly neighbour is one even though I went through the process with him and showed how much he'd save he still remained.orraloon said:Broadband providers and their renewal pricing tactics.
Current provider indicated +86% increase over 'introductory' deal coming to end this month. Don't think so. Get quote from competitor. Phone up current provider on the 'going to leave' option. Immediately reduce renewal to +18% and then within 30 seconds price match competitor. Without me doing anything other than providing price comparison.
How many mug punters just accept mega price hikes?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Presume you then went to work reducing the price to below the competitor?0
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If a bike had a saddle, not a seat, why does it have a seat post and not a saddle post?1
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Can you have decimal places in another number system than the decimal system?0
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Why do people send work emails at ridiculous times? I received one this morning timed at 4.35am, I know everyone likes to try to make out they are working harder than others but do they think that impresses anyone?0
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Pross said:
Why do people send work emails at ridiculous times? I received one this morning timed at 4.35am, I know everyone likes to try to make out they are working harder than others but do they think that impresses anyone?
Not being able to go back to sleep because you realised you'd meant to send the email the night before?0 -
Yes. You'd just call them something else.briantrumpet said:Can you have decimal places in another number system than the decimal system?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
rjsterry said:
Yes. You'd just call them something else.briantrumpet said:Can you have decimal places in another number system than the decimal system?
But do they get called something else, or does 'decimal place' get used as the generic/default term?0 -
I think that anyone who actually considers this sort of thing would refer to it as ALT+46 to avoid any possibility of confusion.briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:
Yes. You'd just call them something else.briantrumpet said:Can you have decimal places in another number system than the decimal system?
But do they get called something else, or does 'decimal place' get used as the generic/default term?0 -
I don't think it comes up much, as people don't use other base counting systems very much, but calling them decimal places when you are using base 2 would be nonsensical.briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:
Yes. You'd just call them something else.briantrumpet said:Can you have decimal places in another number system than the decimal system?
But do they get called something else, or does 'decimal place' get used as the generic/default term?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I think that was the genesis of the intrigue.rjsterry said:
I don't think it comes up much, as people don't use other base counting systems very much, but calling them decimal places when you are using base 2 would be nonsensical.briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:
Yes. You'd just call them something else.briantrumpet said:Can you have decimal places in another number system than the decimal system?
But do they get called something else, or does 'decimal place' get used as the generic/default term?
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First.Aspect said:
I think that was the genesis of the intrigue.rjsterry said:
I don't think it comes up much, as people don't use other base counting systems very much, but calling them decimal places when you are using base 2 would be nonsensical.briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:
Yes. You'd just call them something else.briantrumpet said:Can you have decimal places in another number system than the decimal system?
But do they get called something else, or does 'decimal place' get used as the generic/default term?
Correct0 -
Alt + 46.
Bit long winded.
seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Precision comes at a price.pinno said:Alt + 46.
Bit long winded.
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pinno said:
Alt + 46.
Bit long winded.
I can't see the point1 -
This is beyond dreadful.briantrumpet said:0