**Paris - Roubaix 2019** **Spoiler Thread**

No_Ta_Doctor

sherer wrote:

Well done to Gilbert can't see him doing MSR but anything is possible

Problem with MSR are the riders ahead of him for that race at QS. He bit a huge amount of work for Alaphilippe this year.

m.r.m.

He will attack with 100% certainty on the (Cipressa or) Poggio next year and try for the victory.

blazing_saddles

Shamelessly pinched from VR, but how's this for a story?

Last year:

https://twitter.com/laflammerouge16/sta ... 4666336256

This year...........

fleshtuxedo

A good watch that!

Was rooting for Pollitt at the end, thought he needed to be prepared to block Gilbert when he dropped down the banking.

He was probably too f**ked though to be fair.

tailwindhome

TailWindHome wrote:

Sunday plans-
Paris Roubaix?
US Masters?
Chelsea v Liverpool?

Nope. I'd previously committed to driving eldest child and 3 of her mates to Dublin for a Shawn Mendes gig.
(No. I've no idea who he is either)

Kids eh?

argyllflyer

FleshTuxedo wrote:

A good watch that!

Was rooting for Pollitt at the end, thought he needed to be prepared to block Gilbert when he dropped down the banking.

He was probably too f**ked though to be fair.

Winning races is not really his speciality though, especially against a one day king like PG. 4 in total going back to U23, and including German national races.

rozzer32

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/van-avermaet-i-wasnt-awake-at-critical-moment-in-paris-roubaix/

Stating the obvious. I’ll say it now, GVA won’t win another monument/big classic. Hasn’t got the team or the tactical mind.

pinno

rozzer32 wrote:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/van-avermaet-i-wasnt-awake-at-critical-moment-in-paris-roubaix/

Stating the obvious. I’ll say it now, GVA won’t win another monument/big classic. Hasn’t got the team or the tactical mind.

I made that point:

viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=13103814#p20490801

m.r.m.

Sagan and GVA are two peas in a pod. Sagan just usually has world beater legs and can brute force everything.

pinno

Aah but Sagan got in the right break and he does this regularly.

ShutupJens

Pinno wrote:

Aah but Sagan got on the right break and he does this regularly.

Yep. GvA looked like Sagan in 2014, only that lad was 23 not a rider in his prime. CCC kit stands out, as much due to the colour with 70km when there's numbers in the front group, whereas in the late stages it stands out because you don't need the gold helmet to identify Greg. He's the only one left

RichN95.

Pinno wrote:

Aah but Sagan got in the right break and he does this regularly.

But they often become the right break due to him being in it. Whenever he attacks or chases, several big hitters are sure to follow.

pinno

RichN95 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Aah but Sagan got in the right break and he does this regularly.

But they often become the right break due to him being in it. Whenever he attacks or chases, several big hitters are sure to follow.

Whereas, when GVA attacks, there's a queue of guys latching on for a free ride? Ha ha.

RichN95.

Pinno wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Aah but Sagan got in the right break and he does this regularly.

But they often become the right break due to him being in it. Whenever he attacks or chases, several big hitters are sure to follow.

Whereas, when GVA attacks, there's a queue of guys latching on for a free ride? Ha ha.

Sagan spent three years wearing a very distinct jersey and still doesn't wear a regular Bora jersey. It makes him easy to spot in a 30+ group of riders.

pinno

Wasn't what I was saying.
Are you saying Sagan, despite his rainbow jersey/national champions jersey has won some big races or are you saying that being a 'marked man' is a hindrance? The former, in Sagan's case, contradicts the latter.
I see. Khaki. That's what GVA needs to wear. Or bottom half tarmac print, top half fields.
I doubt it would make a difference.

awavey

surely Sagan what ever he is wearing is easy to spot, weve often complained in these threads Im sure that its not the riders havent spotted him, its that they havent spotted the right move and gone with him, I dont think Ive ever seen a race in recent years, where he has been given the 'marked man' status in the peloton where everyone latches onto everything he does, I dont know why, but there must be a reason beyond he just bulldozers those moves and no one can react,and that he always ends up in the final selection with no one able to follow him. I mean surely there must be a team and a DS who just say follow Sagan, end of story, but they dont.

RichN95.

Pinno wrote:

Wasn't what I was saying.
Are you saying Sagan, despite his rainbow jersey/national champions jersey has won some big races or are you saying that being a 'marked man' is a hindrance? The former, in Sagan's case, contradicts the latter.
I see. Khaki. That's what GVA needs to wear. Or bottom half tarmac print, top half fields.
I doubt it would make a difference.

Both Sagan and GVA tend to get in the right breaks. Any break they are in gains credibility. If big hitters follow it gains more credibility. Sagan will get more following as he's easy to spot, and he's also more proactive.
You are presenting him being in the right breaks as being some sort of tactical nous, but if someone like Luke Rowe makes the exact same moves instead, those breaks fail.

RichN95.

awavey wrote:

I dont think Ive ever seen a race in recent years, where he has been given the 'marked man' status in the peloton where everyone latches onto everything he does

It happens all the time. He complains about it all the time.

m.r.m.

Pinno wrote:

Aah but Sagan got in the right break and he does this regularly.

If you take the Doha Worlds for example, Sagan basically missed the decisive split; only his otherworldly punch let him cross the gap in crosswinds (as the very last rider) and then be there in the finale. He is able to recover from tactical mistakes regularly due to his talent/power/punch where others simply cannot.
Whenever his legs actually do fail to make up for the frequent tactical mistakes, he comes in second because he is often still that good on his bad days. You can see his riding in the MSR Gerald Ciolek won as a very good example of this (among many others).

A truly great rider is able to win when he doesn't have the strongest legs in the race. Sagan wins because he usually has the strongest legs in the race.

He is undoubtedly great, but usually not because of tactics or racecraft. Still like him a lot, but he hasn't progressed much from his early days.

richard_t._biscuit

I think it's easy to underestimate the tactical value of having the best legs in the race.

You see a high profile rider like Sagan making the tactical error of covering attacks himself and not having anything left in the final, then you see a rider like GVA making the tactical error of not covering the same attacks and missing out...

But then you see Gilbert and Politt, who actually made most of the repeated solo attacks everyone else had to cover and ultimately didn't have the legs to follow (see above), being hailed as tactically brilliant...

thegreatdivide

Sep Vanmarcke had to ride 10k in the 11 sprocket until the team could get him a new bike. The rear mech had given up after an earlier tumble.

specialgueststar

thegreatdivide wrote:

Sep Vanmarcke had to ride 10k in the 11 sprocket until the team could get him a new bike. The rear mech had given up after an earlier tumble.

And we know how much Sep hates twiddling a little gear

DeVlaeminck

No tA Doctor wrote:

sherer wrote:

Well done to Gilbert can't see him doing MSR but anything is possible

Problem with MSR are the riders ahead of him for that race at QS. He bit a huge amount of work for Alaphilippe this year.

There was a season or two when he might have had the punch to open up enough of a gap at the top of the Poggio to bring it home especially with a team mate to mark any chase but I don't see it happening now either.

What a great signing though - when you think he went there his career was in the doldrums and he was - maybe is - on a heavily performance related contract.

Just re. Sagan I don't see him as tactically naive, maybe his team need to review their tactics to play a second card but Sagan's decisions in the finale to races like yesterday always seem fairly sound - if you make the final split but other teams have a couple of strong riders in there you ate up against it.

gweeds

Gilbert is nearly 37 now. I wouldn't be surprised to see him have one more crack at MSR and the Spring classics and then call it a day.

rozzer32

DeVlaeminck wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

sherer wrote:

Well done to Gilbert can't see him doing MSR but anything is possible

Problem with MSR are the riders ahead of him for that race at QS. He bit a huge amount of work for Alaphilippe this year.

There was a season or two when he might have had the punch to open up enough of a gap at the top of the Poggio to bring it home especially with a team mate to mark any chase but I don't see it happening now either.

What a great signing though - when you think he went there his career was in the doldrums and he was - maybe is - on a heavily performance related contract.

Just re. Sagan I don't see him as tactically naive, maybe his team need to review their tactics to play a second card but Sagan's decisions in the finale to races like yesterday always seem fairly sound - if you make the final split but other teams have a couple of strong riders in there you ate up against it.

Yes it does seem quite the turnaround. Although if you look at the QS team doctors then maybe not hard to understand. Gilberts 60Km Flanders solo is the most "unbelievable" ride in my eyes.

nickice

Team Sky must be disappointed. And Stannard has gone from being a double winner of Omloop with a P-R podium to a fourth-tier classics rider.

This is the first year for a long time that I didn't go to the race. I'm coming to the conlusion that actually being there is overrated.

philbar72

The one moment that stood out for me was Pollitt launching his final attack that looked like it distanced everyone then gilbert defiantly smashing the cranks and just about bridging across. I honestly think Pollitt could maybe have soloed, such was his relative form. Those teeth though!

Worthy winner though.

inseine

Great result by Evaldas Siskevicius in 9th. Best result of his career by far and top result for a Pro conti team.

salsiccia1

inseine wrote:

Great result by Evaldas Siskevicius in 9th. Best result of his career by far and top result for a Pro conti team.

Had to get them to re-open the gates to the Velodrome last year so he could finish, don't forget. Brilliant stuff.

pinno

Richard T. Biscuit wrote:

I think it's easy to underestimate the tactical value of having the best legs in the race.

You see a high profile rider like Sagan making the tactical error of covering attacks himself and not having anything left in the final, then you see a rider like GVA making the tactical error of not covering the same attacks and missing out...

But then you see Gilbert and Politt, who actually made most of the repeated solo attacks everyone else had to cover and ultimately didn't have the legs to follow (see above), being hailed as tactically brilliant...

This is all a bit harsh. I think it is much harder in the modern era (training/fitness/diet/race radios) for riders to 'dominate' (that's relative in itself).

No one has mentioned that Sagan has repeatedly found himself in teams that can't seem to control things for very long and don't get the riders into the right position.
Yesterday, D-QS had 2 riders in the break. That made the odds with Politt and Gilbert stacked in Gilbert's favour.
So often, Sagan has to go solo and can win sprints, (sometimes uphill, sometimes on the flat) with no train or lead out man.
Take the back up away from D-QS, Sky etc from individually talented riders and what have you got?
There has not been a D-QS race won this year that has not had very significant impact or has been wholly responsible for the win without the team.

Sagan come's back from illness and he's 98%, has a not so good day (by his standards) but still gets in the right break and has been there or thereabouts all through the classics, despite the illness, despite Bora not being able to control matters.

Besides, you can't always be in the right break. It's not humanly possible. No one has superhuman legs that they don't have to conserve energy at the right time and sit in the right part of the bunch and let certain attacks go and jump on others/be a contributor. It's not always about what happens in the final.
The ability to do that requires either strong teams, belligerent DS's or individuals that have the ability to read the mood of the peloton and be in the right place at the right time.

Sagan is a living legend and I just do not know what a man has to do to not be on the receiving end of such criticism.