Six Nations 2018

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Comments

  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,996
    There does seem to be a shortcut to being eligible for any rugby side not just England.
    Are Felatau and the Vunipolas not cousins?
    Remember Shane Howarth and what about Brendan Laney being almost spirited from his Air NZ flight straight to Murrayfield.
    That's before we start looking at S Sea Islanders in Oz and NZ.
    Bachop playing for Japan?
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Ballysmate wrote:
    There does seem to be a shortcut to being eligible for any rugby side not just England.
    Are Felatau and the Vunipolas not cousins?
    Remember Shane Howarth and what about Brendan Laney being almost spirited from his Air NZ flight straight to Murrayfield.
    That's before we start looking at S Sea Islanders in Oz and NZ.
    Bachop playing for Japan?
    True. It started to get a bit ridiculous a long time ago. But I suppose what gets me is when a country with over 130,000 registered senior male players is poaching from ones with less than a tenth of that number. Here's a list of registered senior males from Wikipedia:

    England 131399
    France 124079
    South Africa 113174
    United States 50211
    Japan 48470
    Australia 39380
    New Zealand 27726
    Ireland 25440
    Malaysia 25000
    Wales 22408
    Madagascar 16750
    Italy 15848
    Scotland 11687
    Spain 9588
    Canada 9032
    Fiji 8000
    Samoa 7690
    Kenya 6772
    Thailand 5716
    Brazil 5541
    Chile 4830
    Germany 4639

    (stats appeared to be missing from Argentina, they have a large total number of players but no figure for senior males. And Georgia appear to have a tiny number of players. But not, of course, a number of tiny players)


    You certainly can't blame the players: whether money, the chance to play for a better team, or even just the chance to get in an international side when they couldn't make it at home (I'm looking at you, kilted Kiwis ;-)), they're entitled to try it.

    It just sticks in the craw a bit.


    EDIT: Madagascar???!!!
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    bompington wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    teams rely on slightly dubious residency or ancestral links to put out a team.
    I, for one, am a bit surprised how many pacific islanders seem to have uncovered English ancestry ;-)

    To be fair both the Vunipolas were raised in, erm, Wales (along with their cousin, Faletau)! Their father and Faletau's father were among a load of Islanders that came over to play rugby in Wales when the game first went professional.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,996
    The Saffers don't tend to poach so if you play SA you are playing SA.
    Mind you they have other issues such as dealing with quotas.
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    bompington wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    teams rely on slightly dubious residency or ancestral links to put out a team.
    I, for one, am a bit surprised how many pacific islanders seem to have uncovered English ancestry ;-)
    Like Felatau? Sorry English ancestry. OK. Didn't the vunipola brothers nearly play for Wales or played in a youth squad? Ditto for tuilagi?

    There's dubious ancestry in a lot of rugby nations so focusing on one is not exactly being honest. Surely you should raise dubious ancestry across the various nations.

    Then there's the round ball game. I always wondered why Giggs played for Wales when he had a much claim to English ancestry and even played in the English youth setup I believe
  • Tashman
    Tashman Posts: 3,497
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    teams rely on slightly dubious residency or ancestral links to put out a team.
    I, for one, am a bit surprised how many pacific islanders seem to have uncovered English ancestry ;-)
    Like Felatau? Sorry English ancestry. OK. Didn't the vunipola brothers nearly play for Wales or played in a youth squad? Ditto for tuilagi?

    There's dubious ancestry in a lot of rugby nations so focusing on one is not exactly being honest. Surely you should raise dubious ancestry across the various nations.

    Then there's the round ball game. I always wondered why Giggs played for Wales when he had a much claim to English ancestry and even played in the English youth setup I believe
    I always thought the Giggs thing revolved around his parents. English dad, Welsh mum. Dad pi55ed him off so he aligned to Wales. May be an over simplification or urban myth but that was my understanding.
  • Tashman
    Tashman Posts: 3,497
    I always wondered who I would be eligible for. I was born in a British Military Hospital in Berlin. Would that allow me to play for any home nation as I was not specifically English/Welsh/Scottish/Irish? I also had an American grandfather just to muddy the waters further
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    Tashman wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    teams rely on slightly dubious residency or ancestral links to put out a team.
    I, for one, am a bit surprised how many pacific islanders seem to have uncovered English ancestry ;-)
    Like Felatau? Sorry English ancestry. OK. Didn't the vunipola brothers nearly play for Wales or played in a youth squad? Ditto for tuilagi?

    There's dubious ancestry in a lot of rugby nations so focusing on one is not exactly being honest. Surely you should raise dubious ancestry across the various nations.

    Then there's the round ball game. I always wondered why Giggs played for Wales when he had a much claim to English ancestry and even played in the English youth setup I believe
    I always thought the Giggs thing revolved around his parents. English dad, Welsh mum. Dad pi55ed him off so he aligned to Wales. May be an over simplification or urban myth but that was my understanding.

    It's neither, just plain wrong. His dad was Welsh, he played rugby in Wales then went north for the money as many did back then but also played league for Wales. Giggs was born in Wales but moved up north as a kid. The English connection was only ever that he played for England schoolboys (as he went to school in England, it's nothing to do with nationality).
  • Tashman
    Tashman Posts: 3,497
    Pross wrote:
    Tashman wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    teams rely on slightly dubious residency or ancestral links to put out a team.
    I, for one, am a bit surprised how many pacific islanders seem to have uncovered English ancestry ;-)
    Like Felatau? Sorry English ancestry. OK. Didn't the vunipola brothers nearly play for Wales or played in a youth squad? Ditto for tuilagi?

    There's dubious ancestry in a lot of rugby nations so focusing on one is not exactly being honest. Surely you should raise dubious ancestry across the various nations.

    Then there's the round ball game. I always wondered why Giggs played for Wales when he had a much claim to English ancestry and even played in the English youth setup I believe
    I always thought the Giggs thing revolved around his parents. English dad, Welsh mum. Dad pi55ed him off so he aligned to Wales. May be an over simplification or urban myth but that was my understanding.

    It's neither, just plain wrong. His dad was Welsh, he played rugby in Wales then went north for the money as many did back then but also played league for Wales. Giggs was born in Wales but moved up north as a kid. The English connection was only ever that he played for England schoolboys (as he went to school in England, it's nothing to do with nationality).
    Ah OK, not the first time I've ever been wrong on something :D
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    teams rely on slightly dubious residency or ancestral links to put out a team.
    I, for one, am a bit surprised how many pacific islanders seem to have uncovered English ancestry ;-)
    Like Felatau? Sorry English ancestry. OK. Didn't the vunipola brothers nearly play for Wales or played in a youth squad? Ditto for tuilagi?

    There's dubious ancestry in a lot of rugby nations so focusing on one is not exactly being honest. Surely you should raise dubious ancestry across the various nations.

    Then there's the round ball game. I always wondered why Giggs played for Wales when he had a much claim to English ancestry and even played in the English youth setup I believe

    As above, the Vunipola brothers were raised in Wales (Pontypool) from a very young age along with their cousin Taulupe Felatau whose brother played quite a few season for Pontypool at prop (he was a useless scrummager and I always felt he'd have been better if he'd played back row and had been less lazy!). Given that they had all spent all but their very early years living in the UK (the Vunipolas moved across the bridge as teens I believe) I would say their qualification by residency is perfectly justifiable.

    Tuilaigi is slightly different, I think he and his brothers came over when they were older (Manu was in his teens when he came over to join his older brothers and almost got deported after staying 6 years on a tourist visa). He did play youth rugby in Cardiff while his brother was playing for Cardiff but not for long and they have all been mainly Leicester based. I also think England have better options than him and never understood why people are so pleased when he becomes available for selection after his numerous injuries.

    As for Giggs, that's been covered above.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    How do the cards have to fall for england to win 6N overall, or Ireland?
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    Shirley Basso wrote:
    How do the cards have to fall for england to win 6N overall, or Ireland?

    If England win and Wales lose they'll take the title unless they fail to secure a bonus point and Ireland manage to get one and totally demolish Wales. Basically, Ireland's only chance is to win and hope England lose.
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Pross wrote:
    Shirley Basso wrote:
    How do the cards have to fall for england to win 6N overall, or Ireland?

    If England win and Wales lose they'll take the title unless they fail to secure a bonus point and Ireland manage to get one and totally demolish Wales. Basically, Ireland's only chance is to win and hope England lose.

    Makes for a potentially good afternoon of sport
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Tashman wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    teams rely on slightly dubious residency or ancestral links to put out a team.
    I, for one, am a bit surprised how many pacific islanders seem to have uncovered English ancestry ;-)
    Like Felatau? Sorry English ancestry. OK. Didn't the vunipola brothers nearly play for Wales or played in a youth squad? Ditto for tuilagi?

    There's dubious ancestry in a lot of rugby nations so focusing on one is not exactly being honest. Surely you should raise dubious ancestry across the various nations.

    Then there's the round ball game. I always wondered why Giggs played for Wales when he had a much claim to English ancestry and even played in the English youth setup I believe
    I always thought the Giggs thing revolved around his parents. English dad, Welsh mum. Dad pi55ed him off so he aligned to Wales. May be an over simplification or urban myth but that was my understanding.
    Whatever the reason England really needed his left foot in those years I believe. I read somewhere that England really struggled to find a world class player in his position and Giggs was just what they needed, if he was eligible to play for England.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Tashman wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    teams rely on slightly dubious residency or ancestral links to put out a team.
    I, for one, am a bit surprised how many pacific islanders seem to have uncovered English ancestry ;-)
    Like Felatau? Sorry English ancestry. OK. Didn't the vunipola brothers nearly play for Wales or played in a youth squad? Ditto for tuilagi?

    There's dubious ancestry in a lot of rugby nations so focusing on one is not exactly being honest. Surely you should raise dubious ancestry across the various nations.

    Then there's the round ball game. I always wondered why Giggs played for Wales when he had a much claim to English ancestry and even played in the English youth setup I believe
    I always thought the Giggs thing revolved around his parents. English dad, Welsh mum. Dad pi55ed him off so he aligned to Wales. May be an over simplification or urban myth but that was my understanding.
    Whatever the reason England really needed his left foot in those years I believe. I read somewhere that England really struggled to find a world class player in his position and Giggs was just what they needed, was eligible to play for England but just didn't want to.

    Yep, mainly because he wasn't English and didn't feel English. I think he took a brave decision, he could have played the system and had more to his name at international level.
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Pross wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Tashman wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    teams rely on slightly dubious residency or ancestral links to put out a team.
    I, for one, am a bit surprised how many pacific islanders seem to have uncovered English ancestry ;-)
    Like Felatau? Sorry English ancestry. OK. Didn't the vunipola brothers nearly play for Wales or played in a youth squad? Ditto for tuilagi?

    There's dubious ancestry in a lot of rugby nations so focusing on one is not exactly being honest. Surely you should raise dubious ancestry across the various nations.

    Then there's the round ball game. I always wondered why Giggs played for Wales when he had a much claim to English ancestry and even played in the English youth setup I believe
    I always thought the Giggs thing revolved around his parents. English dad, Welsh mum. Dad pi55ed him off so he aligned to Wales. May be an over simplification or urban myth but that was my understanding.
    Whatever the reason England really needed his left foot in those years I believe. I read somewhere that England really struggled to find a world class player in his position and Giggs was just what they needed, was eligible to play for England but just didn't want to.

    Yep, mainly because he wasn't English and didn't feel English. I think he took a brave decision, he could have played the system and had more to his name at international level.
  • crispybug2
    crispybug2 Posts: 2,915
    Italy vs France has been a bit meh so far

    But I think it’s because both teams realise that it’s a nothing match before the main events
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    Italy yet again letting a potential victory slip away. They're 90% there but just can't quite do what's needed to win a few.
  • crispybug2
    crispybug2 Posts: 2,915
    Pross wrote:
    Italy yet again letting a potential victory slip away. They're 90% there but just can't quite do what's needed to win a few.


    Italy should have won by twelve points at least, England, Wales and Ireland would have!!


    Anyway now for the main course.
  • crispybug2
    crispybug2 Posts: 2,915
    What a start for Wales!
  • crispybug2
    crispybug2 Posts: 2,915
    Wales are winning the fine margins here
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,717
    How do you say choke in gaelic?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • crispybug2
    crispybug2 Posts: 2,915
    Wales 16-0 Ireland ht

    I think that it’s already game over
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    Yeah, Ireland going out with a whimper.

    Wales definitely seem to have the knack of making their big rivals look very ordinary.
  • crispybug2
    crispybug2 Posts: 2,915
    Well that was far far more one sided than I think anyone expected
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    Final score flattered Ireland in the end. They were dire. Not much point in demanding the roof is left open if you can't play in those conditions. Wales defence was immense.
  • crispybug2
    crispybug2 Posts: 2,915
    England score in the first two minutes yet again!
  • crispybug2
    crispybug2 Posts: 2,915
    England 14-0 after just ten minutes
  • crispybug2
    crispybug2 Posts: 2,915
    21-0 after fifteen minutes

    I think we can already say it’s game over!!


    One thing is for certain the difference between the top three and the bottom three of the six nations is absolutely massive!
  • crispybug2
    crispybug2 Posts: 2,915
    Another try for England, the sleight of hand by Slade was exquisite!

    This could get very embarrassing for Scotland

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